How did it get to this point with forwards? | Syracusefan.com

How did it get to this point with forwards?

RF2044

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I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I suggest that throughout his career, JB's best teams have been forward-oriented. And over the years, we've had some great forwards who've brought elite versatility / scoring.

This year, we're starting two completely unproven, inexperienced forwards who both look lost. Bell had ZERO rebounds or assists. Benny wasn't much better.

I'm pulling for Benny to bounce back, but I fear that if he hasn't put things together [even to some degree] by this point, when will he? We need him to be better -- he's such a likeable kid, really pulling for him to right the ship.

But I'm not sure that there are any other candidates on the roster to step in and produce. Discouraging turn of events at forward, in an otherwise solid debut game.
 

Melancer46

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Despite the poor shooting, I think Taylor looked promising in terms of having the potential to be a starter as early as this year. He'd still be a weakness in the starting lineup for us, but I think he may be better than the two starters.

I remain skeptical of Brown once we start playing against bigger/more athletic teams but he did his thing tonight too.

Agree overall though; forward is clearly our biggest weakness.
 

Entropic

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Yeah I like Browns skillset and he seems to just have an understanding of the game and where to be. He may struggle against ACC sized dudes this year. Taylor seems to have all the confidence in the world and is already built to compete but needs to slow down a bit and look for good shots. Benny and Bell... I don't know.
 

oldpinepoint

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I think it’s been his strategy all along, enthralled with the Steph Curry golden state offense of chucking 3’s, that and recruiting misses, mostly recruiting misses
 

elimunelson

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Taylor has some Mike Hopkins energy out there. I feel like he's going to win a game or 2 for us this year just on the basis of energy.

He's not ready yet but he is a spicy player already
 

Orangezoo

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Despite the poor shooting, I think Taylor looked promising in terms of having the potential to be a starter as early as this year. He'd still be a weakness in the starting lineup for us, but I think he may be better than the two starters.

I remain skeptical of Brown once we start playing against bigger/more athletic teams but he did his thing tonight too.

Agree overall though; forward is clearly our biggest weakness.

I think it's fair to say a lot of teams struggle with having good forwards. So many teams that play 3 guards these days with a forward who is effectively just a rebounding and defense guy and one bigger guard who is a hybrid 2/3. It's not how we roll traditionally but we have more in common with the masses in that regard. To that same extent we also are not usually a post offense oriented team with a bigtime offensive center so seems we've swapped our usual 4v5 at the 5 position to 4 v 5 with one of the forward spots. Just need to not be playing 3 v 5 i.e. with one of the frosh locking in as an offensive threat.
 

billsin01

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I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I suggest that throughout his career, JB's best teams have been forward-oriented. And over the years, we've had some great forwards who've brought elite versatility / scoring.

This year, we're starting two completely unproven, inexperienced forwards who both look lost. Bell had ZERO rebounds or assists. Benny wasn't much better.

I'm pulling for Benny to bounce back, but I fear that if he hasn't put things together [even to some degree] by this point, when will he? We need him to be better -- he's such a likeable kid, really pulling for him to right the ship.

But I'm not sure that there are any other candidates on the roster to step in and produce. Discouraging turn of events at forward, in an otherwise solid debut game.
I’m going to assume your question was rhetorical and just merely agree here. Is it too late to grab a transfer? I’m only half-joking. Taylor will be fine and Brown will be fine at some point, maybe next year. Bell, not sure. Benny is very athletically gifted so, who knows.

But I think the scary thing of it all is I’m not sure I’m terribly excited about the group next year. If Benny gets his feet under him and makes a quantum leap, then ok. Bell, Taylor, and brown don’t look so athletic that I see ‘difference maker’ stamped on any of them. Not trying to knock them as I think they’re nice prospects, but if JB were to retire and you handed me the reigns for next year I’d be trying to do something immediate at both forward spots I think.
 

Brooky03

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They’re young. I saw some flashes last night (I think Bell is going to be very good). But more importantly, I saw size and athleticism and defensive tenacity.

