It's early? | Syracusefan.com

It's early?

cuseincincy

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Nobody wants to hear that I know. But with 6 freshmen and only 2 returning rotation players we knew it would take a while. But we also want immediate success and to not be down 18 to our mid-major neighbor. I don't know how many games this team can win but I still think the pieces are there to do about anything other than get into 3 point shooting contests with only 1 bullet.

I like Jesse and Joe. They are our team leaders and veterans. But neither of them is good enough to carry us. 10 and 7 vs Colgate is embarrassing for Jesse and Joe can't go 4-15 against anyone if we want to win.

As I agreed with in SWC's Upside both Benny and Judah had good games. Benny making that 3 may have been the worst thing to happen for us but it seemed to give him a little confidence. But too many times I saw Benny pull up at the 3 while Judah or Sy drove. He needs to break that habit. I think Judah did a good job deferring to the veterans but maybe needed to take a little more on himself.

Somebody has got to pass the ball on this team. Yes Colgate shot well but part of that is because they had 22 assists to our 9. With only 1 shooter we need to adapt our game and make the kick out less a part of it.

I said in the beginning of the year, and I stand by it, this season's success will be determined by Bell, Taylor and Copeland. Last night they played a total of 26 minutes with 0 points, 0-4 shooting, 0 rebounds, 1 assist and 1 steal. On the plus side they also had 0 TO's and 0 fouls. Someone asked about the athleticism...here it is and it didn't do anything. Either Bell or Taylor have to step up as shooters. Have to.

Last nights primary lineup was Jesse, Joe, Judah, Benny and Sy. Also known as the veteran lineup. It stunk. And it wasn't what we needed last night. I actually thought the lineup that looked best together plugged Copeland in for Sy. I know many love Sy but he dribbles, a lot. When Copeland comes in it seems Joe and Judah both relax a little and the ball moves better. Gotta contribute more than 1 rebound and 1 steal in 12 minutes though. The top 4 is set, the rest of the minutes are up for grabs.

I have no idea why we stuck with the zone. I thought we were at least contesting in man. But there is no worse defense to play than zone when faced with a bunch of hot shooters.

Because I'm a Syracuse fan I'm conditioned to still believe they can win. I kept saying, get down 10 with 10 to play, make this shot and it'll be 9 with 8 to play. But then we'd miss and they'd hit a 3 and instead of 9 its 15 again. I didn't like the coaching. If we are going to lose I would rather not have 4 players play over 33 minutes. Our veterans just aren't good enough to support that. Neither Taylor or Bell learned anything or got better last night. Another coaching mistake.
 

Sherman20

2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
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Nobody wants to hear that I know. But with 6 freshmen and only 2 returning rotation players we knew it would take a while. But we also want immediate success and to not be down 18 to our mid-major neighbor. I don't know how many games this team can win but I still think the pieces are there to do about anything other than get into 3 point shooting contests with only 1 bullet.

I like Jesse and Joe. They are our team leaders and veterans. But neither of them is good enough to carry us. 10 and 7 vs Colgate is embarrassing for Jesse and Joe can't go 4-15 against anyone if we want to win.

As I agreed with in SWC's Upside both Benny and Judah had good games. Benny making that 3 may have been the worst thing to happen for us but it seemed to give him a little confidence. But too many times I saw Benny pull up at the 3 while Judah or Sy drove. He needs to break that habit. I think Judah did a good job deferring to the veterans but maybe needed to take a little more on himself.

Somebody has got to pass the ball on this team. Yes Colgate shot well but part of that is because they had 22 assists to our 9. With only 1 shooter we need to adapt our game and make the kick out less a part of it.

I said in the beginning of the year, and I stand by it, this season's success will be determined by Bell, Taylor and Copeland. Last night they played a total of 26 minutes with 0 points, 0-4 shooting, 0 rebounds, 1 assist and 1 steal. On the plus side they also had 0 TO's and 0 fouls. Someone asked about the athleticism...here it is and it didn't do anything. Either Bell or Taylor have to step up as shooters. Have to.

Last nights primary lineup was Jesse, Joe, Judah, Benny and Sy. Also known as the veteran lineup. It stunk. And it wasn't what we needed last night. I actually thought the lineup that looked best together plugged Copeland in for Sy. I know many love Sy but he dribbles, a lot. When Copeland comes in it seems Joe and Judah both relax a little and the ball moves better. Gotta contribute more than 1 rebound and 1 steal in 12 minutes though. The top 4 is set, the rest of the minutes are up for grabs.

