I don't post often...I have bled Orange for 40+ years...

[Ptzburghcuse]

I was a grown man running around like a giddy child when we won the championship in 2003 - I have watched SU basketball since the late 1970's and never have I been so frustrated as to watch SU allow COLGATE to drive continuously down the lane for layups without any help defense - at all - ever.

I can find no other word to describe it but embarrassing...It appears that no one on the team has a defensive mindset. No one seems to have a killer aggressive attitude.

To build a 13pt lead and then almost immediately lose it - Devo put it right - you build a double digit lead, then find out what it takes to move from 13 to 15 then to 20 - not take your foot off the gas and coast!

And the end was also a circus. THREE missed front ends?!?!?!

SU did not deserve to win this game and most teams we face will not miss the opportunities to bury us.

I fear this will be a losing campaign and it could be very, very ugly if they team gives up after the losses start piling up.

I would love nothing more than someone to call me out later this season as to how misguided this post was and that our current team was simply finding itself, but I fear there will be no follow-up.

 

[bballbeadle]

You speak the Truth.

 

[JustPherU]

It’s alarming how bad they looked and the way Red went about his press conference afterwards was a sign he knows it’s could get real ugly around there real soon.

 

[Newhouser]

I don't think we have a chance in the hot spot - but Red and this program need the Texas game badly.

 

[Red Holzman]

It’s alarming how bad they looked and the way Red went about his press conference afterwards was a sign he knows it’s could get real ugly around there real soon.

With the election finally over, looked forward to less spin-
Red's presser sounded like alternative reality -didn't connect with me.
Ready to be shocked and pleased by this "new young team" improving by leaps and bounds.

 

[Orangezoo]

One of my favorite early season things to do is watch the replays and enjoy the growth of our hoops team every year. Last year in Reds year 1 I was still up for it but don’t have it in me this year. More and more being pushed away from a favorite winter season tradition. Cuse football , Cuse hoops and the holiday season. The former still working its way back into the tradition after so much frustration but still not sold but hoops and holidays still always the true star of the season and here we are staring at disappointment. Not to mention the other games aren’t even much to watch. It’s just a crap product let alone our own struggles.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I was a grown man running around like a giddy child when we won the championship in 2003 - I have watched SU basketball since the late 1970's and never have I been so frustrated as to watch SU allow COLGATE to drive continuously down the lane for layups without any help defense - at all - ever.

I can find no other word to describe it but embarrassing...It appears that no one on the team has a defensive mindset. No one seems to have a killer aggressive attitude.

To build a 13pt lead and then almost immediately lose it - Devo put it right - you build a double digit lead, then find out what it takes to move from 13 to 15 then to 20 - not take your foot off the gas and coast!

And the end was also a circus. THREE missed front ends?!?!?!

SU did not deserve to win this game and most teams we face will not miss the opportunities to bury us.

I fear this will be a losing campaign and it could be very, very ugly if they team gives up after the losses start piling up.

I would love nothing more than someone to call me out later this season as to how misguided this post was and that our current team was simply finding itself, but I fear there will be no follow-up.

So right about the defense. Either I’m usually paying attention to other things or yesterday was the most egregiously obvious demonstration that we are absolutely incompetent as m2m defenders. Everyone got blown by, and on several occasions the guy who got torched looked around with hands in the air in exasperation, wondering where the help was. As much as I despise zone, I actually kinda hoped for a short spell of it yesterday.

As I suspected before Red was chosen, after so many years of JB zone, and a staff from that era—why would we expect they could just switch to a new ethos and way of life? The two new coaching additions don’t seem to have made an impact. We might be worse this year than last.

Not sure about the sagacity of the Devo comment about building leads. The other team has something to do with that and they were definitely the smarter team. Yeah, you ‘put your foot on the gas’ when you’re a better team. On a neutral court, we’re probably even with Colgate.

Post more often, please.

 

[two3zone]

It’s alarming how bad they looked and the way Red went about his press conference afterwards was a sign he knows it’s could get real ugly around there real soon.

I just want to know who thought we'd have a passable defense? I'm a middle aged pothead and could see this a mile away.

