Help get a lax noob up to speed...

[A Clockwork Orange]

I have always followed 'Cuse lax in a casual way. That's to say I follow the box scores and pay attention come tournament time. With the trainwreck that is the Syracuse basketball team this year, I'm looking to up my rooting interest this season. So I have some questions about what I should know about this team and about the culture of the program right now.

• Gary Gait. The MJ of lacrosse, but it sounds as if there is a little bit of a split on him on the board. Since he was hired what are your thoughts?
  • Recruiting: How is he doing out there? Does his name help? Are you pleased with what he's doing?
• Petro. Again - it seems there's some split here. Some believe the game has passed him by, others think he's a great hire.
• Give me your thoughts on where the team is, storylines I should know, players I should follow, etc... If you had a friend that was interested in getting into SU lax, what are your primer notes going into this season?

Thanks all!

​

 

[orange79]

You will find no good information in this post. I have been a fan since I went to Syracuse (JB's first year as HC was my first year). I have picked up a lot in that time (how could I not in that amount of time?), but I am also a relative noob compared to JeremyCuse, Powellfan, wgdsr, Zack80, etc., and many other super-knowledgeable lax posters (apologies to all those I omitted). So there won't be any X's and O's here.

I was one of the few who was skeptical about the GG hire. Easy to find, I was (and still am, I guess) concerned about his not being involved on a day-to-day basis with the men's game for almost 15 years. I hope I'm wrong, and he kills it here. His name certainly can't hurt vis a vis recruiting.

Petro, for me, was a home run hire. Name, record, etc. should be a + in game-planning and recruiting.

Take everything above with a grain of salt.

 

[CuseAlum87]

Players to watch on offense are: Owen Hiltz who, as a true freshman scored 29 goals and 19 assists. Brendan Curry all american midfielder, Tucker Dordevic reportedly moving to attack from midfield where he had 23 goals last season, Owen Seebold, you want to watch his development at attack--he moved to attack from 2nd midfield for last 4 games and scored 10 goals and 4 assists in those games. He finished with 18 goals and 8 assists. Continued progress of Lucas Quinn who had 10 goals playing 2nd midfield. Jake Buttermore a midfielder who was hampered by injury last season only took 6 shots in 8 games. His return to form, 20 goals in 2019, is one of the story lines I will be watching because he can shoot it from outside with either hand.

 

[JustSayin]

I'm no expert on pretty much anything, but have played, coached and ref'ed at the high school level, so I'm dangerous at best. I have worked for the university for a bunch of years and can tell you that I have met and worked with Gait about getting his women recruits interested in our academic programs. I have to admit I love his interest and passion in academics. So, I am thrilled with is appointment as the men's head coach. How will this translate on the field? I have no idea. As for Coach Petro? I have watched him play and coach, he has very impressive acomplishments. I think he was a great hire. Will he stay at SU to make an major impact? God, I hope so. This season will tell us alot about what our new coaches are able to do. I'm very patient and have set my expectations for this to be a rebuilding year. For you, its a great time to be an SU Lax fan. I have a feeling we are in for some history being made.

 

[DMVCuseLax]

Both were great hires. GG did a great job with the women. Should do the same with the men.

Hope Petro stays for a few seasons. He balances GGs laid back approach.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

I'm no expert on pretty much anything, but have played, coached and ref'ed at the high school level, so I'm dangerous at best. I have worked for the university for a bunch of years and can tell you that I have met and worked with Gait about getting his women recruits interested in our academic programs. I have to admit I love his interest and passion in academics. So, I am thrilled with is appointment as the men's head coach. How will this translate on the field? I have no idea. As for Coach Petro? I have watched him play and coach, he has very impressive acomplishments. I think he was a great hire. Will he stay at SU to make an major impact? God, I hope so. This season will tell us alot about what our new coaches are able to do. I'm very patient and have set my expectations for this to be a rebuilding year. For you, its a great time to be an SU Lax fan. I have a feeling we are in for some history being made.

The academic side of it is heartening to hear. I work at a D-1 university and am good friends with our faculty athletic rep. It seems any time a coach takes an active interest in his or her student-athletes academics, those teams seem to be the ones to excel both athletically and academically. I hope that will happen with GG as well.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Players to watch on offense are: Owen Hiltz who, as a true freshman scored 29 goals and 19 assists. Brendan Curry all american midfielder, Tucker Dordevic reportedly moving to attack from midfield where he had 23 goals last season, Owen Seebold, you want to watch his development at attack--he moved to attack from 2nd midfield for last 4 games and scored 10 goals and 4 assists in those games. He finished with 18 goals and 8 assists. Continued progress of Lucas Quinn who had 10 goals playing 2nd midfield. Jake Buttermore a midfielder who was hampered by injury last season only took 6 shots in 8 games. His return to form, 20 goals in 2019, is one of the story lines I will be watching because he can shoot it from outside with either hand.