I have no idea why we stuck with the zone. I thought we were at least contesting in man. But there is no worse defense to play than zone when faced with a bunch of hot shooters.

Because I'm a Syracuse fan I'm conditioned to still believe they can win. I kept saying, get down 10 with 10 to play, make this shot and it'll be 9 with 8 to play. But then we'd miss and they'd hit a 3 and instead of 9 its 15 again. I didn't like the coaching. If we are going to lose I would rather not have 4 players play over 33 minutes. Our veterans just aren't good enough to support that. Neither Taylor or Bell learned anything or got better last night. Another coaching mistake.
Excellent post, Cincy.
 

MikeSU02

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Nobody wants to hear that I know. But with 6 freshmen and only 2 returning rotation players we knew it would take a while. But we also want immediate success and to not be down 18 to our mid-major neighbor. I don't know how many games this team can win but I still think the pieces are there to do about anything other than get into 3 point shooting contests with only 1 bullet.

I like Jesse and Joe. They are our team leaders and veterans. But neither of them is good enough to carry us. 10 and 7 vs Colgate is embarrassing for Jesse and Joe can't go 4-15 against anyone if we want to win.

As I agreed with in SWC's Upside both Benny and Judah had good games. Benny making that 3 may have been the worst thing to happen for us but it seemed to give him a little confidence. But too many times I saw Benny pull up at the 3 while Judah or Sy drove. He needs to break that habit. I think Judah did a good job deferring to the veterans but maybe needed to take a little more on himself.

Somebody has got to pass the ball on this team. Yes Colgate shot well but part of that is because they had 22 assists to our 9. With only 1 shooter we need to adapt our game and make the kick out less a part of it.

I said in the beginning of the year, and I stand by it, this season's success will be determined by Bell, Taylor and Copeland. Last night they played a total of 26 minutes with 0 points, 0-4 shooting, 0 rebounds, 1 assist and 1 steal. On the plus side they also had 0 TO's and 0 fouls. Someone asked about the athleticism...here it is and it didn't do anything. Either Bell or Taylor have to step up as shooters. Have to.

Last nights primary lineup was Jesse, Joe, Judah, Benny and Sy. Also known as the veteran lineup. It stunk. And it wasn't what we needed last night. I actually thought the lineup that looked best together plugged Copeland in for Sy. I know many love Sy but he dribbles, a lot. When Copeland comes in it seems Joe and Judah both relax a little and the ball moves better. Gotta contribute more than 1 rebound and 1 steal in 12 minutes though. The top 4 is set, the rest of the minutes are up for grabs.

I have no idea why we stuck with the zone. I thought we were at least contesting in man. But there is no worse defense to play than zone when faced with a bunch of hot shooters.

Because I'm a Syracuse fan I'm conditioned to still believe they can win. I kept saying, get down 10 with 10 to play, make this shot and it'll be 9 with 8 to play. But then we'd miss and they'd hit a 3 and instead of 9 its 15 again. I didn't like the coaching. If we are going to lose I would rather not have 4 players play over 33 minutes. Our veterans just aren't good enough to support that. Neither Taylor or Bell learned anything or got better last night. Another coaching mistake.

Always can appreciate positivity. I said my two cents in SWC's upside thread. Here is where I get stuck on your post:

"I said in the beginning of the year, and I stand by it, this season's success will be determined by Bell, Taylor and Copeland."


With that statement, assuming we would be a bubble team, at best, seems to be fair, no? You can't expect those three guys to all have a legit impact as frosh.
 

Scooch

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Nobody wants to hear that I know. But with 6 freshmen and only 2 returning rotation players we knew it would take a while. But we also want immediate success and to not be down 18 to our mid-major neighbor. I don't know how many games this team can win but I still think the pieces are there to do about anything other than get into 3 point shooting contests with only 1 bullet.
Everything you wrote is fair. The problem, as I see it anyway, is that there is a long track record of not being able to develop multiple freshmen into high-impact players over the course of a season.

I'm sure we'll see a couple improve. Likely Mintz and one other. But the others won't get enough minutes to do so, that's just how our program works. So we're going to end up with a 6.5-man core that includes our 4 vets.

It's hard to see that core being good enough on both ends of the court to compete in the ACC.
 

cliftonparksufan

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The coaching was pretty horrible. It was the exact same game as last year, with several different players on both teams. That's a problem.
The tell-tale sign was when they showed the Syracuse bench in the 2nd half and the three assistant coaches were sitting there like statues. Not a peep out of one of them.

