Issue facing the program regardless of the head coach (Tuition Cost)

[Lrschill24]

For the academic year 2006 -2007 the cost of Tuition was $28,820 and for this current academic year the tuition cost is now $54,270. Going back to my freshman year in 1996-97 tuition was about $16K and total cost was $24K. There was a point where Syracuse was a really cost compelling option for students who were going to a private school but in 2021 that is no longer the case.

A look at Syracuse University tuition over the last 10 years

Just to see the tuition go from $41,794 in 2015-16 to $54,270 in five years is mind-blowing regardless of being an athlete or just a regular student.

Even with the work the university can do with financial aid, with only 12.6 scholarships available it is going to be harder and harder to get recruits to commit to Syracuse when other schools/programs have a similar cost but a better academic profile (ivy league schools, JHU and Duke as examples) or lower costs as state schools with similar or better academic profiles (UVA, UNC, Penn State, Rutgers, etc).

To use Rutgers as the state school example, if you are a NJ recruit your choice is $12.3K in tuition to go to Rutgers or $54.2K to go to Syracuse that is going to be a hurdle to sell the recruit on when realistically most lacrosse players are not going pro to the PLL but are using lacrosse as a means to get their degree and develop the connections for their future careers. When you have Ivy League schools offering financial aid to ALL students in the form of scholarship not loans based on family need it allows them to better recruit against schools like Syracuse, hence how Yale goes from an after thought to competing for the national title.

Where I think tuition issue is really hurting the program is depth development. Parents and the athletes aren't going to be willing to sit a freshman season or even a sophomore year waiting to play now when other schools can come to the table with better financial aid and academic reputation (and it pains me to write that statement as a dual degree alum).

Whether Desko stays or a new head coach comes in next season or in the near future, this cost issue isn't going to disappear and it will continue to impact recruiting for the program. To me this is the number 1 reason why we may not see Syracuse return to the level of making the final four year after year. If the analysis was done across D1 Lacrosse I would expect a strong correlation to academic aid (non-loan) & tuition costs to the changes we have seen over the last decade of who are now the top programs.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

$75k Tuition and R&B at Syracuse in 2021-22 approx.

$25k at Albany (for NY State residents).

 

[Whitey23]

Here's some more context:

US News World Report

 

[DoubleDee]

Maybe with all that tuition, they could bump up lax schollies?

 

[rrlbees]

Maybe with all that tuition, they could bump up lax schollies?

the ncaa sets the limit

 

[CousCuse]

There is a full roster now, tuition is getting paid. Duke, ND and Gtown are private and expensive.

 

[orlandoorange]

My daughter was accepted to SU this year, and much of my family has gone there.

The quality just isn't there to justify the cost. There are a lot of equal or better ranked schools with lower tuitions. Just in the ACC UNC is ranked 30 spots higher and costs $30k less before aide. I'm not sure how much aid there is in addition to scholarships for lax, but if I had a kid playing lax I know where I'd steer him.

 

[Purple Haze]

For the academic year 2006 -2007 the cost of Tuition was $28,820 and for this current academic year the tuition cost is now $54,270. Going back to my freshman year in 1996-97 tuition was about $16K and total cost was $24K. There was a point where Syracuse was a really cost compelling option for students who were going to a private school but in 2021 that is no longer the case.

A look at Syracuse University tuition over the last 10 years

Just to see the tuition go from $41,794 in 2015-16 to $54,270 in five years is mind-blowing regardless of being an athlete or just a regular student.

Even with the work the university can do with financial aid, with only 12.6 scholarships available it is going to be harder and harder to get recruits to commit to Syracuse when other schools/programs have a similar cost but a better academic profile (ivy league schools, JHU and Duke as examples) or lower costs as state schools with similar or better academic profiles (UVA, UNC, Penn State, Rutgers, etc).

To use Rutgers as the state school example, if you are a NJ recruit your choice is $12.3K in tuition to go to Rutgers or $54.2K to go to Syracuse that is going to be a hurdle to sell the recruit on when realistically most lacrosse players are not going pro to the PLL but are using lacrosse as a means to get their degree and develop the connections for their future careers. When you have Ivy League schools offering financial aid to ALL students in the form of scholarship not loans based on family need it allows them to better recruit against schools like Syracuse, hence how Yale goes from an after thought to competing for the national title.

