Is our defense really that bad?

[DomeHolmes]

I thought there would be a lot of good bad and ugly when I looked hard, but there’s really mostly good and a little bit of very ugly. Almost no Bad. Statistically we are actually a middle of the pack ACC defense as far as total yards, but a top defense in many statistical categories, and ugly in 2.

A lot of the perception about the defense has to do with:
-Ohio game, that was an aberration and we have not looked as clueless for 4qtrs since
- 5 minutes of the second quarter versus Holy Cross with two blown coverages.
-the last eight minutes of Georgia Tech. Before that it was good
-the last 10 minutes of NC State. Before that pretty good.

Our two big defensive collapses came with comfortable leads against Georgia Tech and NC State where we played prevent defense at the end. Is it the prevent defense? Are we losing focus because we have comfortable leads? Can that be corrected?

The ugly part is two things. First we give up over 6 yds per play, third to last in the ACC, and we are dead last in the ACC in giving up 40+ yard plays.

However, those things are not necessarily as bad as they seem for a few reasons:

-Despite being dead LAST in the ACC in 40+ yard plays given up, we are actually just two plays away from being THIRD in 20 yard plays given up. So we are giving up too many explosive plays, but not getting “gashed repeatedly”. Our yards per play given up is largely a result of these big plays.

-Another reason is that we are 1 third down stop away from being the BEST in the ACC in third down percentage. So when we’re not giving up the big play. We’re pretty good at getting off the field.

Finally our Redzone defense is second in the ACC in giving up the fewest touchdowns, (45%) So a middle of a pack defense yardage wise, giving up second fewest touchdowns, is a good combo.

After the Ohio game, in 20 quarters (300 minutes) we are actually giving up ONLY 282 yards per game, (with the exception of just 18 minutes total of 4th quarter issues vs GT & NCST). We gave up 287 yards in those 18 minutes! Pushing our total to 340/ game in those 5 games.

So over the first 94% of the time of our games we have among the BEST defenses in the ACC. (and the last 18 minutes over two games (6%) have been a disaster). So as I started out with, could we focus better, or change the prevent defense when we get in similar situations? I hope so.

So in conclusion, for the majority of the games except for the last 18 minutes (total) of two games where we had big leads, we have been a COMPETENT defense. (if we could tackle, I might even consider us a good defense).


Note: we are also aided by the fact that our offense Is #7 in TOP, helping to keep our defense off the field.

 

[Dcuse]

The problem is pretty much every team can " Spin Doctor" their performances too in order to come up with positivity. You do come up with some really good points however to work on weaknesses.

 

[NKR1978]

The red zone defense to me is the strongest argument. You're not going to stop them all, but they seem to do a pretty good job of turning 7 into 3, getting a stop or forcing a TO.

We also seem to get a stop when wereally need one (other than Stanford).

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We’re playing 3D chess.

Every other team is playing “throw the ball to the wide open receiver”.

 

[swish7]

A great defense controls the outcome of games & keeps us in games against superior opponents. Ala Freeneys senior year. We have a few great players, but not a great team D.

A 'good defense' is at least consistent. We are not a good defense.

What's interesting, is I am noticing some players making great plays during one moment, then abysmal plays at another point. Obviously, McDonald comes to mind. #23 as well. Caused the fumble one play, but was in the gang of 5 missed tacklers on the 72 yard play, barely giving effort & grasping at air as the person blew through us.

I have no idea if our DBs are slow or not.

We are not a good defense. We are a bad D w potential to be good. Giving up too many chunk plays. Cannot tackle. Hell, the offense is slowing itself down to keep our D off the field.

Tackling can be coached up.

Scheming is on the coaches.

Effort & heart is a huge part of D & is on the players.

 

[Newhouser]

The red zone defense to me is the strongest argument. You're not going to stop them all, but they seem to do a pretty good job of turning 7 into 3, getting a stop or forcing a TO.

We also seem to get a stop when wereally need one (other than Stanford).

Red zone performance will determine our season. Can our O score TD's (essential with our kicking game) and can the D force FG's.

 

[DomeHolmes]

The problem is pretty much every team can " Spin Doctor" their performances too in order to come up with positivity. You do come up with some really good points however to work on weaknesses.

Agreed, if these letdowns were coming in the middle of the games at various points I would say it’s just part of the game, and wouldn’t have posted. I only did because there seems to be a lot of doom and gloom. The two “meltdowns” in Georgia Tech and NC State were remarkably similar With 17 point leads and lack of focus for a few minutes.

But third down conversion rate and red zone defense prowess and ok total yards are what they are, good signs things aren’t as bad as the few bad minutes make us look.

 

[CNYGuy]

They're giving up 21.8 points per game in regulation (remove 10 points from UNLV due to blocked punt score that the defense had no part in and the OT field goal).

Could be better, not deserving of the heat they're getting IMO.

 

[Apdaly]

I think a lot of reason that our defensive numbers over that period have been strong is bc as swish pointed out. The offense plays keep away, so that our defense doesn’t have to play more than 4 series a half.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Potentially, getting back two of our best defenders can only help.

 

[kcsu]

Coaches know we have holes all over the D side of the ball and they are playing the long game. We simply don't have the talent to rush the passer, contain a running QB and go to man-to-man coverage. Our best D is to make teams sustain long drives. Getting Buxton who is in my opinion one of our best tacklers in the secondary, Barnes who is our best cover corner, and Wax who is our QB and best all-around defender is going to help a ton. Basically 30% of the D talent will be upgraded.

 

[DomeHolmes]

A great defense controls the outcome of games & keeps us in games against superior opponents. Ala Freeneys senior year. We have a few great players, but not a great team D.

