Interesting take on SU/UK

[Upstate]

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@TheHoopsReportThe Hoops Report​

Syracuse is the clear cut overall #1 seed right now. No other team's resume even has a good argument right now.​

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15 minutes ago via web

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TheHoopsReport The Hoops Report

Syracuse and Kentucky don't even compare right now. There are barely any resume categories in which UK has an advantage over Cuse.
12 minutes ago ​

 

[Garbs]

it's true, the real difference is that the idiots that vote for the polls just look at nba draft projections and assume UK is better than cuse

 

[Orangezoo]

su has 13 top 100 rpi wins.. uk has 6 .. but they have 2 top 10 wins .. seems to always be how they look at it

 

[TexanMark]

Don't forget you should apply the "eye test"

Computers take you so far but I think you need to look at the big picture. I wouldn't have a huge issue with UK as a #1 overall right now...Cuse has a great opportunity to shut up detractors in Feb.

 

[pfister1]

Syracuse isn't even a number 1 right now unless they get Fab back. They have to earn it back by proving they can still be as good a team without him as with him. They are in a great position to do so, but with the question of whether or not Fab comes back this season still open, and at least 9-10 games remaining on most everyone's schedule any discussions of overall #1 are fun but meaningless.

 

[SouthernCuse]

Don't forget you should apply the "eye test"

Computers take you so far but I think you need to look at the big picture. I wouldn't have a huge issue with UK as a #1 overall right now...Cuse has a great opportunity to shut up detractors in Feb.

The voting margin is what gets me 31-0, 61-2-2, its like the voters couldn't wait to put UK on top and set things right with the world. Obviously, based on the numbers this year, the case is not that clear cut.

It also appears that we need Fab to be in this discussion.

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

Syracuse isn't even a number 1 right now unless they get Fab back. They have to earn it back by proving they can still be as good a team without him as with him. They are in a great position to do so, but with the question of whether or not Fab comes back this season still open, and at least 9-10 games remaining on most everyone's schedule any discussions of overall #1 are fun but meaningless.

Beauty is they have plenty of time to show his loss will not cripple them, unless it does

 

[Oakland]

Kentucky has beaten UNC and KU - we don't have wins like that. They lost once, on the road, by 1 pt, to a red hot IU team.

 

[HoustonCuse]

A 7 games series between a full-power Syracuse and Kentucky would be a helluva thing. I couldn't tell you who would win that. But I would not be betting money on Syracuse. That series won't happen, so who cares. If we take care of business, we will once again sneak into the #1 spot like a burglar in the night.

(ps I would also not be betting against Syracuse)

 

[690West]

Syracuse isn't even a number 1 right now unless they get Fab back. They have to earn it back by proving they can still be as good a team without him as with him. They are in a great position to do so, but with the question of whether or not Fab comes back this season still open, and at least 9-10 games remaining on most everyone's schedule any discussions of overall #1 are fun but meaningless.

Wait, what have we done to lose a 1 seed? I'm confused. Unless you're talking eye test without fab? Loss on the road to hottest BE team?

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

Wait, what have we done to lose a 1 seed? I'm confused. Unless you're talking eye test without fab? Loss on the road to hottest BE team?

Who until this year had a wicked long home winning streak? give me a break that is not a bad loss at all, I'd even compare it to at Indiana

 

[690West]

Who until this year had a wicked long home winning streak? give me a break that is not a bad loss at all, I'd even compare it to at Indiana

Bingo.

 

[pfister1]

Wait, what have we done to lose a 1 seed? I'm confused. Unless you're talking eye test without fab? Loss on the road to hottest BE team?

Well since FAB is back it's irrelevant, but what the point I was trying to make is that unless we kept winning on a similar pace as before Melo went out a lot of what we had accomplished would be tossed out the window in evaluating our seeding and it would be much more heavily weighted on what happened down the stretch.

Now, with him back, it may actually work to our advantage in that the loss at Notre Dame could and probably should be discounted entirely by the committee.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think you can compare ND to Indiana.

 

[690West]

Well since FAB is back it's irrelevant, but what the point I was trying to make is that unless we kept winning on a similar pace as before Melo went out a lot of what we had accomplished would be tossed out the window in evaluating our seeding and it would be much more heavily weighted on what happened down the stretch.

Now, with him back, it may actually work to our advantage in that the loss at Notre Dame could and probably should be discounted entirely by the committee.

Ahh. got it.

 

[690West]

I don't think you can compare ND to Indiana.