Where I think tuition issue is really hurting the program is depth development. Parents and the athletes aren't going to be willing to sit a freshman season or even a sophomore year waiting to play now when other schools can come to the table with better financial aid and academic reputation (and it pains me to write that statement as a dual degree alum).

Whether Desko stays or a new head coach comes in next season or in the near future, this cost issue isn't going to disappear and it will continue to impact recruiting for the program. To me this is the number 1 reason why we may not see Syracuse return to the level of making the final four year after year. If the analysis was done across D1 Lacrosse I would expect a strong correlation to academic aid (non-loan) & tuition costs to the changes we have seen over the last decade of who are now the top programs.

That's a cop out - name me one recruit has Syracuse lost out on to these other cheaper schools (Rutgers, Albany, Bingo) because of tuition? And yes, Syracuse is over priced...but it is still cheaper than Duke, Yale, Notre Dame and even Georgetown. If a kid can't afford the tuition (and by kid I mean his parents), they are eligible for all other kinds of aide to make it affordable. I've never once heard a 4 or 5 star kid say I wanted to go to Syracuse but I couldn't afford it so I ended up at Binghamton. Also, tuition for out of state kids going to a state school is vastly different than the in state price - an out of state kid going to Virginia could expect to pay $64K+.

Lacrosse at the D1 level is still very much dominated by kids coming out of white upper class households who can afford to send their kids to prep schools and any college in the country. Look at the top recruits in the country and you'll see that the bulk come from Culver, Taft, Georgetown Prep, St. Anthony's, IMG, Hill, Sacred Heart, Torey Pines, Avon, Calvert Hall, Don Bosco etc...most if not all of these places already cost $60K+.

It's a non-factor.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

That's a cop out - name me one recruit has Syracuse lost out on to these other cheaper schools (Rutgers, Albany, Bingo) because of tuition?

Camden Hay. Tanner Wood.

Josh Zawada flipped to Michigan because they offered him a better scholarship package.

 

[orangecuse]

There is a full roster now, tuition is getting paid. Duke, ND and Gtown are private and expensive.

And, all three are significantly superior academic institutions.

Did you see Chill24’s post above? It is spot on IMO.

 

[orlandoorange]

That's a cop out - name me one recruit has Syracuse lost out on to these other cheaper schools (Rutgers, Albany, Bingo) because of tuition? And yes, Syracuse is over priced...but it is still cheaper than Duke, Yale, Notre Dame and even Georgetown. If a kid can't afford the tuition (and by kid I mean his parents), they are eligible for all other kinds of aide to make it affordable. I've never once heard a 4 or 5 star kid say I wanted to go to Syracuse but I couldn't afford it so I ended up at Binghamton. Also, tuition for out of state kids going to a state school is vastly different than the in state price - an out of state kid going to Virginia could expect to pay $64K+.

Lacrosse at the D1 level is still very much dominated by kids coming out of white upper class households who can afford to send their kids to prep schools and any college in the country. Look at the top recruits in the country and you'll see that the bulk come from Culver, Taft, Georgetown Prep, St. Anthony's, IMG, Hill, Sacred Heart, Torey Pines, Avon, Calvert Hall, Don Bosco etc...most if not all of these places already cost $60K+.

It's a non-factor.

Price isn't the only consideration, value is equally if not more important. Yale, ND, Georgetown, Duke, even UNC, are not in the same academic league as SU. Kids use lax to get into those schools, an SU education is not comparable to any of those schools.

 

[Purple Haze]

Camden Hay. Tanner Wood.

Josh Zawada flipped to Michigan because they offered him a better scholarship package.

Josh Zawada - the kid who's parents paid $63,870/year so he could attend the Hill Academy - flipped to Michigan because they offered him a better scholarship package? The same Josh Zawada who's father owns a medical device company in North Carolina? Yeah, he went to Michigan because it's going to save daddy a few thousand dollars a year.

Camden Hay committed to Syracuse when he was in 8th grade. Putting aside the absurdity of a kid committing to college in 8th grade, the only reason he's at Albany is that his brother plays there and his cousin coached there. Plus he probably wouldn't have even seen the field until he was a junior at Syracuse.

As for Tanner Wood - Hobart runs around $65K a year. So you think the $8,000 was why he flipped after signing? The kid who went to Westminster for high school at $59,000/year?

smh

 

[CrazyPeople]

Josh Zawada - the kid who's parents paid $63,870/year so he could attend the Hill Academy - flipped to Michigan because they offered him a better scholarship package? The same Josh Zawada who's father owns a medical device company in North Carolina? Yeah, he went to Michigan because it's going to save daddy a few thousand dollars a year.