A 'good defense' is at least consistent. We are not a good defense.

What's interesting, is I am noticing some players making great plays during one moment, then abysmal plays at another point. Obviously, McDonald comes to mind. #23 as well. Caused the fumble one play, but was in the gang of 5 missed tacklers on the 72 yard play, barely giving effort & grasping at air as the person blew through us.

I have no idea if our DBs are slow or not.

We are not a good defense. We are a bad D w potential to be good.

Tackling can be coached up.

Scheming is on the coaches.

Effort & heart is a huge part of D & is on the players.

Agreed, McDonald, Grant and deuce come to mind as the three that have been the most inconsistent for sure. Good plays and bad plays.

as far as tackling being coached up, I’ve expressed this in a few other threads, those three guys are upperclassmen, as are most of our back 7. We will not be able to coach up their tackling in six weeks if they’re not good/consistent tacklers after playing football for 10+ years. That tackling part was bad versus Ohio, has continued to be bad, and will still be bad going forward. We’re halfway through the season and it has not been coached up yet. But despite that as I posted, I think we’ve been OK Overall.


I would respectfully disagree that we have been overall “bad“ except for the last 10 minutes of NC State and the last eight minutes of Georgia Tech.

 

[swish7]

We will not be able to coach up their tackling in six weeks if they’re not good/consistent tacklers after playing football for 10+ years.

Good point.

The meat of our schedule is coming up. Some great QBs are coming. The chickens are coming to roost.

It could be worse. I've seen dudes running open against our D & inexperienced QBs failing to make basic reads & throws against it, overthrowing open dudes. We've benefitted from this. We'll see.

Hopefully Wax can make us whole.

I harp on the tackling because I assumed it was core to DART. That the whole off-season would be committed to tackling excellence. But, it appears to be an afterthought. Looks too much like our bad tackling of the last 25 years. I guess they want to recruit their way out of the problem. Who knows?
 

 

[RF2044]

The extended absence of Wax / Barnes has had an impact on the D's performance, too.

 

[upperdeck]

Lets hope so,

Better consistent play in the center of the field
Better cover corner play

and also, it allows us to use Diggs in more spots as a play maker. He has been our spy trying to be the main LB and sometimes a rush end. Maybe we see more 4 man fronts again or maybe we mix up the spy more now.

 

[GoSU96]

Like I noted earlier this week, 25% of yards allowed is on 10 plays, 4 runs and 6 passes. Tighten that up and the defense looks a lot better.

They don’t have a choice if they want to beat Pitt, which relies on big plays.

 

[upperdeck]

One good thing about the D
We have really only trailed for the Stan game
Beginning of Ohio then dominated
Never trailed vs GT HC NC St
A small amount vs UNLV

 

[upperdeck]

Like I noted earlier this week, 25% of yards allowed is on 10 plays, 4 runs and 6 passes. Tighten that up and the defense looks a lot better.

They don’t have a choice if they want to beat Pitt, which relies on big plays.

Pitt has won several of the most recent games vs us because of big plays.

 

[RF2044]

I will say that the pass rush is generally ineffectual.

Diggs seems to be the only one who can get upfield and make plays in the backfield. Otherwise, we tend to rush three a lot and don't get much pressure on QBs. That's why a true frosh [like the one we faced last week] looks so good -- they can stand in the pocket and pick us apart.

 

[DomeHolmes]

Lets hope so,

Better consistent play in the center of the field
Better cover corner play

and also, it allows us to use Diggs in more spots as a play maker. He has been our spy trying to be the main LB and sometimes a rush end. Maybe we see more 4 man fronts again or maybe we mix up the spy more now.

I certainly hope we see more 4 man fronts on passing downs. The real weakness of our defense is, (aside from tackling) with literally no pressure from our three man pass rush, it will allow good teams to run two or three verticals. It’s easy to confuse cover 2 (or even cover 3 with that). Those routes were there against NC State, but fortunately their QB did not see a few. If Lewis could play man, and cover 2 elsewhere, it becomes easier in my opinion.

Pitt might be the best team we’ve played to exploit it. But I think if we stop their vertical game we win, and if we can’t we lose.

 

[DomeHolmes]

They're giving up 21.8 points per game in regulation (remove 10 points from UNLV due to blocked punt score that the defense had no part in and the OT field goal).

Could be better, not deserving of the heat they're getting IMO.

Exactly. Also the pick six was not a defensive point.

And we are not a “bad“ defense. We are actually ranked number 67 which would be the definition of average. after we corrected the issues against the run game after Ohio, we for the most part have looked different and have been in the top 40% of defenses since. Certain aspects of our defense have been bad, or bad in spots, but overall top 40% is not bad.

 

[SU91]

I think a lot of reason that our defensive numbers over that period have been strong is bc as swish pointed out. The offense plays keep away, so that our defense doesn’t have to play more than 4 series a half.

This is really the story. We’ve dominated time of possession. If our offense sputters, our D will be in trouble. Our secondary is not good save for Clark who’s probably the best pro prospect on the team.

 

[OburgOrange]

I would like to see KJE more

 

[PhatOrange]

The defense is good enough to win.

Illinois doesn’t care they gave up 49 points to Purdue. They won the game, they’re ranked. Pitt same thing, given up 141 points to our 146. They’re ranked.

Our offense leaving points on the field in a handful of games (red zone; 5-10 fgs), block punt TDs, pick 6s, is the difference between us winning 48-20 in these games and then nobody would care.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

As to tackling, it was t an issue in the past with the same players.