So who would you consider the players who are the straw that stirs the drink so to speak? Is there one player that if he does well, will be indicative of how the team does as a whole?

What about the goalie from UVA? Will he start from day one?

 

[CuseAlum87]

So who would you consider the players who are the straw that stirs the drink so to speak? Is there one player that if he does well, will be indicative of how the team does as a whole?

What about the goalie from UVA? Will he start from day one?

In my opinion, right now there are 4 straws that can, and will have to, stir the orange drink. Curry, Dordevic, Hiltz, and Seebold. Each has shown the ability to score 4-5 goals in a game and each did so last season. The move of Dordevic to attack means that Curry is going to have a long pole defender on him 100% of the time. He has the speed and quickness to dodge a pole and beat him, but he is going to have to do it consistently. Which brings us to Dordevic, he has to be able to score more from the attack position than he did from midfield or the move wont be worth it. Having Curry and Dordevic on same midfield opens up dodging opportunities. Both Seebold and Hiltz have to continue to improve upon success they had last season. For me, the key is that none of these 4 can disappear during games--they need to be productive game in and game out if the Orange are going to be successful.

 

[Powellfan]

I have always followed 'Cuse lax in a casual way. That's to say I follow the box scores and pay attention come tournament time. With the trainwreck that is the Syracuse basketball team this year, I'm looking to up my rooting interest this season. So I have some questions about what I should know about this team and about the culture of the program right now.

• Gary Gait. The MJ of lacrosse, but it sounds as if there is a little bit of a split on him on the board. Since he was hired what are your thoughts?
  • Recruiting: How is he doing out there? Does his name help? Are you pleased with what he's doing?
• Petro. Again - it seems there's some split here. Some believe the game has passed him by, others think he's a great hire.
• Give me your thoughts on where the team is, storylines I should know, players I should follow, etc... If you had a friend that was interested in getting into SU lax, what are your primer notes going into this season?

Thanks all!

​

You certainly don't seem like a "noob" based on your post. Lots of great answers so far, I felt like I wanted to chime in with my own two cents. Hopefully it's helpful.

1) I like the Gait hiring and while there hasn't been much to judge him on, it's been so far so good. I think the biggest thing he has accomplished so far is that he kept together the 2022 recruiting class, which should be ranked number one. But not only did he keep it together, he strengthened it with a five star attackman (Fin Thomson), and a four star defender (Riley Figurias).

The 2023 class doesn't look as strong, but they still got commitments from some very good players. Also it seems like on the whole that it is a better class than Syracuse has been getting recently. The only thing that maybe I think Gait and the staff could have done better is bringing in more impact transfers for this season, as the team seems a little light at some positions (face-offs and midfield come to mind). But the addition of goalie Bobby Gavin from UVA should help. And at the very least it's nice that they didn't add players just to add them, which I think the prior staff did sometimes.

2) The other big thing Gait did was bring Petro on board, a move I really like. I think he helps balance out Gait and the strengths he brings really compliment the head coach (20+ years of head coaching experience in DI Men's Lacrosse), an intense personality, and a defensive background). It is definitely not a sure thing, Hopkins had a lot of issues on defense the last few years, but I also get the sense that he is a guy who can really benefit from a change in scenery. Plus I get fired up every time I see him in a Syracuse polo.

3) I wouldn't qualify this as a rebuilding year, this team has a very large amount of fifth year seniors on the team. But it might be a trying year with the schedule, and with the way last year ended. But there are a lot of really exciting players and SU always seems to be best when expectations are lowest.

Owen Hiltz is a tremendous player, who, while lacking a dominate physical presence, makes not just jaw dropping shots, but passes as well. His skip passes are things of beauty. Tucker Dordevic can shake and bake with he best of them (seriously do a quick good search), he breaks ankles like nobody's business. His move to attack should increase his point totals. Brendan Curry is a steady contributor who can race by pretty much any defender. The defense was not good last year, but Brett Kennedy is a super aggressive menace who is great in transition. He will have a lot on his shoulders this year but I think he's up for it.

If nothing else it should be entertaining! Buckle up!

 

[wgdsr]

I have always followed 'Cuse lax in a casual way. That's to say I follow the box scores and pay attention come tournament time. With the trainwreck that is the Syracuse basketball team this year, I'm looking to up my rooting interest this season. So I have some questions about what I should know about this team and about the culture of the program right now.