Camden Hay committed to Syracuse when he was in 8th grade. Putting aside the absurdity of a kid committing to college in 8th grade, the only reason he's at Albany is that his brother plays there and his cousin coached there. Plus he probably wouldn't have even seen the field until he was a junior at Syracuse.

As for Tanner Wood - Hobart runs around $65K a year. So you think the $8,000 was why he flipped after signing? The kid who went to Westminster for high school at $59,000/year?

smh

1. Just because some CAN pay a certain price for tuition, doesnt mean they HAVE or WANT to. Rich people didn't get rich by giving their money away

2. Michigan is a MUCH better education than Syracuse. I'm sure that was relevant in the decision to pay whatever amount to attend one of the two schools.

3. Those prep schools may have a written price tag of those you mentioned, but rarely to families actually pay those amounts. Especially if the kid is talented in more than 1 sport.

Your post was more inaccurate than the previous one if were being honest

 

[Stealth4785]

Josh Zawada - the kid who's parents paid $63,870/year so he could attend the Hill Academy - flipped to Michigan because they offered him a better scholarship package? The same Josh Zawada who's father owns a medical device company in North Carolina? Yeah, he went to Michigan because it's going to save daddy a few thousand dollars a year.

Camden Hay committed to Syracuse when he was in 8th grade. Putting aside the absurdity of a kid committing to college in 8th grade, the only reason he's at Albany is that his brother plays there and his cousin coached there. Plus he probably wouldn't have even seen the field until he was a junior at Syracuse.

As for Tanner Wood - Hobart runs around $65K a year. So you think the $8,000 was why he flipped after signing? The kid who went to Westminster for high school at $59,000/year?

smh

The OP was about money, so your reasoning behind Camden Hay switching commitments is a bit off topic. A 40k/year difference is pretty substantial to a large family, especially when a presumed primary earner in the family suffers a terrible accident and most likely has significant medical bills.

 

[ThundrTroll]

Camden Hay committed to Syracuse when he was in 8th grade. Putting aside the absurdity of a kid committing to college in 8th grade, the only reason he's at Albany is that his brother plays there and his cousin coached there. Plus he probably wouldn't have even seen the field until he was a junior at Syracuse.

I understand your point about family connection(s), but think it is also worth noting the father's serious car accident before Camden's senior year and the impact it can have on family income and finance that can make an in-state school more attractive.

 

[clayman32]

That's a cop out - name me one recruit has Syracuse lost out on to these other cheaper schools (Rutgers, Albany, Bingo) because of tuition? And yes, Syracuse is over priced...but it is still cheaper than Duke, Yale, Notre Dame and even Georgetown. If a kid can't afford the tuition (and by kid I mean his parents), they are eligible for all other kinds of aide to make it affordable. I've never once heard a 4 or 5 star kid say I wanted to go to Syracuse but I couldn't afford it so I ended up at Binghamton. Also, tuition for out of state kids going to a state school is vastly different than the in state price - an out of state kid going to Virginia could expect to pay $64K+.

Lacrosse at the D1 level is still very much dominated by kids coming out of white upper class households who can afford to send their kids to prep schools and any college in the country. Look at the top recruits in the country and you'll see that the bulk come from Culver, Taft, Georgetown Prep, St. Anthony's, IMG, Hill, Sacred Heart, Torey Pines, Avon, Calvert Hall, Don Bosco etc...most if not all of these places already cost $60K+.

It's a non-factor.

Chase Scanlan has said that the reason he decommitted from SU out of high school was because they couldn’t offer him the financial package that other schools could. He said that when he decided to transfer from Loyola, Cuse offered him a much better package the 2nd time around

 

[illestcuse]

Chase Scanlan has said that the reason he decommitted from SU out of high school was because they couldn’t offer him the financial package that other schools could. He said that when he decided to transfer from Loyola, Cuse offered him a much better package the 2nd time around

Cuse offered him a better package the second time around? Chase was eligible for the Haudenosaunee Promise Scholarship both times which would have gave him free tuition. The reason he chose to go to Loyola was not due to money.

 

[Purple Haze]

I understand your point about family connection(s), but think it is also worth noting the father's serious car accident before Camden's senior year and the impact it can have on family income and finance that can make an in-state school more attractive.