Syracuse has slumped because the defense hasn’t been good the last few years, not because the offense couldn’t score points. Some of that had to do with the lack of athleticism at the top of the zone, but a lot had got do with either undersized or scoring-oriented forwards who couldn’t or were unwilling to play defense. I see a willingness to play defense in this group along with options, which is another thing we’ve been missing.

I’m not discouraged by the Forwards. At least not yet.
 

billsin01

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This may sound crazy, but maybe steal some minutes with Edwards at the 4 and Duquesne dude at 5
I think that’s crazy but I’m still hoping Carey emerges so he could run a bit at the 4. So you’re welcome aboard.
 

Grbac

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The team runs through Edwards, Mintz, and Girard. The two forwards really just need to play defense, rebound, and not be a liability.
With that said I think Brown should play over Benny. He can play defense and rebound. Bell and Benny can split the other forward spot.
 

Newhouser

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The team runs through Edwards, Mintz, and Girard. The two forwards really just need to play defense, rebound, and not be a liability.
With that said I think Brown should play over Benny. He can play defense and rebound. Bell and Benny can split the other forward spot.
I agree - we need the big 3 with Symir (if he continues to show he can play extended minutes). The forwards may have to be whoever is on that night or bringing energy and impacting the game in a good way. I also think we need to throw away the traditional concepts of the 3 and 4 position with this team. Play our big 3 and put 2 players out there not guys who just play.
 

SoBristol

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They’re young. I saw some flashes last night (I think Bell is going to be very good). But more importantly, I saw size and athleticism and defensive tenacity.

Syracuse has slumped because the defense hasn’t been good the last few years, not because the offense couldn’t score points. Some of that had to do with the lack of athleticism at the top of the zone, but a lot had got do with either undersized or scoring-oriented forwards who couldn’t or were unwilling to play defense. I see a willingness to play defense in this group along with options, which is another thing we’ve been missing.

I’m not discouraged by the Forwards. At least not yet.
Interesting. I saw inside defense and rebounding from Edwards, from the reserve center, and from Brown. Lots of open looks for Lehigh. The forwards other than Brown have a lot to learn about defending.

I agree about Bell, on offense. The potential is there, and he will get better as a scorer.
 

FrancoPizza

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Taylor has some Mike Hopkins energy out there. I feel like he's going to win a game or 2 for us this year just on the basis of energy.

He's not ready yet but he is a spicy player already
Not sure what you saw out of him. He was largely invisible. It’s hard to be the energy guy when you have less foot speed than Buddy.
 

DCUNITED13

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Saw a lot of good things in the first half. We let Lehigh shoot 50% from the field in the 2nd half. I think Benny had a so so game and was not given more minutes at the end due to him chucking up a 3 pointer early in the clock. He needs to rebound and drive and shoot from inside the 12-15 FT range, closer to the basket. If he is really a 6'10" forward with quickness and skills he would be devastating going to the hoop and drawing fouls. There is a lot of bashing of Bennie on this board but he is a Sophmore with little experience on the college floor. Give it a break please. Lets see where he stands when we get to ACC play. I believe we will be pleasantly surprised (if he follows JB's direction).

Jesse was a beast. Dominating and Lehigh had no answer for him. He drew 6 or 7 fouls against their front line in the 1st half. Girard was good shooting the ball. His dribble penetration and passing when doing so is below par. At one point 2 or 3 straight turnovers. (Almost cost me the 146.5 over LOL). We did a nice job not getting into foul trouble. Our man to man defense will give up a lot of easy 3 point shots against good shooting teams. Outside of Symir and Jesse we are poor MTM as of this moment. (Expected as we have a bunch of freshmen playing). We scored 90 points playing 12!!!! Our offence was good enough. Defence we allowed a few easy 3 pointers at the end and there will be game film for Taylor and Copeland on better positioning and better choices that need to be made with the ball. (Copeland trying to get Carry the ball for him to score, no need to force that issue)

Overall, fantastic result and I'm pleased to see that this is a team that will compete in the 1st half of every game. I'm still not sold on our 2nd half play with having teams come back on us as we pretty much played even in the 2nd half of the last 2 games. Need some more bite and crush teams completely. (like we used to do with Sherm/DC). Could not tell but we had a lot of points of turnovers due to have quicker people at the guard and forward positions. Quicker feet and quicker hands.

