Is Scoop Jardine our Tony Romo? | Syracusefan.com

Is Scoop Jardine our Tony Romo?

jimsonjunction

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Just a random thought, but I was reading an article on Tony Romo and couldn't help but make the comparison. Confident with the ball. Never afraid to take the shot. Capable of making great plays, but makes too many boneheaded mistakes, especially late in games. One of the best players at his position, but can you win it all with him at the wheel? I believe we can.
 

baggerbob

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Keep on hearing all the criticism of scoop, because he tryed to make plays. We wouldn't even be having this kind of discussion if his backcourt mate had been GMAC, DEVO, or ANDY because he would have passed to them and they wouldn,t have been afraid to take the shot.
 

fanfanclubclub

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yes, Romo is a great analogy for Scoop.

They both came in and impressed during a time period where no one expected much out of them: and each player converted this pleasant surprise into years of frustration by taking too much upon themselves. Romo is the kind of quarterback who is "just good enough to get you in trouble," in other words, he is good enough to keep you from ever getting a high draft pick, but not good enough to take you to the title.

Romo-type players tend to distinguish themselves with great performances when it doesn't matter and against lousy competition, lousy performances against good competition, and god-awful "I can't believe he did that . . . again" performances in the clutch.

Scoop is good enough to get Cuse in trouble. He is good enough to dominate poor competition, but he is absolutely terrible in the clutch, and not very good against good competition. He is just-barely good enough to leverage his seniority into starters minutes, when more talented, younger players have to sit the bench. I very much hope he is our 6th man: the only role Scoop has performed in an efficient manner.
 

EastCoast2

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He's improved every season. I have a lot of confidence in Scoop this year to be our floor general en route to a final 4 appearance
 

fanfanclubclub

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He's improved every season. I have a lot of confidence in Scoop this year to be our floor general en route to a final 4 appearance

Jardine did NOT improve between his sophomore and junior season, he regressed.

Also for what it is worth, Romo has improved in almost a linear fashion, so mere improvement does not necessarily suffice. It is really hard to be critical of good players who are not quite good enough, especially when the player has an affable national image, like Scoop. But IMO, he is not good enough to cut down the nets, while some of our other guards are.
 

EastCoast2

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Jardine did NOT improve between his sophomore and junior season, he regressed.

Also for what it is worth, Romo has improved in almost a linear fashion, so mere improvement does not necessarily suffice. It is really hard to be critical of good players who are not quite good enough, especially when the player has an affable national image, like Scoop. But IMO, he is not good enough to cut down the nets, while some of our other guards are.
You sure Scoop regressed last season, as opposed to just having less talented players around him? Passing to Rautins for the 3, AO for the dunk, and Wes for the fast break dunk, or basically giving the ball to Wes and letting him score. Scoop was able to come off the bench and run for 8 minutes and the other players made him look really good, where as last season he was forced to create the offense instead of just pass the ball to playmakers.
 

Gotothehole

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Scoop had to score and attempt to generate offense. I thought that BT held this team back seem as though he was scared to drive or shoot. That is why I wanted his butt on the bench in favor of DW. Why should DW pass the ball to who? He was aggressive as soon as stepped on the floor. That is what a 2 guard is supposed to do. I hope that coach starts DW. Scoop looks bad because BT plays scared he better pick it up this year if not park his ass next to JB. There too much talent behind him. Everyone pointing fingers at Scoop put the blame where it belongs..
 

RF2044

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yes, Romo is a great analogy for Scoop.

They both came in and impressed during a time period where no one expected much out of them: and each player converted this pleasant surprise into years of frustration by taking too much upon themselves. Romo is the kind of quarterback who is "just good enough to get you in trouble," in other words, he is good enough to keep you from ever getting a high draft pick, but not good enough to take you to the title.

Romo-type players tend to distinguish themselves with great performances when it doesn't matter and against lousy competition, lousy performances against good competition, and god-awful "I can't believe he did that . . . again" performances in the clutch.

Scoop is good enough to get Cuse in trouble. He is good enough to dominate poor competition, but he is absolutely terrible in the clutch, and not very good against good competition. He is just-barely good enough to leverage his seniority into starters minutes, when more talented, younger players have to sit the bench. I very much hope he is our 6th man: the only role Scoop has performed in an efficient manner.

Your basketball assessments are as poor as your football ones.

Don't quitquit your dayday jobjob.
 

fanfanclubclub

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Scoop looks bad because BT plays scared.