Good point. UND wins that game fairly easily

 

[690West]

Good point. UND wins that game fairly easily

oof! I'm wrong. Sagarin has Hoosiers as 8 point neutral favorite.

 

[cuseincincy]

su has 13 top 100 rpi wins.. uk has 6 .. but they have 2 top 10 wins .. seems to always be how they look at it

2 top 10 wins is the the trump card to me and obviously many voters. Not SU's fault that no one on our schedule will give us a top 10 game this year but it still matters in the court of opinion. If it was poker the ace high club flush wins even if the other guy has a 7 hearts with a 10 high. In a 3 game series I'd probably pick UK. In a 7 game series I'd pick SU. One game is a pickem.

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

I don't think you can compare ND to Indiana.

Why not?

17-5 vs 14-8

Both have wins at home against #1 teams
Notre Dame has 4 losses to top 25 teams, has beaten 4 ranked teams (at time they played them)
Indiana has 3 losses to top 25 teams, has only those 2 wins against top 25 teams

ND's only home loss is UCONN who was 16th when they played them, not a bad loss at all
Indiana's only home loss is Minnesota much worse loss
Indiana also lost to Nebraska

look, Indiana's resume isn't even neccessarily better at this point, their two wins are against #1 and #2 at the time, but ND has a win against #1 as well

so ND has played 8 ranked teams including current #2, #4, and is 4-4
Indiana has played 5 ranked teams including current #1 and #3 and are 2-3

at the least the resumes and teams are in fact comparable

Indiana .500 in Big 10 5-5
ND 6-3 Big East

 

[reedny]

Why not?

17-5 vs 14-8

Both have wins at home against #1 teams
Notre Dame has 4 losses to top 25 teams, has beaten 4 ranked teams (at time they played them)
Indiana has 3 losses to top 25 teams, has only those 2 wins against top 25 teams

ND's only home loss is UCONN who was 16th when they played them, not a bad loss at all
Indiana's only home loss is Minnesota much worse loss
Indiana also lost to Nebraska

look, Indiana's resume isn't even neccessarily better at this point, their two wins are against #1 and #2 at the time, but ND has a win against #1 as well

so ND has played 8 ranked teams including current #2, #4, and is 4-4
Indiana has played 5 ranked teams including current #1 and #3 and are 2-3

at the least the resumes and teams are in fact comparable

Indiana .500 in Big 10 5-5
ND 6-3 Big East

They're not only comparable resume's, I think it's fair to say one team's headed up (ND), the other's headed down.

First of all, ND beat SU (#1 at the time), which compares with Indian's victory over Kentucky. More recently, ND's won 3 straight, including 2 tough conference road games (at SH and UConn) and 4 of its last 6 games. It's tied for 3d in the BE with a 6-3 record.

Indiana has lost 4 of its last 6 games and is 6th in the Big Ten with a 5-5 record. It still has a higher ranking (20 AP versus 32 AP for ND), but the trajectories are totally different right now.

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

2 top 10 wins is the the trump card to me and obviously many voters. Not SU's fault that no one on our schedule will give us a top 10 game this year but it still matters in the court of opinion.

Interestingly enough, preseason we had a ton of top 10 teams scheduled, you can't fault some teams for faltering.
Louisville was as high as #4, we play them twice
UCONN was as high as #4, we play them twice
Florida was # 9 when we played them
Pitt was as high as #11

I mean L'ville and UCONN and Pitt not being as good as advertised is not Syracuse's problem

 

[Garbs]

I don't think you can compare ND to Indiana.

I think they are comparing their home court advantage not actual teams

 

[Knicks411]

Indiana also beat Notre Dame by 11 this year.

I'm just saying you can't compare (well, favorably at least) the loss of Kentucky by 1 point at Indiana to SU losing by double digits at ND. Indiana is struggling right now, but I still think they are a much better team than ND. Though to be fair, ND is definitely getting their act together right now. Statement may look a lot worse in a month or so.

 

[Garbs]

Indiana also beat Notre Dame by 11 this year.

I'm just saying you can't compare (well, favorably at least) the loss of Kentucky by 1 point at Indiana to SU losing by double digits at ND. Indiana is struggling right now, but I still think they are a much better team than ND. Though to be fair, ND is definitely getting their act together right now. Statement may look a lot worse in a month or so.

did UK play that game without their starting center?

 

[Knicks411]

did UK play that game without their starting center?

That's fair. But I still don't think it makes up the difference. UK lost to a good team (still think Indiana is good), we lost to a team that I still don't think isn't all that good.

Though like I said, ND does seem to be playing a lot better right now. So maybe it's closer than I give it credit for.