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Hey cowtown...

jekelish

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There's really nothing to explain. It was a missed call. Clearly above the cylinder when an offensive player touched it.
 

samspann1

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That looked so obvious in real time. Really don't know how they missed it.
 

Cowtown

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There's really nothing to explain. It was a missed call. Clearly above the cylinder when an offensive player touched it.

What it looked like to me was the ball was on its downward arc, with a chance to go, when the Miami player touched it. Based on that, it should have been offensive goaltending. I'm not sure how the cylinder applies in NCAA.
 

tbonezone

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correction. ball was in the cylinder when the miami player touched it. so obvious.it was a major missed call.
 

Cowtown

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That looked so obvious in real time. Really don't know how they missed it.

Yeah, I thought so too. The trouble begins with the fact the ball (on a shot) is trail's responsibility, but I'm guessing he was too far away to get a good look at it. Lead isn't supposed to look above the bottom of the backboard (+/-), for his "primary" there is the bodies in the lane. Middle must have gotten screened or "straight-lined." It was just a cold dead miss. Happens more often at the elite level than you'd think, too. In the Kansas/Ok St game opposite the Pitt game last week, a dunk attempt was blocked by a Kansas player whose blocking hand came up through the basket. It's a violation, and it was just plain missed. Television replay isn't kind to officials, for to be honest, we miss calls. Period. On that OB play under two minutes that they looked at (it clearly went off Miami no. 22's knee, and the officials gave the ball back to SU), Fair was freaking clobbered across the arm by no. 22, but the official missed it. On the replay it looked like he got straight-lined. And Greg Anthony was still claiming you couldn't tell, when it was very obvious. And so was the foul, too, and Anthony didn't say a word about that.
 
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Cowtown

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correction. ball was in the cylinder when the miami player touched it. so obvious.it was a major missed call.

Unless I'm wrong, the cylinder only applies to a ball after a "try for goal" (rule book talk). If in the ref's judgment it was a pass, then there's no cylinder. Feel free to correct me. I ref in FIBA, where there's no cylinder at all. In fact, the ball can be rolling on the rim and the defense can swat it off the rim. But very few people know it. Good thing, too! :eek:
 
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SWC75

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Yeah, I thought so too. The trouble begins with the fact the ball (on a shot) is trail's responsibility, but I'm guessing he was too far away to get a good look at it. Lead isn't supposed to look above the bottom of the backboard (+/-), for he's supposed to be watching bodies in the lane there. Middle must have gotten screened or "straight-lined." It was just a cold dead miss. Happens more often at the elite level than you'd think, too. In the Kansas/Ok St game opposite the Pitt game last week, a dunk attempt was blocked by a Kansas player whose blocking hand came up through the basket. It's a violation, and it was just plain missed. Television replay isn't kind to officials, for to be honest, we miss calls. Period. On that OB play under two minutes that they looked at (it clearly went off Miami no. 22's knee, and the officials gave the ball back to SU), Fair was freaking clobbered across the arm by no. 22, but the official missed it. On the replay it looked like he got straight-lined. And Greg Anthony was still claiming you couldn't tell, when it was very obvious. And so was the foul, too, and Anthony didn't say a word about that.


is goal-tending, (or the failure to call it), reviewable and if not why not?
 

OburgOrange

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image.jpg
 

Cowtown

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is goal-tending, (or the failure to call it), reviewable and if not why not?

I don't know the answer to that, SWC. The games I ref don't have television replay. How did Boeheim react? He was actually farther away than any of the officials. If that play is a specified "correctable error," it must be corrected before the ball comes alive again after the first dead ball following the play, which would have been the first dead ball after the ball was taken out of bounds after the basket. If nobody detected it before then, it stands.

But knowing a little about how ref's think, if they reviewed that play, they're probably going to say it was a pass, and thus a 2 point basket. And if I'm JB, I probably accept that.
 
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jordoo

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F Cowtown

Why because you don't agree with him? He's been around a long while and not just here. Guy is a good poster and sometimes I like to read his softer view of the refs because if anything I tend to error way in the other direction. I don't always agree but he has never to my knowledge been an a$$ about it.
 
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kuethstheman

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Guess I get to take the job of ref defender. I watched it 10 times super-slow and I'm not sure he touched it.

Although in real time, I was sure he had.
 

jordoo

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Guess I get to take the job of ref defender. I watched it 10 times super-slow and I'm not sure he touched it.

But he touched the rim which is automatic basket interference weather he touched the ball or not.
 

kuethstheman

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But he touched the rim which is automatic basket interference weather he touched the ball or not.
Good point. I wasn't looking for that so I can't say if he did.
 

kuethstheman

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Guess I get to take the job of ref defender. I watched it 10 times super-slow and I'm not sure he touched it.

Although in real time, I was sure he had.
And I'm not saying he didn't but at the frame-rate and angle of the replay, I don't think I see him touching the ball.
 

Cowtown

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But he touched the rim which is automatic basket interference weather he touched the ball or not.

Just touching the rim, I don't think so, jordoo. It's like a backboard slap. It must have an effect on the play. Although on this play, it certainly did, lol!
 

pfister1

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is goal-tending, (or the failure to call it), reviewable and if not why not?


According to the graphic they showed during the game, it is not. I think we had the situation work in our favor earlier in the season. We took a 3 it bounced high on the rim and one of our guys interfered with it. It was obvious on the replay but not called. They actually reviewed the play because they weren't certain the shooter was behind the line, but all they could do was determine whether to award 2 or 3 points, not wipe the basket off as they should have.

Same thing today, just slightly different play because the touch was on the initial pass/shot and everyone thought it was supposed to be an alley oop pass rather than a shot.
 

Cowtown

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And I'm not saying he didn't but at the frame-rate and angle of the replay, I don't think I see him touching the ball.

Understood. Even with the replay, it's difficult to tell for certain.

Officiating basketball is easily the single most difficult thing I have ever done in sports. The hand is most certainly quicker than the eye. All you can really do is know your rules and the applications, hustle hard all the time, be honest and objective, and consistent. If you can do those things, you're going to do a good job 99% of the time. And if you can, you'll be in the 99th percentile of the population, and good coaches will invariably smile when they look up and see you walking into their gym.
 
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