i don't mind duke playing zone | Syracusefan.com

i don't mind duke playing zone

jgeorge322

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
9,646
Like
16,318
duke playing 2-3 v pitt and just overwhelming pitt with their size. its almost unfair.

must help a tad when jb can point to the top program in the country playing his defensive scheme.
 

kingtidge

All Conference
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,822
Like
3,641
was referring to the 2-3. did you not understand that?

i think jb can call the 2-3 his defensive scheme at this point.

I get what you are saying, however, zone defense existed in the game well before boeheim's tenure and will be around long after he's gone.

It's been a staple defense in international basketball for decades and that fact has nothing to do with JB.

Boeheim has definitely popularized it in recent years in the college game, but it took a while and other coaches seeing his continued success with it before developing sets for use in their coaching deck of cards.

The recruiting of height and wingspan specifically for zone is what makes his brand of zone specific and different... And the fact it's all syracuse plays.

The traditional stigma on zone has been it's a defense you play when you have disparity in athleticism with your opponent and can't effectively guard them in a m2m set. Boeheim's flipped that paradigm a bit by putting good BIG athletes into the set that makes things extra difficult for opponents.

It is still annoying that some fans don't accept it. Mich St fans are the worst... Every time we've played them I see their fans discussing our 'gimmick' defense... But they are a pretty arrogant lot...
 

pfister1

2019-20 Iggy Co-Winner Reg Season Rcd
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,632
Like
14,645
Ehhh. My CYO team played 2-3 zone back when JB was still just roll'in the balls out in the 70s.
 

Townie72

All American
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
6,014
Like
6,581
I get what you are saying, however, zone defense existed in the game well before boeheim's tenure and will be around long after he's gone.

It's been a staple defense in international basketball for decades and that fact has nothing to do with JB.

Boeheim has definitely popularized it in recent years in the college game, but it took a while and other coaches seeing his continued success with it before developing sets for use in their coaching deck of cards.

The recruiting of height and wingspan specifically for zone is what makes his brand of zone specific and different... And the fact it's all syracuse plays.

The traditional stigma on zone has been it's a defense you play when you have disparity in athleticism with your opponent and can't effectively guard them in a m2m set. Boeheim's flipped that paradigm a bit by putting good BIG athletes into the set that makes things extra difficult for opponents.

It is still annoying that some fans don't accept it. Mich St fans are the worst... Every time we've played them I see their fans discussing our 'gimmick' defense... But they are a pretty arrogant lot...

All correct, but you left out the "Man to Man Principles" that SU uses that makes the SU different from almost all the zones played. SU just doesn't sit back and defend sections of the court. They pressure the ball out front and trap in corners. It's an aggressive zone as opposed to a passive one.

The length and speed of the players also makes the SU zone different. Longer wingspans block passing lanes that would be open against the same zone played by smaller players. The length of the players make it a different kind of zone defense.

The SU zone is a distant cousin of the zone we learned to play if high school or the CYO.
 

CousCuse

Comin in Hot
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
10,871
Like
8,162
It's called the Enigma Zone. People think they know what it is and then find out it is something different entirely. It has endless situational match up changes that can not be duplicated in practice. This years team has all the requisite parts to make the zone highly effective.
 

jgeorge322

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
9,646
Like
16,318
I get what you are saying, however, zone defense existed in the game well before boeheim's tenure and will be around long after he's gone.

It's been a staple defense in international basketball for decades and that fact has nothing to do with JB.

Boeheim has definitely popularized it in recent years in the college game, but it took a while and other coaches seeing his continued success with it before developing sets for use in their coaching deck of cards.

The recruiting of height and wingspan specifically for zone is what makes his brand of zone specific and different... And the fact it's all syracuse plays.

The traditional stigma on zone has been it's a defense you play when you have disparity in athleticism with your opponent and can't effectively guard them in a m2m set. Boeheim's flipped that paradigm a bit by putting good BIG athletes into the set that makes things extra difficult for opponents.

It is still annoying that some fans don't accept it. Mich St fans are the worst... Every time we've played them I see their fans discussing our 'gimmick' defense... But they are a pretty arrogant lot...

I think you missed or may have avoided my point. Syracuse is known for the 2-3 zone. There have been recruits over the years or commentators who have shown a dislike for the zone. The fact that duke of all teams uses it, and as another poster mentioned, used it all last year, may help destigmatize those feelings. Thats all. Not trying to debate the origins of the zone...
 

FrancoPizza

2018 Iggy Leading Minutes Per Game Winner
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
7,716
Like
10,750
Duke playing zone will make it extremely difficult to score in the rematch, IMO. The difference this year is their guys up top are insanely long, so getting things to Marek at the foul line will be a lot harder.
 

OrangeDW

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Messages
59,129
Like
175,641
I get what you are saying, however, zone defense existed in the game well before boeheim's tenure and will be around long after he's gone.

It's been a staple defense in international basketball for decades and that fact has nothing to do with JB.

Boeheim has definitely popularized it in recent years in the college game, but it took a while and other coaches seeing his continued success with it before developing sets for use in their coaching deck of cards.