A few years ago, our bench lineup was coach, player, coach, player, coach, player, and everyone would be engaged. We were the only school to have the players interspersed with the coaches.

From what I saw, there was no engaging going on last night.
 

phil77

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We are young because the coach thought this team could compete as constructed so our expectation are this team will compete not get blown out by Colgate at home for the second straight year. It was JB's choice to not hit the portal for proven experience players that can help now. This is the team he wanted and this is the team he is stuck with and the team that will bury him.
 

Orangezoo

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Nobody wants to hear that I know. But with 6 freshmen and only 2 returning rotation players we knew it would take a while. But we also want immediate success and to not be down 18 to our mid-major neighbor. I don't know how many games this team can win but I still think the pieces are there to do about anything other than get into 3 point shooting contests with only 1 bullet.

I like Jesse and Joe. They are our team leaders and veterans. But neither of them is good enough to carry us. 10 and 7 vs Colgate is embarrassing for Jesse and Joe can't go 4-15 against anyone if we want to win.

As I agreed with in SWC's Upside both Benny and Judah had good games. Benny making that 3 may have been the worst thing to happen for us but it seemed to give him a little confidence. But too many times I saw Benny pull up at the 3 while Judah or Sy drove. He needs to break that habit. I think Judah did a good job deferring to the veterans but maybe needed to take a little more on himself.

Somebody has got to pass the ball on this team. Yes Colgate shot well but part of that is because they had 22 assists to our 9. With only 1 shooter we need to adapt our game and make the kick out less a part of it.

I said in the beginning of the year, and I stand by it, this season's success will be determined by Bell, Taylor and Copeland. Last night they played a total of 26 minutes with 0 points, 0-4 shooting, 0 rebounds, 1 assist and 1 steal. On the plus side they also had 0 TO's and 0 fouls. Someone asked about the athleticism...here it is and it didn't do anything. Either Bell or Taylor have to step up as shooters. Have to.

Last nights primary lineup was Jesse, Joe, Judah, Benny and Sy. Also known as the veteran lineup. It stunk. And it wasn't what we needed last night. I actually thought the lineup that looked best together plugged Copeland in for Sy. I know many love Sy but he dribbles, a lot. When Copeland comes in it seems Joe and Judah both relax a little and the ball moves better. Gotta contribute more than 1 rebound and 1 steal in 12 minutes though. The top 4 is set, the rest of the minutes are up for grabs.

I have no idea why we stuck with the zone. I thought we were at least contesting in man. But there is no worse defense to play than zone when faced with a bunch of hot shooters.

Because I'm a Syracuse fan I'm conditioned to still believe they can win. I kept saying, get down 10 with 10 to play, make this shot and it'll be 9 with 8 to play. But then we'd miss and they'd hit a 3 and instead of 9 its 15 again. I didn't like the coaching. If we are going to lose I would rather not have 4 players play over 33 minutes. Our veterans just aren't good enough to support that. Neither Taylor or Bell learned anything or got better last night. Another coaching mistake.

The problem is timeline. If more bad losses add up you are battling getting better with a miserable locker room from not meeting expectations. So development has to come sooner rather than later and in wins not bad losses. We don't need to care if we can only beat Cornell by a point. We just can't lose to them just like we can lose by double digits to Colgate.
 

Orangezoo

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A 4-6 team or worse heading into ACC play already is essentially toast when it comes to the tourney. That makes it hard for your two seniors to be locked in and not simply waiting for the nightmare to end
 

Zelda Zonk

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It is early in the season. Early in the season with a roster full of players who are early in their college careers.

But, that's an excuse for right now. It doesn't excuse how we got to right now. Or what we were last year. Or what we've been over the past ten years.

Losing to Colgate once in 54 years is excusable. Losing to Colgate twice in 54 years is excusable. Losing to them twice consecutively, right now, that is—to quote Seinfeld's Steinbrenner: in-ex-cus-a-ble!

The state of the program is what is at issue here, not one game, not being premature in declaring the fate of one squad. Yesterday was the proof. Of how far we have sunk. Yesterday was the demonstration to any player who might be considering us for next year or the year after or the year after that.
 

OttoinGrotto

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I'd believe it early in the season to throw in the towel if we had a coach that wasn't such a creature of habit.