 

[Orangezoo]

I just want to know who thought we'd have a passable defense? I'm a middle aged pothead and could see this a mile away.

I felt if we were efficient on offense and limited transition opportunities just by default that our defense wouldn’t be as exposed. Also thought Red would use zone more and have a better approach to the defensive rotations. So far there has been none of that and arguably less than last year. What is going on with the assistants input? Griff spent time at Dayton which was a really solid defensive program while he was there I thought.

I don’t think expecting much was realistic but seeing so many issues on both sides of the ball is more than concerning. Gives little hope for the rest of the year.

 

[bnoro]

I was a grown man running around like a giddy child when we won the championship in 2003 - I have watched SU basketball since the late 1970's and never have I been so frustrated as to watch SU allow COLGATE to drive continuously down the lane for layups without any help defense - at all - ever.

I can find no other word to describe it but embarrassing...It appears that no one on the team has a defensive mindset. No one seems to have a killer aggressive attitude.

To build a 13pt lead and then almost immediately lose it - Devo put it right - you build a double digit lead, then find out what it takes to move from 13 to 15 then to 20 - not take your foot off the gas and coast!

And the end was also a circus. THREE missed front ends?!?!?!

SU did not deserve to win this game and most teams we face will not miss the opportunities to bury us.

I fear this will be a losing campaign and it could be very, very ugly if they team gives up after the losses start piling up.

I would love nothing more than someone to call me out later this season as to how misguided this post was and that our current team was simply finding itself, but I fear there will be no follow-up.

Was it more embarrassing than actually losing to Colgate in JB's last two years?

Like I'm not thrilled either but the hyperbole today has actually been embarrassing.

 

[UpstateSM]

I just want to know who thought we'd have a passable defense? I'm a middle aged pothead and could see this a mile away.

Our starting lineup has 3 historically bad defensive players lmao it's at least a little funny if you let yourself laugh

 

[grepal]

Watching UCONN pound Lemoyne gives one an idea of how far we are from where we once were. Team needs to improve on defense today and not just a little. A lot of high school teams play better team D than Syracuse did the first two games. I would love an honest take by JAB. All this said I will still watch or go to every game.

 

[gmacfor3]

Was it more embarrassing than actually losing to Colgate in JB's last two years?

Like I'm not thrilled either but the hyperbole today has actually been embarrassing.

You make a good point…I don’t know if last night was more embarrassing than getting thrashed in back to back years by Colgate. Those were pretty frustrating and as a fan I know I felt like I was being held hostage by JB and his outdated zone defense and poor recruiting. I think the frustration, disappointment, embarrassment, etc. that is being expressed now is a culmination of a decade plus of mediocre teams (I know, I know, one final four and two sweet 16s by 3 pretty mediocre teams). When Red got hired, I think everyone got excited because he brought in starling, Westry, etc. and things looked headed in the right direction. Then another mediocre season was chalked up to some malcontents and Red not being able to get “his” guys. Fast forward to this year, again there’s some added excitement with Freeman coming in, some upper class transfers who would bring maturity and a winning attitude, optimism that Bell and Starling take a leap, etc…then we watch the product on the floor the first two games and yeah…it was embarrassing. Low major guards getting to the rim AT WILL with no resistance. So yeah, those two losses to Colgate might have been more embarrassing, but I don’t think feeling embarrassed or frustrated is a hyperbole. This is Syracuse University basketball. Maybe not a blue blood but historically we are in the next tier. We haven’t been ranked in the top 25 in January or February since 2013!!! People have a right to be upset.

 

[tptcuse]

You make a good point…I don’t know if last night was more embarrassing than getting thrashed in back to back years by Colgate. Those were pretty frustrating and as a fan I know I felt like I was being held hostage by JB and his outdated zone defense and poor recruiting. I think the frustration, disappointment, embarrassment, etc. that is being expressed now is a culmination of a decade plus of mediocre teams (I know, I know, one final four and two sweet 16s by 3 pretty mediocre teams). When Red got hired, I think everyone got excited because he brought in starling, Westry, etc. and things looked headed in the right direction. Then another mediocre season was chalked up to some malcontents and Red not being able to get “his” guys. Fast forward to this year, again there’s some added excitement with Freeman coming in, some upper class transfers who would bring maturity and a winning attitude, optimism that Bell and Starling take a leap, etc…then we watch the product on the floor the first two games and yeah…it was embarrassing. Low major guards getting to the rim AT WILL with no resistance. So yeah, those two losses to Colgate might have been more embarrassing, but I don’t think feeling embarrassed or frustrated is a hyperbole. This is Syracuse University basketball. Maybe not a blue blood but historically we are in the next tier. We haven’t been ranked in the top 25 in January or February since 2013!!! People have a right to be upset.