The recruiting of height and wingspan specifically for zone is what makes his brand of zone specific and different... And the fact it's all syracuse plays.

The traditional stigma on zone has been it's a defense you play when you have disparity in athleticism with your opponent and can't effectively guard them in a m2m set. Boeheim's flipped that paradigm a bit by putting good BIG athletes into the set that makes things extra difficult for opponents.

It is still annoying that some fans don't accept it. Mich St fans are the worst... Every time we've played them I see their fans discussing our 'gimmick' defense... But they are a pretty arrogant lot...

MSU fans are the epitome of basketball meatheadedness. And they keep getting smacked by Cuse, and they still come back running their mouths the next time we play just the same. It’s pretty incredible.
 

STEVEHOLT

There are FIVE letters in the name BLAIN.
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
14,012
Like
20,572
It's called the Enigma Zone. People think they know what it is and then find out it is something different entirely. It has endless situational match up changes that can not be duplicated in practice. This years team has all the requisite parts to make the zone highly effective.

i thought it was amoeba
 

STEVEHOLT

There are FIVE letters in the name BLAIN.
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
14,012
Like
20,572
I miss the Tark and that those amazing teams...so fun to watch.

i was SOO mad when i was a kid (and still feel somewhat robbed to this day) when UNLV lost to Indiana in the final four so we ended up playing Indiana. Can you imagine that having been a UNLV vs SU finals? I could have taken the loss alot better losing to an all time cool team like UNLV vs losing to that boring ass Hosier team.
 

Townie72

All American
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
6,014
Like
6,581
so boeheim invented zone?

The annoying part about this, Kingtidge, is that you already know this. But I'm going to regurgitate the obvious yet again just in case there is someone that has been on another planet for the last ten years.

What Boeheim has done is to modify the SU zone so that is now something that is related to the zones of the past, but that is different enough so that it probably deserves a different name. Some have tried with "a zone, with Man-to-Man principles" or "an aggressive, not passive zone" or an "amoeba zone"..

And it has evolved from a defensive strategy to a Team Strategy. Recruiting longer players to play the zone is was an extension of it. So rather than just defending a part of the floor, the zone is now clogging up the passing lanes while extending amoeba-like out to challenge shooters at the 3 pt. line and beyond.

And by committing to the 2-3 zone 100%, and getting players to thoroughly understand it, he can make subtle in-game adjustments that would be much more difficult if the zone were just one of the defenses SU played. (Sometimes it's a 2-3 zone and sometimes it's something else)

How many times have you heard the pre-game analysis include, "It's impossible for opposing coaches to simulate the SU zone in practice because the teams can't duplicate the length and the athleticism of the SU players".

We all watch enough college basketball to see other teams using zones at times. But these zones to me look a lot like the one I learned in high school.

Do you really think Coach K. needs help installing a regular zone defense? What he needed was help installing the Syracuse-Boeheim variant of the zone.

No defense is perfect. The SU zone has inherent weaknesses that some teams exploit if they have the right kind of skills and players. (e.g., Pitt over the years). And the more other teams and coaches see it, the less confused by it. In the NCAA's, where teams might have never played against it, its a real SU advantage.
 

andyw715

Starter
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
1,434
Like
2,338
Duke playing zone will make it extremely difficult to score in the rematch, IMO. The difference this year is their guys up top are insanely long, so getting things to Marek at the foul line will be a lot harder.


I'm surprised Duke didn't "adjust" and switch to zone against us, knowing how well we did v GT.
 

HoustonCuse

2020-21 Iggy Winner Lead Scorer & Post Season Rcd
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
11,094
Like
24,475
What is Jones’ status? I’ve been assuming he will be fully back when they come to the dome. And so... no zone.
 

kingtidge

All Conference
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,822
Like
3,641
The annoying part about this, Kingtidge, is that you already know this. But I'm going to regurgitate the obvious yet again just in case there is someone that has been on another planet for the last ten years.

The annoying part about this is we already covered what you wrote in the thread above if you bothered reading the subsequent posts.

It was a nice condescending lecture tho... kudos.
 

Townie72

All American
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
6,014
Like
6,581
The annoying part about this is we already covered what you wrote in the thread above if you bothered reading the subsequent posts.

It was a nice condescending lecture tho... kudos.

I see your point.
 

jgeorge322

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
9,646
Like
16,318
The annoying part about this is we already covered what you wrote in the thread above if you bothered reading the subsequent posts.

It was a nice condescending lecture tho... kudos.

solid example of kettle calling pot black.
 

kingtidge

All Conference
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
2,822
Like
3,641
solid example of kettle calling pot black.

I don't mind anyone having a take...

I just don't like a rehash of what's already posted that starts with a personal insult.
 

jgeorge322

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
9,646
Like
16,318
I don't mind anyone having a take...

I just don't like a rehash of what's already posted that starts with a personal insult.

Lol, so personal insults at the end only?

i accept your apology for hijacking my thread
 

Forum statistics

Threads
161,664
Messages
4,411,580
Members
5,670
Latest member
cusenj

Online statistics

Members online
310
Guests online
974
Total visitors
1,284




Top Bottom