Key to our season will be our defense not giving up too many open shots. I do not see with this group alow easy penetrations into the lane in MTM or Zone. Its a nice change from the last 3 seasons.

Go CUSE.
 

Cusefan0307

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JB is likely going to force feed Benny to try and get him right. If that doesn't work I would gather Brown is next in line to get an opportunity

I think there's a good chance Taylor develops into a solid option once he adjusts to the speed of the game.

If none of this works just play small with Symir.
 

DoctahLexus

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JB is likely going to force feed Benny to try and get him right. If that doesn't work I would gather Brown is next in line to get an opportunity

I think there's a good chance Taylor develops into a solid option once he adjusts to the speed of the game.

If none of this works just play small with Symir.
Along with Symir would love to see us try going slightly small with Copeland at small forward. He looks ready from a length and athleticism standpoint. Would be nice to have someone at small forward who is a serious threat off the dribble but is not actually that small.
 

RF2044

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Yeah I like Browns skillset and he seems to just have an understanding of the game and where to be. He may struggle against ACC sized dudes this year. Taylor seems to have all the confidence in the world and is already built to compete but needs to slow down a bit and look for good shots. Benny and Bell... I don't know.


Me, too -- and to be clear, I was referring to the combined performance of the two starting forwards.

But Brown is going to be a GOOD player for us down the road. He and Carey were the two lowest rated recruits, and they might end up being the best two players in the class when it's all said and done [obviously, Mintz is a stud, and I like Copeland's long term potential, too].
 

Brooky03

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Interesting. I saw inside defense and rebounding from Edwards, from the reserve center, and from Brown. Lots of open looks for Lehigh. The forwards other than Brown have a lot to learn about defending.

I agree about Bell, on offense. The potential is there, and he will get better as a scorer.

The zone takes time. I guess I was commenting more on the energy and potential I saw out there. We haven’t had a back line in the zone of all 6’8”+ true athletes in a long time it seems. I think Boeheim teams excel when we have that foundation to work from. We don’t have an Andrew White-type (tall but slow and disinterested) liability back there and we aren’t forced to play basically just a tall guard there for the long stretches or the whole game, like we’ve had to do in recent years. Having true Centers helps, too.

I feel like I’m seeing a prototypical Boeheim team that could smother you on defense and get transition buckets. They just need to put it all together. Hopefully that potential turns into ability by ACC play.
 

Cuse_NYC

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Not sure what you saw out of him. He was largely invisible. It’s hard to be the energy guy when you have less foot speed than Buddy.
Yeah Jim even made a comment About how bad bell and JT are defensively. JT tries, Bell idn
 

Niastri

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The zone takes time. I guess I was commenting more on the energy and potential I saw out there. We haven’t had a back line in the zone of all 6’8”+ true athletes in a long time it seems. I think Boeheim teams excel when we have that foundation to work from. We don’t have an Andrew White-type (tall but slow and disinterested) liability back there and we aren’t forced to play basically just a tall guard there for the long stretches or the whole game, like we’ve had to do in recent years. Having true Centers helps, too.

I feel like I’m seeing a prototypical Boeheim team that could smother you on defense and get transition buckets. They just need to put it all together. Hopefully that potential turns into ability by ACC play.
This is what I've been saying since we picked up Mintz to finish our recruiting class. We have the materials for a really prototype Syracuse defense.

As a bonus, we have the materials for a really good press as well!

With Edwards, Girard and Mintz, we should be able to score enough to have the athletes win games for us this year.
 

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