• Gary Gait. The MJ of lacrosse, but it sounds as if there is a little bit of a split on him on the board. Since he was hired what are your thoughts?
  • Recruiting: How is he doing out there? Does his name help? Are you pleased with what he's doing?
• Petro. Again - it seems there's some split here. Some believe the game has passed him by, others think he's a great hire.
• Give me your thoughts on where the team is, storylines I should know, players I should follow, etc... If you had a friend that was interested in getting into SU lax, what are your primer notes going into this season?

Thanks all!

​

first, given your standing with the hoops team, i'll say have patience as 'cuse plays a typical brutal schedule, or even moreso as the acc is repeating doing 6 games. they could surprise to the upside, but there are likely to be some L's as even the best teams take them nowadays, and 'cuse has some work to do.

others have covered some of the O personnel. so only things i'll say on that are:
they lose 40% of their assists (most from one guy to grad) and they collectively or thru an individual or 2 need to find a guy that raises their game in that regard. a lot. they return just 4+ apg. hiltz is a candidate, but that's more likely to come if they are big on cutting/movement and not as much on dodging/drawing even with more touches for him. and that may leave them short a finisher. they do have guys that can get a step.

also reports are gait's going to allow some more freedom, so take that as high risk/reward, more turnovers, faster pace. there will be times when that snowballs good and bad, prepare for elation and hair pulling.

their main issue will be defense even if they can match or better offensive output. acc gave up 10-11+ gpg and cuse 14. top goalie is gone in addition to just too many disconnected D possessions. slides wrong time or not there, not covered up, etc. hopkins under petro had similar issues, to me it's often about instinctual players and i don't know how many cuse has on the roster rn. plus new goalie (orange also lost their top ssdm, a close d), and new system-ish. i think you'll maybe see some surprises on the back line with fresh eyes and they will learn on the job.

faceoffs or riding or other turnovers created need to get better, personnel probably dictates it has to be one of the latter 2 or they will be running uphill all year with their schedule.

they do have some elite experience back. again, they could surprise to the upside if they're on the same page as a team and fill holes, correct deficiencies.

ftr, not as any kind of referendum on prior coaches, a number of players are excited as well for the new ones.

 

[DoctahLexus]

first, given your standing with the hoops team, i'll say have patience as 'cuse plays a typical brutal schedule, or even moreso as the acc is repeating doing 6 games. they could surprise to the upside, but there are likely to be some L's as even the best teams take them nowadays, and 'cuse has some work to do.

others have covered some of the O personnel. so only things i'll say on that are:
they lose 40% of their assists (most from one guy to grad) and they collectively or thru an individual or 2 need to find a guy that raises their game in that regard. a lot. they return just 4+ apg. hiltz is a candidate, but that's more likely to come if they are big on cutting/movement and not as much on dodging/drawing even with more touches for him. and that may leave them short a finisher. they do have guys that can get a step.

also reports are gait's going to allow some more freedom, so take that as high risk/reward, more turnovers, faster pace. there will be times when that snowballs good and bad, prepare for elation and hair pulling.

their main issue will be defense even if they can match or better offensive output. acc gave up 10-11+ gpg and cuse 14. top goalie is gone in addition to just too many disconnected D possessions. slides wrong time or not there, not covered up, etc. hopkins under petro had similar issues, to me it's often about instinctual players and i don't know how many cuse has on the roster rn. plus new goalie (orange also lost their top ssdm, a close d), and new system-ish. i think you'll maybe see some surprises on the back line with fresh eyes and they will learn on the job.

faceoffs or riding or other turnovers created need to get better, personnel probably dictates it has to be one of the latter 2 or they will be running uphill all year with their schedule.

they do have some elite experience back. again, they could surprise to the upside if they're on the same page as a team and fill holes, correct deficiencies.

ftr, not as any kind of referendum on prior coaches, a number of players are excited as well for the new ones.

Well said sir! One prediction that I would add to this is that there will be quite a bit more dodging and drawing from Hiltz than what we saw from him last season. I predict it will be to the point where people are wondering "why did he not do this more last year?" He did not show if often, but he has the speed and quickness to beat his man, as well as some of the deception and awareness that made Rehfuss so good of the dodge. Noticed it a lot more after rewatching some games this offseason. He also dusted a few guys in the inter-squad scrimmage.

 

[ivorytower]

Hiltz is terrific . A gifted player , some parallels to Teat . Saw same , very deceptive .
Humble star,, all out on rides though needs to cut back on penalties as does team in general

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Enjoying what everyone is posting here.