We just saw in game 2 him revert to his tendencies.

His tendencies, and what I believe would get the most from this particular group of players this season, are misaligned.
 

cliftonparksufan

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I'd believe it early in the season to throw in the towel if we had a coach that wasn't such a creature of habit.

We just saw in game 2 him revert to his tendencies.

His tendencies, and what I believe would get the most from this particular group of players this season, are misaligned.
That's what was most disappointing. Versus Lehigh, he made lots of substitutions, at least in the first half, and played man maybe 85% of the time. Coaches were very active. Nine guys played over 11 minutes

Game two we substituted very little and played zone way too much as they bombed away. Although playing man wasn't effective either, maybe getting fresh guys in and out to really play in your face defense would make a difference. Only six guys played over 12 minutes.
 

Cuse99&01

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It is early in the season. Early in the season with a roster full of players who are early in their college careers.

But, that's an excuse for right now. It doesn't excuse how we got to right now. Or what we were last year. Or what we've been over the past ten years.

Losing to Colgate once in 54 years is excusable. Losing to Colgate twice in 54 years is excusable. Losing to them twice consecutively, right now, that is—to quote Seinfeld's Steinbrenner: in-ex-cus-a-ble!

The state of the program is what is at issue here, not one game, not being premature in declaring the fate of one squad. Yesterday was the proof. Of how far we have sunk. Yesterday was the demonstration to any player who might be considering us for next year or the year after or the year after that.
Yes early in the season and early in the careers of several of the players. However not early in JB's coaching career and that is where the problem is rooted. All that experience yet it his decisions (1. not to get players from the portal year after year despite the fact that the roster is deficient in specific areas and 2. stay in a zone that leaves really good shooters wide open over and over) are what is hurting this team and program.
 

Trueblue25

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The players can develop all they’d like.

We have a bad coach and arguably useless assistants. Its harsh but over multiple years I have very little reason to believe otherwise
 

CousCuse

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Matt Langel is a very sound coach and Colgate is getting stronger and stronger each year that he stays there. Their confident and have achieved some solid success. In the NCAAT last year, they didn't shy away from Wisky but they couldn't get there 3 ball to go down or they could have won that game. I remember when Gonzaga was building up out in the middle of nowhere and I thought who the hell are they, well, 25 years later they are a big time program. Colgate has grown and really, if I were to find fault with JB on anything, it would be scheduling Colgate early in the season do to a tradition or notalgia. Colgate's too good now to be an early season game that ideally you want to get new players experience and still get a win.
 

Zelda Zonk

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I have zero doubt that if Langel had SU's players and (maybe) a week of practice, he would slaughter JAB and Colgate's players.
Exactly.
The myth that "JB does the most with the least" was always ridiculous.
 

Jasoncuse

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That's what was most disappointing. Versus Lehigh, he made lots of substitutions, at least in the first half, and played man maybe 85% of the time. Coaches were very active. Nine guys played over 11 minutes

Game two we substituted very little and played zone way too much as they bombed away. Although playing man wasn't effective either, maybe getting fresh guys in and out to really play in your face defense would make a difference. Only six guys played over 12 minutes.
Funny thing is, since it appears JB has some willingness to play man, why the F didn't we hit the portal for guys with experience and proven college talent, instead of relying on raw freshmen who aren't ready mentally or physically?!? We've always heard about needing time in the system and to learn the nuances of the zone, and blah blah blah, but what...system, what defense?? At this point, JB should've been trying to maximize talent and win that way instead of whatever it is we're doing...
 

Zelda Zonk

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Funny thing is, since it appears JB has some willingness to play man, why the F didn't we hit the portal for guys with experience and proven college talent, instead of relying on raw freshmen who aren't ready mentally or physically?!? We've always heard about needing time in the system and to learn the nuances of the zone, and blah blah blah, but what...system, what defense?? At this point, JB should've been trying to maximize talent and win that way instead of whatever it is we're doing...
I am half on the side of 'this was just JB being lazy,' and half on the side of 'JB recruited a class of freshmen and it would have been douchey to later go out and get guys who would have needed assurances of playing time/starting roles, even before the freshmen had had a chance to prove themselves worthy.'

The Portal thing is tricky. And it's icky. Recruiting is partially about relationships. The problem, though, begins with having so many holes to fill in one recruiting class. When you do that, you're going to be at a disadvantage with the youth/inexperience. It's a bed that was made well before Game 1 2022.
 

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