Hoya view on boeheim | Syracusefan.com

Hoya view on boeheim

PauliePeppas

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Look regardless if Fab was overrated coming out of high school the point is he had the tools to be a major factor in college. Can we all agree on that? There was a reason he came with such hype. But what did he do? Not much of anything. How is it that on a team lacking a post presence this kid only averages 7 and 6 in his second season? What's wrong with that picture? Roy Hibbert came to GU with far less acclaim and yet by his soph season the dude was averaging double figures in points DESPITE playing in a more methodical system. Oh, and Hibbert manage to do that while also actually going to class, staying eligible and spending most of his time hitting the books (actually Fab was good at hitting too...it just so happened that it wasn't books).


Also if it was just a matter of Hibbert and Melo then I could understand people brushing it off. But Boeheim has a 30 year history at Syracuse. That's a large enough sample. During that time span, despite more McDAAs than any other Big East coach/team, the man only produced one terrific player in the NBA who lived up to expectations. One. And that one player was the dude who stuck around only one season in Syracuse. All the other Syracuse pros were either first rounders and lottery picks who never lived up to their potential (like Coleman and Owens) or second rounders who never exceeded the low/middle-of-the-road expectations people had for them. You know what we call that from where I'm from? Lack. Of. Development.

No matter how many excuses people want to toss out regarding Melo, you can't spin the fact that Boeheim's players don't do all that great at the next level. Ever college coach with a lengthy history at a major program/programs that have produced NBA players is bound to have a good chunk of guys who never panned out in the pros. But Boeheim's success ratio on that front is more horrible than practically anyone else other than Izzo. Therefore it is my opinion that man won't do anything for Noel's game. I which I could smugly say the same thing about Calipari but I can't.
 
Here is a better question. Everyone likes to talk in generalities and it really annoys me because I was raised to find out "why" things happen. So, specifically, why is one year of Georgetown better than one year of Syracuse. Their answer is above: "Boeheim's lack of success in the NBA".

My rebuttal is: What, specifically (No BS, I want to know), will Noel get in one year at Georgetown that will lead to NBA success that he will so clearly not get with one year at Syracuse. When you start thinking this way, you realize that everything you are hearing is pure mumbo-jumbo. Just chest-beating.

Noel will go wherever he wants, and he will be as good in the NBA as he wants to be, regardless of where he spent his one year vacation.
 
Who is the "Hoya" in this thread?
 
Look regardless if Fab was overrated coming out of high school the point is he had the tools to be a major factor in college. Can we all agree on that? There was a reason he came with such hype. But what did he do? Not much of anything. How is it that on a team lacking a post presence this kid only averages 7 and 6 in his second season? What's wrong with that picture? Roy Hibbert came to GU with far less acclaim and yet by his soph season the dude was averaging double figures in points DESPITE playing in a more methodical system. Oh, and Hibbert manage to do that while also actually going to class, staying eligible and spending most of his time hitting the books (actually Fab was good at hitting too...it just so happened that it wasn't books).


Also if it was just a matter of Hibbert and Melo then I could understand people brushing it off. But Boeheim has a 30 year history at Syracuse. That's a large enough sample. During that time span, despite more McDAAs than any other Big East coach/team, the man only produced one terrific player in the NBA who lived up to expectations. One. And that one player was the dude who stuck around only one season in Syracuse. All the other Syracuse pros were either first rounders and lottery picks who never lived up to their potential (like Coleman and Owens) or second rounders who never exceeded the low/middle-of-the-road expectations people had for them. You know what we call that from where I'm from? Lack. Of. Development.

No matter how many excuses people want to toss out regarding Melo, you can't spin the fact that Boeheim's players don't do all that great at the next level. Ever college coach with a lengthy history at a major program/programs that have produced NBA players is bound to have a good chunk of guys who never panned out in the pros. But Boeheim's success ratio on that front is more horrible than practically anyone else other than Izzo. Therefore it is my opinion that man won't do anything for Noel's game. I which I could smugly say the same thing about Calipari but I can't.

Lack of development in the NBA shouldn't reflect on what happened in college. The reason guys like Coleman and Owens were drafted high in the first place was because of how good they were in college. What happens after that is solely on them.

If you're going to talk about development, you have to talk about the guys that weren't highly rated before stepping on campus too. Rony Seikely went from "Rony who" to lottery pick. Etan Thomas could barely catch a ball when he wasn't fouling out as a freshman, but he developed into a lottery pick by the time he was a senior. Hakim Warrick was barely rated in the top 100 in his class coming out of highschool and became a first round draft pick when all was said and done.

A great example of lack of development is Othella Harrington. Points and rebounds per game as a freshman were 16.8 and 8.8, fell to 14.7 ppg and 8.0 rpg as a sophomore, slipped further to 12.2 ppg and 6.0 rpg as a junior, and settled at 12.2 ppg and 6.9 rpg as a senior. Some would say his numbers changed because of Allen Iverson, but that doesn't explain the drop from freshman to sophomore year prior to AI showing up.