The Gait experience is an interesting test case. There have been many examples in other sports of great players being great coaches (Larry Bird) or great players not able to pull it off as coaches or executives (Michael Jordan).

Syracuse men’s lacrosse has added three coaches to their staff this offseason, all of whom are considered among the best if not THE best in the history of the sport at their positions on the field as players. If they can influence the areas where they excelled on the field we could have a great season and seasons to come.

As others have mentioned it could be a transition year. Love or hate John Desko his influence on the program goes back over 20 years. This could be a tough season as there is some talent but we are sort of in a weird place. That said not as high expectations could be the best thing for this group.

Last year everyone thought the team would pick up where they left off from the undefeated pandemic shortened 2020 season and we got absolutely destroyed to start the year vs. Army. The preseason prognosticators had us in the top 5. A real gut punch.

We dominated an elite Virginia team and never really returned to that level again in 21 and limped off the field after a brutal stretch and a tough loss to Georgetown in the playoffs. Georgetown was then stomped in the next round. We had the off field terrible situation with domestic abuse by Scanlon and then Desko ends up "retiring." It was ugly all around.

I am all for a new 22 both in the year and the new player who will arrive in the fall of 22! By hey 21 was not fun...pardon the pun

 

[Cuse All-In]

Hiltz is terrific . A gifted player , some parallels to Teat . Saw same , very deceptive .
Humble star,, all out on rides though needs to cut back on penalties as does team in general

Hiltz is a potential superstar and was arguably either the best or 2nd best player (Rehfuss) on the team last year. The true test for this year's team is on defense and face-offs. Outside of Kennedy, the defensive talent is thin relative to other top 15 to 20 teams IMO. If Petro and Gait can develop a defensive system and discipline which are better than last year, I think Cuse will be a competitive, respectable team. Phaup remains a big question mark as he has struggled big time in matchups against certain fogos. Does Ierlan make an impact??

The offense was very inconsistent last year and I put that on March. I would not be surprised to see March leave the program after this season. Gait will be the brains of the offense regardless.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Well said sir! One prediction that I would add to this is that there will be quite a bit more dodging and drawing from Hiltz than what we saw from him last season. I predict it will be to the point where people are wondering "why did he not do this more last year?" He did not show if often, but he has the speed and quickness to beat his man, as well as some of the deception and awareness that made Rehfuss so good of the dodge. Noticed it a lot more after rewatching some games this offseason. He also dusted a few guys in the inter-squad scrimmage.

Hiltz can dodge but he's not an elite level dodger at least not yet. Expect to see him dodge more then last year but he's not an X type of attackmen. He is very comfortable working in close to the cage even if tightly defended and get a shot off extremely quickly even in traffic. He's also as noted an excellent passer, he's a nightmare to defend on the man up and impossible to short stick. He will take another big step but once Spallina gets here his numbers will absolutely explode.

 

[Powellfan]

first, given your standing with the hoops team, i'll say have patience as 'cuse plays a typical brutal schedule, or even moreso as the acc is repeating doing 6 games. they could surprise to the upside, but there are likely to be some L's as even the best teams take them nowadays, and 'cuse has some work to do.

others have covered some of the O personnel. so only things i'll say on that are:
they lose 40% of their assists (most from one guy to grad) and they collectively or thru an individual or 2 need to find a guy that raises their game in that regard. a lot. they return just 4+ apg. hiltz is a candidate, but that's more likely to come if they are big on cutting/movement and not as much on dodging/drawing even with more touches for him. and that may leave them short a finisher. they do have guys that can get a step.

also reports are gait's going to allow some more freedom, so take that as high risk/reward, more turnovers, faster pace. there will be times when that snowballs good and bad, prepare for elation and hair pulling.

their main issue will be defense even if they can match or better offensive output. acc gave up 10-11+ gpg and cuse 14. top goalie is gone in addition to just too many disconnected D possessions. slides wrong time or not there, not covered up, etc. hopkins under petro had similar issues, to me it's often about instinctual players and i don't know how many cuse has on the roster rn. plus new goalie (orange also lost their top ssdm, a close d), and new system-ish. i think you'll maybe see some surprises on the back line with fresh eyes and they will learn on the job.

faceoffs or riding or other turnovers created need to get better, personnel probably dictates it has to be one of the latter 2 or they will be running uphill all year with their schedule.

they do have some elite experience back. again, they could surprise to the upside if they're on the same page as a team and fill holes, correct deficiencies.

ftr, not as any kind of referendum on prior coaches, a number of players are excited as well for the new ones.