That's 100% backwards.

Triche sometimes appears as if he is playing 'scared,' because Jardine so regularly puts our offense behind the 8-ball by dribbling without a purpose (other than looking for an alley oop or a 3) for 8-10 seconds, and then passing off to Triche.

When Jardine wastes time and fails to run the offense, Triche often gets his first touch with about 20 ticks left, and has to decide whether he (1) has enough time to run some actual offense, providing the team with much needed solid decision making and ball distribution, or (2) ought to instead try to create offense for himself. Jardine rarely passes in the flow of the offense, especially not to Triche. Instead, Triche commonly receives the ball on a "bail out" pass after Jardine talks himself out of chucking a 3.

People can cite raw counting stats like assists, and a:to all day, but the advanced metrics that measure efficiency and ball movement are very, very down on Scoop. I hope he proves all his critics wrong, but more than that, I hope Triche takes over point.
 

jordoo

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I think we forget that last season was Scoop's first season as a starting PG and he didn't have any consistent shooters to rely on to help him. We forget how easy offense was for Kris and Scoop when they were playing with AO, Wes and Andy. Sure they looked great because no one was keying on them. Andy and Wes stretched the defense and AO collapsed it. Andy often acted as a pg as well as giving Scoop constant pointers every whistle. Look how much Kris struggled last season even with a much improved jump shot.
I look for Scoop to fine tune his game, eliminate a couple bad to's per game, eliminate a couple of bad decisions per game, eliminate a couple bad shots per game and get the ball to the right guy more often. I also expect Kris to be much better and more experienced as a guy that defenses are looking to stop. We forget that last season was a learning new roles on the fly season for Scoop and Kris.
I also agree with who ever posted that Brandon needed to be more aggressive last season. I think he was hesitant at times but I'd also say that Scoop and Dion refused to pass him the ball at times as well. Or dumped it to him late in the clock with poor options.
 

shermstheman

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Scoop is not like Romo, that would be Donte Green.
 

jordoo

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Scoop is not like Romo, that would be Donte Green.

Had Donte stayed for his Sophmore season I think you'd perceive him much differently. Remember that team lost Devo and Andy and had no other shooters. That was one of the most inexperienced squads JB ever took into BE play. Only Paul had any meaningful experience. AO had sat out a year, Ricky, Scoop, Jonny and Donte were all frosh and KOng wad a juco in his first year at SU. Its because Jonny and Donte were so good as freshmen that we had a chance to make the NCAA's right up until we lost to Nova in the BET.
 

osullfam

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Not a bad comparison for the reasons you cite.
When Scoop was not at the point last year, there was much less motion in the offense.
Yes, he did try and do too much at times.
His talent is evidenced by being on the preseason Wooden list.
I'm forecasting a great year for him.
 

bnoro

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yes, Romo is a great analogy for Scoop.

They both came in and impressed during a time period where no one expected much out of them: and each player converted this pleasant surprise into years of frustration by taking too much upon themselves. Romo is the kind of quarterback who is "just good enough to get you in trouble," in other words, he is good enough to keep you from ever getting a high draft pick, but not good enough to take you to the title.

I'm pretty sure a lot was expected out of Scoop when he got here, he was a top 50 recruit. And also, you know nothing about basketball or this team.
 

arbitragegls

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That's 100% backwards.

Triche sometimes appears as if he is playing 'scared,' because Jardine so regularly puts our offense behind the 8-ball by dribbling without a purpose (other than looking for an alley oop or a 3) for 8-10 seconds, and then passing off to Triche.

When Jardine wastes time and fails to run the offense, Triche often gets his first touch with about 20 ticks left, and has to decide whether he (1) has enough time to run some actual offense, providing the team with much needed solid decision making and ball distribution, or (2) ought to instead try to create offense for himself. Jardine rarely passes in the flow of the offense, especially not to Triche. Instead, Triche commonly receives the ball on a "bail out" pass after Jardine talks himself out of chucking a 3.

People can cite raw counting stats like assists, and a:to all day, but the advanced metrics that measure efficiency and ball movement are very, very down on Scoop. I hope he proves all his critics wrong, but more than that, I hope Triche takes over point.

Well, we might be in the minority...but I agree with the above. I find it interesting that lots of us forget that Triche started for two years...when Scoop came off the bench he was a much better player than he has been as a PG starter. I feel that both Scoop and Dion have not frozen Triche out...but rather, get him the ball with so few seconds available that Triche is forced to make shots he would not have taken.
Unless Scoop becomes a team player, passes the ball early in the possession...than I really think his assists are nothing more than fortunate...
 