We can contrast that with the development of John Wallace over the exact same time period. He averaged 11.1 ppg and 7.6 rpg as a freshman, 15.0 ppg and 9.0 rpg as a sophomore, 16.8 ppg and 8.2 rpg as a junior, and 22.2 and 8.7 as a senior. He also went from missing his 3 attempts from 3 his first two years to making 42% of his 88 attempts as a senior.
 
O and mciguy id post over there but apparently you need a georgetown email address...not cool man, not cool
 
There's no getting around the lack of SU success in the NBA. Who you place the blame on (coach, player, luck) is debatable, but the overall track record has been less than awe inspiring, to put it nicely.
 
There's no getting around the lack of SU success in the NBA. Who you place the blame on (coach, player, luck) is debatable, but the overall track record has been less than awe inspiring, to put it nicely.
It's kinda reflected our team. We've had teams with high expectations and many of them underachieved when compared to those expectations. Others have overachieved like the '96 finals team. In the same way we had guys that underachieved in the league Owens, Pearl, and maybe Coleman (When you look at his numbers he was a very good player. The problem is he had the talent to be a hall of famer). But we've had guys that have had solid careers that most wouldn't have thought would make the league when they stepped on campus like Etan Thomas, Warrick, and Rony Seikely. Even Jason Hart stuck around far longer than I would have thought.
 
graham, ewing, iverson, page, brown, etc. be proud hoya's.
 
I just realized gtown hasnt had a guard drafted since iverson, thats ridiculous
 
Look regardless if Fab was overrated coming out of high school the point is he had the tools to be a major factor in college. Can we all agree on that? There was a reason he came with such hype. But what did he do? Not much of anything. How is it that on a team lacking a post presence this kid only averages 7 and 6 in his second season? What's wrong with that picture? Roy Hibbert came to GU with far less acclaim and yet by his soph season the dude was averaging double figures in points DESPITE playing in a more methodical system. Oh, and Hibbert manage to do that while also actually going to class, staying eligible and spending most of his time hitting the books (actually Fab was good at hitting too...it just so happened that it wasn't books).


Also if it was just a matter of Hibbert and Melo then I could understand people brushing it off. But Boeheim has a 30 year history at Syracuse. That's a large enough sample. During that time span, despite more McDAAs than any other Big East coach/team, the man only produced one terrific player in the NBA who lived up to expectations. One. And that one player was the dude who stuck around only one season in Syracuse. All the other Syracuse pros were either first rounders and lottery picks who never lived up to their potential (like Coleman and Owens) or second rounders who never exceeded the low/middle-of-the-road expectations people had for them. You know what we call that from where I'm from? Lack. Of. Development.

No matter how many excuses people want to toss out regarding Melo, you can't spin the fact that Boeheim's players don't do all that great at the next level. Ever college coach with a lengthy history at a major program/programs that have produced NBA players is bound to have a good chunk of guys who never panned out in the pros. But Boeheim's success ratio on that front is more horrible than practically anyone else other than Izzo. Therefore it is my opinion that man won't do anything for Noel's game. I which I could smugly say the same thing about Calipari but I can't.

The aroma I detect from all this is the Hoya DESPERATION that surrounds the fan interest in recruiting Noel.

Most of their fans know that they are about to take a huge hit in terms of the Big East Conference morphing into C-USA.

The GU future starts to look very much like a home in an East Coast / Midwest All Catholic Conference. Georgetown with its minicule fan base will draw even smaller crowds at the MCI Center. It's half full now. Can they afford the rent if it's only a quarter full?

So Noel is a "must have" for GU as his presence forestalls irelevancy ... at least for a few years. If you want to see GU's future... look closely at St Joes in Phila. That's where they are headed.

But either way, the Georgetown v. SU relationship is about to come to a halt. In spite of Boeheim's stated interest in continuing to play Georgetown, I think our new circumstances will lobby against it. Out of Conference "rivalries" are largely a myth. When the game means little, there's little reason to play it.
 
1. Take every school that has produced at least 10 NBA players over the last 40 years (cups of coffee count)
2. If a school has produced more than 10, select the 10 best, while attempting to fill out a team with positional balance
3. Choose and seed the best 64 teams, based on professional success

What seed to we get? I'd guess we'd be a 7-10 seed.
 
O and mciguy id post over there but apparently you need a georgetown email address...not cool man, not cool

The MCI guy is not a GU grad. He went to DeMatha and is from PG County and for some reason has latched on to GU as his team. I guess all those Terp fans over there have bullied him for years and this is his way to get back at them.
 
To the OP, do they realize that Fab was the BE DPOY? That is as a sophomore.

He was the centerpieice of one of the best defenses in BE history.

Are they really that oblivious to Defense? It will be how Fab earns his first paycheck.

If he had stayed longer SU would have helped him develop his O game. It's not like players haven't developed their O here, just look at AO as an example.
 
The MCI guy is not a GU grad. He went to DeMatha and is from PG County and for some reason has latched on to GU as his team. I guess all those Terp fans over there have bullied him for years and this is his way to get back at them.