I am very curious as to what the Syracuse offense will look like in '22. They return a very good starting unit, but very little proven depth, and they loose their QB in Rhefuss. I imagine that Seebold will take over "X", but in watching him play these last few years (albeit out of position for most of it) he does not strike me as a typical "QB". He attacks from the behind the goal very well and uses his big frame and decent speed to make layups. But I haven't seen much vision from the super senior from Texas.

So who will be the QB? It will probably be Hiltz, but like wgdsr pointed out, you kind of rob Peter to pay Paul as he is probably the best shooter on the team. He had very even goal/assist totals in high school, but like Jeremy pointed out, he will probably be best when he has someone else to play off of. The second best passer on the team is Curry, and I would not be surprised if they invert him a ton, especially if he can draw short sticks. The rest of the team though really lacks when it comes to moving the ball unfortunately. Quinn and Dordevic combined for just 10 assists last year and Buttermore has just three assists in his entire career. An X factor could be Fiorini, if he ever figures things out, as he was a pass first midfielder in high school.

The question of motion vs isolation offense is an essential one. I am not a huge Xs and Os guy, but I see some players better suited for motion, and others for iso. Dordevic, Buttermore, Seebold and Quinn really seem like guys who want to take the defense on by themselves. I think however, a move to a more Canadian offense, with lots of movement and picks and switches could open things up, and would probably play right into the hands of the best player on the team in Hiltz. Heck it won the Chaos a PLL title this past year and they certainly didn't have a player you would call a "QB".

The other option is, I think would be to run a Virginia-like offense (they also didn't have what you would call a distributor), but I think the Cavs have unique personnel that frankly the Orange can't match right now. Obviously Gait comes from a very Canadian background, and while I haven't watched a ton of footage of him coaching the Women's team, what I did see involved a lot of movement. So while most of the personnel isn't suited to motion, I think it's because of that fact the move to a more movement based offense makes sense. In a way it will force certain players to move the ball around, and hopefully break some bad habits. Others on this board with a better understanding of X's and O's might very much disagree with me. I know Kevin Donahue tried this a few years ago, but this is a whole different batch of players, and Gait might bring some unique perspective to the transition.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Most of your questions have been answered I think by now but I will try and add a few things.

There will be big pressure on Quinn and Seebold to produce consistently as starters at mid and attack respectively. Keep an eye on both of those guys, both really came on last year but Quinn will be a starter for the first time and can get off and start freelancing. The third attack spot was a huge? but that appears to have been filled by Dordevic. Who emerges as the 4h attack guy - Corsi? Does Berkman make a push? Can Gait unlock the enigma that is Cook? Can Ferris breakout after an injury this fall? Now is the time to make a move as Spallina will start from Day 1 and Leo and Thompson aren't far behind.

Keep an eye on Tengalia and Birtwistle, both showed well in the fall of 2020 before injuries hit both. Both can play attack or middie but midfield is their likely destination. Don't be surprised if one of the two has a big year. Will Buttermore be back healthy and if so does he finally get a shot on the 1st line? Can Curry be more consistent or will he continue to have a big game then disappear for weeks. Getting Curry to play like the AA he is consistently will be huge for this team, he can't go MIA for stretches this year. Can Magnan or Fiorini, two former UA AA's finally get on the field or do you have to consider them busts?

Does Gait go with a more free-flowing offense allowing the SSDM to push transition and stay on for mismatches? He has multiple former middies playing SSDM including Rosa, Aviles, Dami and the true Frosh Carter Rice. Could be very dangerous if given the green light but a double edged sword as well.

Keep an eye on the schedule which is in my opinion a bit of an over schedule by Gait especially when comparing it to the other ACC teams. Does steel sharpen steel or does the constant toll of playing a Top 25 team week in and week out or does it wear SU down and the wheels come off. It's a very fine line. Defense is a different post but those are some things to watch this year at least from an offensive standpoint.

 

[ivorytower]

Enjoyed watching some of the gals lacrosse games. There was alot of motion and cuts akin to basketball . Proper spacing and good passing skills were key. Ball moved nicely. As far as pace , women's goalie was quick to go upfield with her passes and they pushed it whenever they could . Similar concepts likely carry over to men, how the personnel fits the style remains to be seen . Did take some time for Tiffany to implement his ways at UVA .

My advice to Alex DeLarge is to keep his expectations low and keep his antacids handy . There are no average lax teams in the acc , all are arguably in top five unlike in acc football and basketball . There will be valleys but also highlights and climbs to enjoy this season and beyond