Regarding Camden Hay:

“I committed to Syracuse my seventh or eighth grade year, which is very crazy,” Camden Hay said. “The rules changed, so you can’t do that now, but then I switched to Albany because my cousin’s the defensive coach and he played here, so I’ve been coming to Albany lacrosse games since I was 13, 12 years old.

“And Coach Marr is great, and Tanner plays here, so it was a bunch of family ties. It just felt right being here. It felt like home.”

“I definitely had some pull,” Tanner Hay said with a laugh, “but at the end of the day, he’s happy, I’m happy, everybody around him’s happy that he’s here. I truthfully thought this was just a better fit for him.”

UAlbany a comfortable fit in many ways for freshman Camden Hay

ALBANY — It took some convincing — but not a lot — from those close to him for Camden Hay… Read more »

dailygazette.com

Also, the younger Hay was already at Albany before the accident. If there was an "income" issue then he would have qualified for financial aid.


The point I'm trying to make is that I'm so tired of hearing people make excuses. I don't care if it's the cost of tuition, the weather, academics, whatever. The truth is that this team - right now - has final four caliber talent. Why that didn't happen, why you get blown out by teams like Army and Georgetown - those are the real questions. If you think we can't compete because our tuition is too high and we can't get the right players here then I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[orange79]

Josh Zawada - the kid who's parents paid $63,870/year so he could attend the Hill Academy - flipped to Michigan because they offered him a better scholarship package? The same Josh Zawada who's father owns a medical device company in North Carolina? Yeah, he went to Michigan because it's going to save daddy a few thousand dollars a year.

Camden Hay committed to Syracuse when he was in 8th grade. Putting aside the absurdity of a kid committing to college in 8th grade, the only reason he's at Albany is that his brother plays there and his cousin coached there. Plus he probably wouldn't have even seen the field until he was a junior at Syracuse.

As for Tanner Wood - Hobart runs around $65K a year. So you think the $8,000 was why he flipped after signing? The kid who went to Westminster for high school at $59,000/year?

smh

If you think Zawada's parents paid full tuition to Hill Academy, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[CousCuse]

Regarding Camden Hay:

“I committed to Syracuse my seventh or eighth grade year, which is very crazy,” Camden Hay said. “The rules changed, so you can’t do that now, but then I switched to Albany because my cousin’s the defensive coach and he played here, so I’ve been coming to Albany lacrosse games since I was 13, 12 years old.

“And Coach Marr is great, and Tanner plays here, so it was a bunch of family ties. It just felt right being here. It felt like home.”

“I definitely had some pull,” Tanner Hay said with a laugh, “but at the end of the day, he’s happy, I’m happy, everybody around him’s happy that he’s here. I truthfully thought this was just a better fit for him.”

UAlbany a comfortable fit in many ways for freshman Camden Hay

ALBANY — It took some convincing — but not a lot — from those close to him for Camden Hay… Read more »

dailygazette.com

Also, the younger Hay was already at Albany before the accident. If there was an "income" issue then he would have qualified for financial aid.


The point I'm trying to make is that I'm so tired of hearing people make excuses. I don't care if it's the cost of tuition, the weather, academics, whatever. The truth is that this team - right now - has final four caliber talent. Why that didn't happen, why you get blown out by teams like Army and Georgetown - those are the real questions. If you think we can't compete because our tuition is too high and we can't get the right players here then I really don't know what to tell you.

If people can't see the air has gone out of the Syracuse Lacrosse program, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[clayman32]

Cuse offered him a better package the second time around? Chase was eligible for the Haudenosaunee Promise Scholarship both times which would have gave him free tuition. The reason he chose to go to Loyola was not due to money.

I definitely remember it being said that the financial package was better the second time around. I cannot find it right now, it might have been said in an interview. But it stuck out in my head because, like you, I knew of the Haudenosaunee scholarship. But here is where it says that the financial package was not adequate out of high school

Chase Scanlan primed for role in the spotlight with Syracuse lacrosse

The sophomore attack will stand out for his jersey number and scoring skill.

www.syracuse.com

“Scanlan originally planned to make his debut as a college player with SU. He committed to SU out of IMG Academy in Florida but then switched to Loyola when the Orange’s financial aid package didn’t meet his needs.”