I like to think I am one of the more optimistic posters here, and this post is spot on.

 

[Orangezoo]

it’s been mentioned a lot but several key points relative to specific moments in both first games.

Vs Lemoyne when we evened the game up with 4 minutes left in the 1H only to then cede a 6 point deficit, then again we go up 65-60 after a Jyare dunk then give up a 3 and play cat and mouse with pulling away and never do. The game should have been put away when we grabbed the game back with 4 mins in the first half but multiple times it should have again in the second half but still wasn’t.

Vs Colgate we built several 8 pt leads in the first half and again should have put them to bed and didn’t. Second half up 13 two times and again should have spread that out quickly and ran away with it. This was an issue last year that is persisting. Different players but same outcome.

A big part also again this year is defending the 3 pt line once we get a lead and defending in transition all the same.

Finally there is zero pressure on the decision makers over two games either. Just too easy to operate. This is why i think Red needs to look long and hard at using more zone and rotate the defenses- especially to offset adjustments allowing teams to get strong starts early on and to claw back from deficits.

These are things that JB managed well for most of his time here until the end. They are things that Red is struggling with mightily so far.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I just want to know who thought we'd have a passable defense? I'm a middle aged pothead and could see this a mile away.

I can't imagine anyone truly believed that. Bell/Starling have proven their lack of D for long enough, and Eddie obviously wasn't going to help a whole lot. A freshman in Donnie and undersized, slow PG in Carlos make this as bad a defensive starting lineup as you can imagine. Not too mention the lack of rim protection.

It also doesn't help that they don't look like they have a clue how to play defense out there, and there doesn't appear to be any philosophy.

 

[MikeSU02]

it’s been mentioned a lot but several key points relative to specific moments in both first games.

Vs Lemoyne when we evened the game up with 4 minutes left in the 1H only to then cede a 6 point deficit, then again we go up 65-60 after a Jyare dunk then give up a 3 and play cat and mouse with pulling away and never do. The game should have been put away when we grabbed the game back with 4 mins in the first half but multiple times it should have again in the second half but still wasn’t.

Vs Colgate we built several 8 pt leads in the first half and again should have put them to bed and didn’t. Second half up 13 two times and again should have spread that out quickly and ran away with it. This was an issue last year that is persisting. Different players but same outcome.

A big part also again this year is defending the 3 pt line once we get a lead and defending in transition all the same.

Finally there is zero pressure on the decision makers over two games either. Just too easy to operate. This is why i think Red needs to look long and hard at using more zone and rotate the defenses- especially to offset adjustments allowing teams to get strong starts early on and to claw back from deficits.

These are things that JB managed well for most of his time here until the end. They are things that Red is struggling with mightily so far.

I'm torn on rotating in zone as one of the defenses we use and here is why: I saw a team that can't do basic stuff in M2M and was confused on basic screens.

I'm not sure if this team can play zone at an acceptable level if it can't handle the basics of M2M. I mean, maybe? And I think zone at least would potentially allow Naheem to get on the floor. But I don't think this team would be any better in zone than with man.

 

[IraSez]

This thread is depressing the crap out of me mostly because I don't disagree with it!

 

[Orangezoo]

I'm torn on rotating in zone as one of the defenses we use and here is why: I saw a team that can't do basic stuff in M2M and was confused on basic screens.

I'm not sure if this team can play zone at an acceptable level if it can't handle the basics of M2M. I mean, maybe? And I think zone at least would potentially allow Naheem to get on the floor. But I don't think this team would be any better in zone than with man.

