Is recruiting the reason for the OL struggles? | Syracusefan.com

Is recruiting the reason for the OL struggles?

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AngryOtto

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I was curious whether su recruiting in the OL was substantially weaker then other teams in the acc. I excluded FSU and Clemson in my calculations. I went back to 2016 Dino’s first recruiting class. We were towards the bottom but not last. There was also not a huge separation between su and the majority of the conference. Below is the results.

su - .8399
BC - .8375
Duke - .8575
GT - .8389
Louisville - .8643
NCST - .8480
NC - .8809
Pitt - 8506
Vir - .8515
VT - .8520
WK - .8404

now some of the programs have been stronger recently in their recruits but this is an average.

As you can see there is not a Substantial difference in recruiting among a majority of the programs. Not sure the exact reason for the OL play but it is not as simple as saying it’s all recruiting.
 
RF2044 said:
Injuries and depth, in that order.

And the depth is beginning to improve, and will be even more improved in another year or 2, with the talent stocked in the pipeline from classes of 2020 and 2021.
Expand...
2021 I totally agree. Seems like we’ve got one helluva haul with 5 guys and possibly one more. 2020...only 2 OLinemen I believe. Should never have less than 3 or 4 imo.
 
AngryOtto said:
I was curious whether su recruiting in the OL was substantially weaker then other teams in the acc. I excluded FSU and Clemson in my calculations. I went back to 2016 Dino’s first recruiting class. We were towards the bottom but not last. There was also not a huge separation between su and the majority of the conference. Below is the results.

su - .8399
BC - .8375
Duke - .8575
GT - .8389
Louisville - .8643
NCST - .8480
NC - .8809
Pitt - 8506
Vir - .8515
VT - .8520
WK - .8404

now some of the programs have been stronger recently in their recruits but this is an average.

As you can see there is not a Substantial difference in recruiting among a majority of the programs. Not sure the exact reason for the OL play but it is not as simple as saying it’s all recruiting.
Expand...
If what you say is true, and I do not know because there seems to me to be a pretty big difference, then is our OL coaching much worse or do we have a significant difference in injuries? Seems to me our OL is much worse for two years running, and for whatever reason that is not sustainable.
 
AngryOtto said:
I was curious whether su recruiting in the OL was substantially weaker then other teams in the acc. I excluded FSU and Clemson in my calculations. I went back to 2016 Dino’s first recruiting class. We were towards the bottom but not last. There was also not a huge separation between su and the majority of the conference. Below is the results.

su - .8399
BC - .8375
Duke - .8575
GT - .8389
Louisville - .8643
NCST - .8480
NC - .8809
Pitt - 8506
Vir - .8515
VT - .8520
WK - .8404

now some of the programs have been stronger recently in their recruits but this is an average.

As you can see there is not a Substantial difference in recruiting among a majority of the programs. Not sure the exact reason for the OL play but it is not as simple as saying it’s all recruiting.
Expand...
Are those numbers for 4 years and just O linemen?
 
We have 15 WR and 16 Oline counting Elmore and Bleich On the roster. That seems out of whack to me. Need more big bodies to make up for our whiffs and our revolving door of injuries on the Line.
 
Our best OL recruits have gotten injured or disqualified. We've missed on grad transfers that would've helped. An obvious starter didn't get a waiver because the NCAA is crooked.

There are the main reasons.

Secondary reason, IMO, is still the coaching of the position. BC doesn't do much better than we do when it comes to OL recruiting but they know how to find what they're looking for AND how to coach them up.
 
Recruiting and development. Recruiting isn't an exact science as seen with Qadir White, but more often than not a 4* guy is someone you can plug in and they will help your roster. I'm not a coach or recruiter, but I'd be certain to have JuCo guys or a couple of grad transfers on my roster each season so they can fill the gaps while younger guys can get better acquainted at playing FBS ball. Unless they show exceptional ability, freshman and undersized lineman shouldn't be playing at this level.
 
Babers recruited, in order:

2016
Heckel - medically disqualified
Servais RSr
Liam OSullivan - medically disqualified
Mike Clark - medically disqualified

2017
Dakota Davis - out with injury RJr
Pat Davis Sr -
Tyrone Sampson - punted

2019
Qadir White RSo
Carolos Vettorello RSo
Will Froumy RSo

2019
Anthony Red RFr - out with injury
Matt Bergeron So
Darius Tisdale RJr

2020
Garth Barclay Fr
Josh llaoa Fr
Mark Petry Fr

*the medical DQs we haven't quite recovered from yet.

2021 current commits
Austyn Kauhi
Wes Hoeh
Kalan Ellis
Tyler Magnuson
Enrique Cruz
 
PhatOrange said:
Babers recruited, in order:

2016
Heckel - medically disqualified
Servais RSr
Liam OSullivan - medically disqualified
Mike Clark - medically disqualified

2017
Dakota Davis - out with injury RJr
Pat Davis Sr -
Tyrone Sampson - punted

2019
Qadir White RSo
Carolos Vettorello RSo
Will Froumy RSo

2019
Anthony Red RFr - out with injury
Matt Bergeron So
Darius Tisdale RJr

2020
Garth Barclay Fr
Josh llaoa Fr
Mark Petry Fr

*the medical DQs we haven't quite recovered from yet.