So how does one sign up w/out a gtown .edu e-mail?
 
No idea. I tried my aol yahoo and work email and got rejected each time before i gave up lol

I don't think you need a GU domain. What you can't use is yahoo, Gmail or any of these mega - domains. It says this right on the home page ... or it used to.
 
Here is a better question. Everyone likes to talk in generalities and it really annoys me because I was raised to find out "why" things happen. So, specifically, why is one year of Georgetown better than one year of Syracuse. Their answer is above: "Boeheim's lack of success in the NBA".

My rebuttal is: What, specifically (No BS, I want to know), will Noel get in one year at Georgetown that will lead to NBA success that he will so clearly not get with one year at Syracuse. When you start thinking this way, you realize that everything you are hearing is pure mumbo-jumbo. Just chest-beating.

Noel will go wherever he wants, and he will be as good in the NBA as he wants to be, regardless of where he spent his one year vacation.

Now that's keeping things real. Excellent post!
 
There's no getting around the lack of SU success in the NBA. Who you place the blame on (coach, player, luck) is debatable, but the overall track record has been less than awe inspiring, to put it nicely.

This is really a foolish debate. Syracuse University has never been a wheel house for future pros, but generally a system program that develops kids into very solid collegiate players, of course with some exceptions.

There's nothing to get around. If these players had NBA potential, going to SU certainly didn't hinder their chances in anyway. Talent, no matter what, finds a way to rise above, if indeed that degree of talent truly existed in the first place.
 
This is really a foolish debate. Syracuse University has never been a wheel house for future pros, but generally a system program that develops kids into very solid collegiate players, of course with some exceptions.

There's nothing to get around. If these players had NBA potential, going to SU certainly didn't hinder there chances in anyway. Talent, no matter what, finds a way to rise above, if indeed that degree of talent truly existed in the first place.
Agreed, it is a straw man, a red herring. JB sucks because he can't get past the sweet 16. Oh wait, this year he made the elite 8, without his starting D PoY center, so JB now sucks because he can't win the BE. Wait, they ran away with the regular season. Ok, ok...JB sucks because he doesn't produce enough NBA talent. Give me a friggin break. It is not his job to develop pro talent, it is his job to win games at SU. Which he contributed 34 of this year. Nice try though haters.
 
Agreed, it is a straw man, a red herring. JB sucks because he can't get past the sweet 16. Oh wait, this year he made the elite 8, without his starting D PoY center, so JB now sucks because he can't win the BE. Wait, they ran away with the regular season. Ok, ok...JB sucks because he doesn't produce enough NBA talent. Give me a friggin break. It is not his job to develop pro talent, it is his job to win games at SU. Which he contributed 34 of this year. Nice try though haters.

Did you read the post? Where did it point the blame specifically on JB? Sounds like you're just overly defensive.
 
1. Take every school that has produced at least 10 NBA players over the last 40 years (cups of coffee count)
2. If a school has produced more than 10, select the 10 best, while attempting to fill out a team with positional balance
3. Choose and seed the best 64 teams, based on professional success

What seed to we get? I'd guess we'd be a 7-10 seed.
1 seeds
UCLA
North Carolina
Kentucky
Kansas
2 seeds
Duke
Arizona
UConn
LSU
3 seeds
Georgia Tech
Cincinnati
Georgetown
Michigan
4 seeds
Michigan State
Wake Forest (if they had more quantity they would be in contention for a higher seed Duncan, Paul)
Syracuse
Alabama
I got Syracuse as a 4 seed tell me who I am missing.
 
1 seeds
UCLA
North Carolina
Kentucky
Kansas
2 seeds
Duke
Arizona
UConn
LSU
3 seeds
Georgia Tech
Cincinnati
Georgetown
Michigan
4 seeds
Michigan State
Wake Forest (if they had more quantity they would be in contention for a higher seed Duncan, Paul)
Syracuse
Alabama
I got Syracuse as a 4 seed tell me who I am missing.

I don't know the answer, and not sure who you're lineup includes for us. Assuming a starting line-up of something like:
F Melo
F. Coleman
F Orr
C Seikaly
G Sherm

How would that compare with, for example
SJU: Mullin, Jackson, Artest, Wennington, Sealy
DePaul: Aguirre, Strickland, Cummings, Corbin, Richardson
Oklahoma: Griffin, Tisdale, Blaylock, Grant, Heard
NC State: Bailey, Gugliotta, Thompson, Webb, McMillan
Indiana: Benson, Gordon, Isaiah, Cheaney, Blab
ND: Carr, Ellis, Tripucka, Laimbeer, Paxson

There's a ton of schools that have put a bunch in the league. And it's hard to differentiate after the true blue bloods.
 
my top 10 for Syracuse would be
G-Bing
G- Douglas
C- Siekaly
F-Anthony
Coleman

bench: Etan Thomas, Billy Owens,Dan Schayes,Louis Orr and Hak Warrick. If we needed another guard it would be Jason Hart.
note: I added Bing because half of his NBA career occured in the last 40 years 1972-77.
 

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