Interesting recruiting question/answer within Athletic mailbag article

[chugg21]

For those with grandiose expectations and that talk about our recruiting footprint not being that bad...

In the fantasy world where all program histories are erased and everybody is equal, what are the three best and three worst campus locations for recruiting in 2023? — T.J. S.

I’m going to stick to the Power 5 on this question. Lets get into it.

The top three most advantageous geographical locations for programs:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Miami
3. Houston

All three are located in or right next to a city with a ton of elite talent. And then, if you expand out beyond the city, each state is also loaded with players.

The three worst geographical situations:

1. Syracuse
2. Washington State
3. Oregon State

Those three programs are in no-man’s land as it pertains to high school football talent.

 

[Cuse12]

For those with grandiose expectations and that talk about our recruiting footprint not being that bad...

In the fantasy world where all program histories are erased and everybody is equal, what are the three best and three worst campus locations for recruiting in 2023? — T.J. S.

I’m going to stick to the Power 5 on this question. Lets get into it.

The top three most advantageous geographical locations for programs:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Miami
3. Houston

All three are located in or right next to a city with a ton of elite talent. And then, if you expand out beyond the city, each state is also loaded with players.

The three worst geographical situations:

1. Syracuse
2. Washington State
3. Oregon State

Those three programs are in no-man’s land as it pertains to high school football talent.

Sigh. But, the great thing is we are within earshot of PA, NJ, NYC. Granted we aren’t in the backyard, but at least we are close. We absolutely have our struggles, but others overcome those. They have Oregon state as bad, but not Oregon. They have Washington state as a bad spot, but not UW. You can still
Succeed. Winning cures all, and we have an uphill battle on our hands, but we I think are trending in the right direction.

 

[sutomcat]

For those with grandiose expectations and that talk about our recruiting footprint not being that bad...

In the fantasy world where all program histories are erased and everybody is equal, what are the three best and three worst campus locations for recruiting in 2023? — T.J. S.

I’m going to stick to the Power 5 on this question. Lets get into it.

The top three most advantageous geographical locations for programs:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Miami
3. Houston

All three are located in or right next to a city with a ton of elite talent. And then, if you expand out beyond the city, each state is also loaded with players.

The three worst geographical situations:

1. Syracuse
2. Washington State
3. Oregon State

Those three programs are in no-man’s land as it pertains to high school football talent.

I think this is just wrong.

States like Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah, Kansas have worse setups geographically that we do.

We are right next to Pennsylvania and NJ. NYC has some talent. The Connecticut prep schools have a bunch of D1 players each year. And Canada is becoming a major source of D1 talent each year and we are better located to take advantage of it than any other P5 school.

And Ohio is only a short drive away.

 

[upperdeck]

I guess if they consider recruiting to be inside a 50 mile window its correct.

 

[chugg21]

I think this is just wrong.

States like Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah, Kansas have worse setups geographically that we do.

We are right next to Pennsylvania and NJ. NYC has some talent. The Connecticut prep schools have a bunch of D1 players each year. And Canada is becoming a major source of D1 talent each year and we are better located to take advantage of it than any other P5 school.

And Ohio is only a short drive away.

In regards to within the actual state borders...

2023 football recruits available by state:
NY: 0 4 stars, 12 3 stars
MN: 2 4 stars, 16 3 stars
NE: 1 4 star, 14 3 stars
UT: 4 4 stars, 35 3 stars
KS: 5 4 stars, 15 3 stars

 

[qdawgg]

Are HS players only allowed to play college in their respective states... Some of our best players have been from Florida, most of the best NY players don't even give us a sniff. So it's somewhat of a misguided idea overall.

 

[Newhouser]

Are HS players only allowed to play college in their respective states... Some of our best players have been from Florida, most of the best NY players don't even give us a sniff. So it's somewhat of a misguided idea overall.

It is misleading but we have plenty of people on this board who think it is imperative to own NY. I don't think we should waste any resources here, but some people believe it.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I think this is just wrong.

States like Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah, Kansas have worse setups geographically that we do.

We are right next to Pennsylvania and NJ. NYC has some talent. The Connecticut prep schools have a bunch of D1 players each year. And Canada is becoming a major source of D1 talent each year and we are better located to take advantage of it than any other P5 school.

And Ohio is only a short drive away.

Atlanta, Miami, Houston. The answer addresses talent in the backyard, not a 3/4 of a tank of gas drive away.