2021 current commits
Austyn Kauhi
Wes Hoeh
Kalan Ellis
Tyler Magnuson
Enrique Cruz
Expand...
You missed 3 injuries. Of the 13 from 2019 and prior, there are 4 healthy.
 
gmoney44 said:
We have 15 WR and 16 Oline counting Elmore and Bleich On the roster. That seems out of whack to me. Need more big bodies to make up for our whiffs and our revolving door of injuries on the Line.
Expand...
Agree w/ this. I have long thought this, especially considering how few receivers play. Maybe we need them for ST?
 
PhatOrange said:
Babers recruited, in order:

2016
Heckel - medically disqualified
Servais RSr
Liam OSullivan - medically disqualified
Mike Clark - medically disqualified

2017
Dakota Davis - out with injury RJr
Pat Davis Sr -
Tyrone Sampson - punted

2019
Qadir White RSo
Carolos Vettorello RSo
Will Froumy RSo

2019
Anthony Red RFr - out with injury
Matt Bergeron So
Darius Tisdale RJr

2020
Garth Barclay Fr
Josh llaoa Fr
Mark Petry Fr

*the medical DQs we haven't quite recovered from yet.

2021 current commits
Austyn Kauhi
Wes Hoeh
Kalan Ellis
Tyler Magnuson
Enrique Cruz
Expand...

2019 looks like a bust...
 
the 2016 kids would expect that 1 or 2 to be the solid 5th yr starters and the 2017 kids are out as your 4th yr Jrs.. thats 6 kids and only 1 on the field.. no matter your depth if you dont have 4-5* kids who can play early you are in a world of hurt on the oline.. you can scheme away some issues on the Dline, but when the oline has issues very little you can do to over come it.

ask FSU what happens when the oline washes out.

if we had just 3 kids of the 7 playing thats huge, and also the issues extend into practice time as well.. you cant do as much without backups. you have to be careful..

Bergerson wouldnt even have really had to play last yr if we had better depth.
 
upperdeck said:
the 2016 kids would expect that 1 or 2 to be the solid 5th yr starters and the 2017 kids are out as your 4th yr Jrs.. thats 6 kids and only 1 on the field.. no matter your depth if you dont have 4-5* kids who can play early you are in a world of hurt on the oline.. you can scheme away some issues on the Dline, but when the oline has issues very little you can do to over come it.

ask FSU what happens when the oline washes out.

if we had just 3 kids of the 7 playing thats huge, and also the issues extend into practice time as well.. you cant do as much without backups. you have to be careful..

Bergerson wouldnt even have really had to play last yr if we had better depth.
Expand...

What's worse with Florida State is that many of those kids were highly rated. Jimbo Fisher torched them on his way out by specifically neglecting that unit. Going to be a couple of seasons before Norvell can fix what Taggart didn't get to finish.
 
just like when the question is asked about what is wrong with our offense, the answer has multiple parts. same when you break it down to the OL, which is medical DQs, busts, not enough OL brought in overall to counter what ended up happening with all the DQs, coaching. a myriad of problems.
 
PhatOrange said:
Babers recruited, in order:

2016
Heckel - medically disqualified
Servais RSr
Liam OSullivan - medically disqualified
Mike Clark - medically disqualified

2017
Dakota Davis - out with injury RJr
Pat Davis Sr -
Tyrone Sampson - punted

2019
Qadir White RSo
Carolos Vettorello RSo
Will Froumy RSo

2019
Anthony Red RFr - out with injury
Matt Bergeron So
Darius Tisdale RJr

2020
Garth Barclay Fr
Josh llaoa Fr
Mark Petry Fr

*the medical DQs we haven't quite recovered from yet.

2021 current commits
Austyn Kauhi
Wes Hoeh
Kalan Ellis
Tyler Magnuson
Enrique Cruz
Expand...

Also look at what happened to players that were on the roster when Dino arrived.

-Roberts was injured for 2017 forcing younger players into the lineup
-Conway didn't redshirt his freshman year otherwise he could've been back last year
-Claussman medically disqualified after 2017 season.
-Bryne left after the 2018 season.
 
orangepassion said:
Agree w/ this. I have long thought this, especially considering how few receivers play. Maybe we need them for ST?
Expand...

The WR numbers are not out of whack. In this type of O 14/15 is about right. OLine on the other hand is down. Benchmark is about 16-18 on roster.

Ohio State carries 15 WR, I think you'll find that's pretty normal.
 
PhatOrange said:
The WR numbers are not out of whack. In this type of O 14/15 is about right. OLine on the other hand is down. Benchmark is about 16-18 on roster.

Ohio State carries 15 WR, I think you'll find that's pretty normal.
Expand...
It seems like a lot to me when we only use 4 or 5 and have struggled so much to find good linemen. I'd rather have more numbers to choose from on OL and maybe we hit a couple of more. Something's got to change on the OL-It's been been really bad almost every year under Dino, especially early in the year. It usually gets a little towards the end of the year, which is a discussion of its own.
 
we dont use 4-5 we have 3-4 on the field all the time.. so to practice you need 2-3x that, we have had 5 catch a pass already. Hendrix has a tackle on ST so hard to say how many are playing there kickoffs and coverages
 
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