I think as a staff you have seek out and attempt solutions. Zone is an easy thing to point out to get Naheem on the floor and defend the rim and make better use of the size that’s available at guard. Also something that if you can get anything out of Chance - it’s probably a way to leverage his skillsets while he tries to get into shape. Still you could insert separate idea here with my referring to zone and being more just about adjustments.

All of that said I mean I don’t disagree at all in terms of it may not make us any better.

There is clearly the ability to do things in stretches we need to be a decent team but then the stretches of the opposite are very much something that’s been a dynamic under Red with mostly different rosters. That lack of hunger and intensity too- it was nowhere last year, lacked in JBs last few years and is still there.

 

[Cuse99&01]

I can't imagine anyone truly believed that. Bell/Starling have proven their lack of D for long enough, and Eddie obviously wasn't going to help a whole lot. A freshman in Donnie and undersized, slow PG in Carlos make this as bad a defensive starting lineup as you can imagine. Not too mention the lack of rim protection.

It also doesn't help that they don't look like they have a clue how to play defense out there, and there doesn't appear to be any philosophy.

Agree with the comment related to lack of defensive philosophy. There are some very obvious defensive concerns with individual players on this team- whether that be ability/skill, desire/want to play defense, or a combination of the two. That aside through the first two games there doesn't appear to be an obvious style of M2M defense being played. It has looked like a pick up game with guys only concerned about 'trying' to guard their man. Good defensive teams have a philosophy/scheme they try to implement. Whether that be a lot of ball pressure/denial (WVU under Huggins), pack line defense (Virginia), emphasizing gap coverage (Michigan State)...solid schemes/plans are just as important as the abilities of the individual defender.

 

[721Comstock]

I'm torn on rotating in zone as one of the defenses we use and here is why: I saw a team that can't do basic stuff in M2M and was confused on basic screens.

I'm not sure if this team can play zone at an acceptable level if it can't handle the basics of M2M. I mean, maybe? And I think zone at least would potentially allow Naheem to get on the floor. But I don't think this team would be any better in zone than with man.

How was it that teams like Duke and Llvll, who were predominantly M2M, could then switch to 2-3 zone for periods of time, and be reasonably proficient and successful with it??

I mean, yes, we're talking K & Pitino, 2 of the best coaches to ever walk too far onto the court to complain.

But it can be done.

I'm absolutely not saying we go back to all 2-3, all the time.

But - perhaps when Highlander is in the middle, we take advantage of the ONE THING that he is REALLY REALLY GOOD at, and utilize a defensive strategy to maximize that goodness?

While also switching things up such that our opponents can't just utilize one strategy to attack us.

Also - given that we have a large # of scholarship bodes - why not run the "trunk monkey" press now and again?
And not just when we're down 20, and it's a desperation move.

 

[Toga]

I just want to know who thought we'd have a passable defense? I'm a middle aged pothead and could see this a mile away.

 

[MikeSU02]

How was it that teams like Duke and Llvll, who were predominantly M2M, could then switch to 2-3 zone for periods of time, and be reasonably proficient and successful with it??

I mean, yes, we're talking K & Pitino, 2 of the best coaches to ever walk too far onto the court to complain.

But it can be done.

I'm absolutely not saying we go back to all 2-3, all the time.

But - perhaps when Highlander is in the middle, we take advantage of the ONE THING that he is REALLY REALLY GOOD at, and utilize a defensive strategy to maximize that goodness?

While also switching things up such that our opponents can't just utilize one strategy to attack us.

Also - given that we have a large # of scholarship bodes - why not run the "trunk monkey" press now and again?
And not just when we're down 20, and it's a desperation move.

Our guys mess up switches. I'm not sure they can handle slides. I, too, don't think it should be an issue in a regular year, but we just may have a real inability between skill and coaching with this group to be able to pull it off.

But, maybe? I dunno.

 

[Toga]

Our guys mess up switches. I'm not sure they can handle slides. I, too, don't think it should be an issue in a regular year, but we just may have a real inability between skill and coaching with this group to be able to pull it off.

But, maybe? I dunno.

Seems like basic stuff. But what do I know?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Is Naheem available?