 

[Purple Haze]

I definitely remember it being said that the financial package was better the second time around. I cannot find it right now, it might have been said in an interview. But it stuck out in my head because, like you, I knew of the Haudenosaunee scholarship. But here is where it says that the financial package was not adequate out of high school

Chase Scanlan primed for role in the spotlight with Syracuse lacrosse

The sophomore attack will stand out for his jersey number and scoring skill.

www.syracuse.com

“Scanlan originally planned to make his debut as a college player with SU. He committed to SU out of IMG Academy in Florida but then switched to Loyola when the Orange’s financial aid package didn’t meet his needs.”

Here's what he told the DO:

Scanlan changed his initial commitment because of his concerns with the Haudenosaunee Promise Program, which guarantees free tuition for Native Americans who reside on a Nation territory.

“I felt because they didn’t have any money invested in me they (wouldn’t) feel obligated to giving me a chance,” Scanlan said.

He spent his final two years of high school at IMG Academy under former head coach Mark Burnam, a member of the Syracuse 1983 National Championship team. Soon, Burnam became Scanlan’s mentor.

When Scanlan decommitted, Burnam helped him get in contact with teams who were willing to give him a scholarship. And throughout the last two weeks, he’s helped his former player find a college to transfer to.

‘I would’ve never thought’: Loyola transfer Chase Scanlan is Syracuse’s next No. 22

After a freshman season with 43 goals, Scanlan has transferred to Syracuse over Virginia and Cornell, among others

dailyorange.com

 

[longtimefan]

I think cost is a major factor.

The financial bottom lines offered by Ivys and state schools are much less than a lacrosse player can get at SU.

Our lacrosse peers are other private institutions--ND, Duke, Hopkins, and re-emerging Georgetown.
ND and Duke have considerably larger endowments than SU. JHU is basically an Ivy as far as fund availability since Bloomberg donated $1B for financial aid. GTown is interesting, and maybe even unique. Did you hear them mention on the broadcast that the school only sponsors 6 intercollegiate sports now? Thus their ability to concentrate their resources.

I also remember an interview with Slugger Simmons from the mid-Nineties. He said that the worst part of the job occurred after the season ended and he had to figure out how he was going to dole out his
resources among his players the following school year. He said he would talk to them one-on-one asking awkward questions about family finances--whose parent had been laid off, or had medical problems, etc. And, with the huge jump in cost-of-attendance over the last 25 years, I'll bet this is a bigger problem.

 

[PhatOrange]

its a very real issue for sure.

My son looked at privates in the south and the north, he's headed south to play and it was half the cost of the schools he was looking at in Boston. Same degree/education as far as I'm concerned.

Those guys at Tampa who left Syracuse, tuition at Tampa is like 28K and total cost about 45k. It adds up.

People who say its a non issue have no idea what they're talking about and they aren't footing the bill. Its a big issue for the bottom half of the roster who are likely getting very little scholarship money if any. Kids can get good merit based aid if they have good grades but still that only goes so far...the parents go all in because johnny has a chance to play D1 (and they spent wads of money to get to that level). Then the kid is saddled with a 100K plus debt for a family development degree.

 

[ForCuseSake]

its a very real issue for sure.

My son looked at privates in the south and the north, he's headed south to play and it was half the cost of the schools he was looking at in Boston. Same degree/education as far as I'm concerned.

Those guys at Tampa who left Syracuse, tuition at Tampa is like 28K and total cost about 45k. It adds up.

People who say its a non issue have no idea what they're talking about and they aren't footing the bill. Its a big issue for the bottom half of the roster who are likely getting very little scholarship money if any. Kids can get good merit based aid if they have good grades but still...and Parents are crazy and throw wads of money at everything thinking johnny is going to play D1. Then the kid is saddled with a 100K plus debt for a family development degree.

I think the program's perennial contender status did a lot to offset financial burdens on players' families.

It was a lot easier to sell recruits' families on incremental expense when the program guaranteed a FF appearance in their kids 4 years and a genuine chance at a title.

Hiring Pat March gave me hope that recruiting elite offensive players was possible again. I'm guessing his age has a lot to do with it (and I may be giving him too much credit for Spallina).

If his offense had performed more consistently against some of the better defenses, I'd be less ambivalent about his hire.

While it may seem like a garbage excuse to some, the increasing price tag becomes a bigger recruiting hurdle each year the program stays mediocre.

No amount of tuition increase can justify keeping Rogers after this year.

He's done a ton for the program, was a big catalyst that helped right the ship after 2007 and it's unfortunate but he can't be back in 2022.