 

[chugg21]

Are HS players only allowed to play college in their respective states... Some of our best players have been from Florida, most of the best NY players don't even give us a sniff. So it's somewhat of a misguided idea overall.

Home state recruiting is the backbone of recruiting for P5 schools. Have some schools starting on 3rd base while we're up to bat with one hand tied behind our back. Just sucks no matter what kind of spin we try to put on it to feel better about the situation.

 

[Cusefan95]

It is misleading but we have plenty of people on this board who think it is imperative to own NY. I don't think we should waste any resources here, but some people believe it.

Some of the NYS section 4 schools (combined) used to produce a handful of DI caliber players when I was in high school. I went to a playoff game between U-E and Vestal (I think) a couple years ago and was shocked at the low level of play now.

30 years ago there was some value in “owning NYS”…people advocating for that now are living in the past and aren’t aware that NYS high school football imploded at least a decade ago.

 

[tep624]

It is misleading but we have plenty of people on this board who think it is imperative to own NY. I don't think we should waste any resources here, but some people believe it.

People just need to stop with the owning NY nonsense. You have to own NYC in order to own NY, because the bulk of the blue chip talent comes from there. And that is never, ever happening due to the dynamics of the city kids and what they value relatively speaking.

It’s more important that we develop relationships with feeder programs no matter where they are and then bust ass scouting and on the trail to find talent.

There just isn’t enough upside to what the program is capable of landing out of NYS to really move the needle. NYS is and should be a supplemental part of our recruiting classes.

 

[sutomcat]

Atlanta, Miami, Houston. The answer addresses talent in the backyard, not a 3/4 of a tank of gas drive away.

First. the article discussed expanding beyond the city.

That said, there isn't a ton of talent in the places I referenced either. We have more talent a few hours away.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think this is just wrong.

States like Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah, Kansas have worse setups geographically that we do.

We are right next to Pennsylvania and NJ. NYC has some talent. The Connecticut prep schools have a bunch of D1 players each year. And Canada is becoming a major source of D1 talent each year and we are better located to take advantage of it than any other P5 school.

And Ohio is only a short drive away.

Utah high schools churn out a bizarrely high number of D1 players.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

First. the article discussed expanding beyond the city.

That said, there isn't a ton of talent in the places I referenced either. We have more talent a few hours away.

Yeah, but those states care more about football than New York does.

Utah is growing (plus several Utah schools have unique recruitment circumstances), Minnesota has beefy fellows, 8-Man is a religion in Nebraska.

Edit 1: Plus, Kansas has some of the most competitive JUCO football in the country.

Edit 2: All of the states you mention have flagship state schools with large appeal. The private-ness of Syracuse and the fragmented nature of the state of New York doesn’t net the same unity.

 

[sutomcat]

Yeah, but those states care more about football than New York does.

Utah is growing (plus several Utah schools have unique recruitment circumstances), Minnesota has beefy fellows, 8-Man is a religion in Nebraska.

Edit 1: Plus, Kansas has some of the most competitive JUCO football in the country.

Edit 2: All of the states you mention have flagship state schools with large appeal. The private-ness of Syracuse and the fragmented nature of the state of New York doesn’t net the same unity.

You are all over the place on this but here is a response.

The article wasn't about caring about football.

You can count JUCOs in Kansas but I can't count prep school players in Connecticut?

8 man football is not a good indicator that an area is a football hotbed.

You seem to be focusing on cities only. So are you saying Lawrence and Manhattan Kansas, Ames, Iowa City, and places like that are far better recruiting areas than Syracuse?

I agree it is easier to recruit as a flagship state school and in an area that produces a lot of P5 prospects. But things could be and are worse for other P5 schools.

Not interested in discussing this further.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

You are all over the place on this but here is a response.

The article wasn't about caring about football.

You can count JUCOs in Kansas but I can't count prep school players in Connecticut?

8 man football is not a good indicator that an area is a football hotbed.

You seem to be focusing on cities only. So are you saying Lawrence and Manhattan Kansas, Ames, Iowa City, and places like that are far better recruiting areas than Syracuse?

I agree it is easier to recruit as a flagship state school and in an area that produces a lot of P5 prospects. But things could be and are worse for other P5 schools.

You say I'm all over the place. I say this discussion requires that because there's no single way for a program to recruit successfully.

But I'll take your responses line-by-line.