Rocco

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Scoop will be fine this year. He makes alot of mistakes, but comparing Romo to Scoop is hard to judge. I understand where you are coming from, but let's make that call after we see about 15 games into this season.
 

billsin01

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People love making arguments without numbers and without viewing seasons and players in context. Scoop is a victim of this. Basically Scoop's sins are that he's not as athletic as Flynn and not as dynamic as Sherm. Otherwise he compares favorably to any PG we've had on the Hill. Here are some numbers to actually substantiate this claim (though not every number I went through when I did this exact same exercise twice last year):

Record: In two years as a primary member of the rotation and the team's primary ball-handler, Scoop has been on two teams to pile up a 57-13 record.

Turnovers/TO ratio: Scoop averaged 2.9/game (higher than you'd like but in line with almost every PG that has played here -- Sherm and Z each posted significantly higher numbers every year they started) and posted a 2:1 A/TO ratio -- something J Hart did once in his career, IIRC.

Assists: 5.9/game is the third best average by any junior in Cuse history. Outside of Sherm (3x) and Pearl (3x), only three players ever averaged more in a season (Sims, Griffin and Hart) and all three did it as seniors.

Shooting: 41.5% from the floor, 35.7 from 3. Both numbers are in line with almost any season any PG put up other than Sherm, IIRC (again I did all this last year and don't feel like doing it again). Bottom line: Very few PGs -- Autry as a senior, Sherm, Pearl -- every put up shooting numbers any better than those.

Lost contributions: It certainly appears scoop regressed (all shooting percentages, assists per minute dropped sharply) from 09-10 to 10-11. But when Rautins, Onuaku and Johnson left they took 39.1 points, 17.0 rebounds, 7.7 assists and 4.6 steals per game with them. And they were efficient too: Onuaku shot just under 70%, Rautins was at about 44%, but he was over 40% from three and Johnson was at 50%/41.5% (from 3). That is a TON of efficient offense to replace. It's one thing to replace a double-figure scorer like Harris or Devo, who had talent but a penchant for bad shots and turnovers. It's another to replace two guys who ended up in the NBA and a guy who may have been as good a low-post offensive threat as we've had in my lifetime as a fan (going back to the late 80s).

I don't know (and couldn't care any less) if Scoop is our Romo or not. I also think there is plenty of room for him to improve upon his performance from last year (poor shot selection at times, too much dribbling, some careless turnovers). But, people who don't look at his game and realize that if he merely cuts down on the occasional turnover (let's say 2.9 to 2.25), he's likely to post as good a year as we've gotten from a point guard, this side of Sherm, Pearl and (maybe) Flynn (never thought he ran the floor exceptionally well but he was obviously a tough player to defend). Scoop has a chance to easily put up comparable career numbers to Autry and Hart (He catches Autry with a good year assist-wise and 12 ppg puts him at 27th on the career list, not far behind both Autry and Hart) despite starting for just two years (or 2.5 if you want to consider him a de facto starter in 09-10).
 

fanfanclubclub

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I'm pretty sure a lot was expected out of Scoop when he got here, he was a top 50 recruit. And also, you know nothing about basketball or this team.

Scoop was coming off of a poor frosh campaign and an injured soph campaign when he broke out as a R. Soph. He played well as the seventh man, but didn't have to deal with big expectations: few seventh men do.

The fact that Scoop was top 50-ish high school recruit doesn't mean that there were high expectations for Scoop during his redshirt soph season. Mookie Jones was also a top 50-ish recruit coming out of high school, but very little was expected out of Mookie during last season (his redshirt soph season).

Logic > insults.
 

Flacusian

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For all the Scoop detractors, Scoop is our starting point guard, deal with it. He is going to have a sensational season and prove all the naysayers wrong. He has come a long way since he has been here and frankly, I think we are lucky to have him this coming year.
 

cuseincincy

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My optimistic hope for Scoop stems from a "seen it before" scenario. Time will tell but I will say unequivocally that Scoop was better as a JR than Lazaurs Sims was as a JR. If Scoop can show the degree of improvement that Laz did SU fans will be overjoyed with him this year. Scoop will be asked to do more than Laz was, but if he can play with the control and leadership Laz showed count me in.
 

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