1) I think there's a strong correlation between interest in high school football and the talent that is output. See Chugg's post above - states much smaller in population than New York produce more talent rated on 247. While I'm not fully sure of the reasons why NYS isn't putting out more talent, I think general interest is one of them.
2) Kansas JUCOs are in the same state as Kansas and Kansas State. Connecticut prep schools are not in the same state as New York. If there were prep schools in New York turning out P5 talent any more (ie, New Milford), that's a different discussion.
3) There's an 8-man football player from Nebraska being pursued by Alabama. Also, see Answer #1.
4) I'm arguing that a kid from Nebraska who grew up 4 hours from Lincoln or a kid from Iowa who grew up 4 hours from Ames is going to have more of a connection to that state school than a kid from Westchester County is to Syracuse. No one really cares about Syracuse University outside of CNY unless they went there. Which ties in to your last point.

 

[All4SU]

You also have to consider how much competition exists within your “home” area. Great if you have lots of talent in your backyard, but how many top schools are also in that footprint? There may not be as many top players in NY… but there are way fewer schools right on top of them too.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

You also have to consider how much competition exists within your “home” area. Great if you have lots of talent in your backyard, but how many top schools are also in that footprint? There may not be as many top players in NY… but there are way fewer schools right on top of them too.

I think the purpose of the answer provided in the OP is to say "these schools have the most immediately nearby talent", exclusive of anyone else coming in to sniff around for it.

 

[SmilinBob]

Regarding the "home" area, I hope SU gets the players they want if they think they are worth offering, especially if they are a top type of talent. Being better gets those guys to often stay home but do understand why they would like to see what it's like to live or go somewhere else.

 

[All4SU]

I think the purpose of the answer provided in the OP is to say "these schools have the most immediately nearby talent", exclusive of anyone else coming in to sniff around for it.

I got that. What I’m saying is, it’s great to have a couple dozen good egg-laying chickens in the hen house. But the more foxes that can get in there, the worse off you will be.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I got that. What I’m saying is, it’s great to have a couple dozen good egg-laying chickens in the hen house. But the more foxes that can get in there, the worse off you will be.

The Top 25 recruits for New Jersey, according to 247, are going to 20 different schools. I see your point.

 

[zjscuse]

I think this is just wrong.

States like Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah, Kansas have worse setups geographically that we do.

We are right next to Pennsylvania and NJ. NYC has some talent. The Connecticut prep schools have a bunch of D1 players each year. And Canada is becoming a major source of D1 talent each year and we are better located to take advantage of it than any other P5 school.

And Ohio is only a short drive away.

If we could just get the canadien kids to stay!

 

[orange79]

You also have to consider how much competition exists within your “home” area. Great if you have lots of talent in your backyard, but how many top schools are also in that footprint?

Ah, the Rutgers Conundrum.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I guess if they consider recruiting to be inside a 50 mile window its correct.

The biggest thing that matters is "can I see my kids play?"

If you can drive to a game within 4 hours, and if the school plays in your geographic "TV footprint", the answer is "yes", and all recruiting is equal within that driving range.

Remember when Scranton used to send 50 buses of people to see McNamara play?

It's not how many players are "right here"; it's "how many players are close enough that their parents can watch them play".

 

[Cusefan95]

The top three most advantageous geographical locations for programs:

1. Georgia Tech
2. Miami
3. Houston

All three are located in or right next to a city with a ton of elite talent. And then, if you expand out beyond the city, each state is also loaded with players.

The three worst geographical situations:

1. Syracuse
2. Washington State
3. Oregon State

Those three programs are in no-man’s land as it pertains to high school football talent.

The more I think about this, the lazier this answer starts to look. If the best geographical situation is biased towards a large city in a state with a lot of talent - where is USC? If the argument is UCLA splits the city - why does that matter - shouldn’t BOTH be in the top 3 then? The LA schools should be ahead of Houston at minimum. If being in a state with a lot of talent is a criteria, that’s kinda dumb - it creates a somewhat artificial geographic boundary instead of a common “within 150 mile radius” that would apply evenly to all schools.

I generally agree Syracuse’s geographical location creates recruiting challenges. But I’m skeptical we’re in a substantially worse situation than trying to convince a kid to go to Ames, Iowa. And Texas Tech is in the middle of friggin’ nowhere - they’re getting undeserved bonus points (I think) for being in Texas without accounting for the fact it’s a gigantic state.

It’s really a stupid, irrelevant question though - so I suppose a stupid and lazy answer is appropriate.