It's just a shot away

[domestu]

SU's starters have outscored their opponents starters in all fifteen games this season. But the Orange continues to struggle with bench production and our subs have been outscored by our opponents subs in every game. Our bench has only made five field goals and scored 15 points in our four ACC games while opposing subs produced 68 points in those contests. One of Wake's bench players got 13 points on Saturday. Benny hit two field goals against Wake but it was only the fourth time in the last twelve games that one of our bench players has made more than one basket in a game. Our bench has been outscored 329-100 by opposing bench players this season. Syracuse really needs more from Benny, Frank and Symir when they're in the game. Go Cuse!

 

[CuseCrew08]

Can you compare bench minutes for us and opponents? I bet its more than 3.3 to 1.

 

[djcon57]

SU's starters have outscored their opponents starters in all fifteen games this season. But the Orange continues to struggle with bench production and our subs have been outscored by our opponents subs in every game. Our bench has only made five field goals and scored 15 points in our four ACC games while opposing subs produced 68 points in those contests. One of Wake's bench players got 13 points on Saturday. Benny hit two field goals against Wake but it was only the fourth time in the last twelve games that one of our bench players has made more than one basket in a game. Our bench has been outscored 329-100 by opposing bench players this season. Syracuse really needs more from Benny, Frank and Symir when they're in the game. Go Cuse!

In order to get more from ones bench, you have to actually have to play them.

 

[domestu]

Can you compare bench minutes for us and opponents? I bet its more than 3.3 to 1.

Syracuse bench players have scored 100 points in 561 minutes of action this season. Our opponents subs have scored 329 points in 938 minutes.

And it doesn't matter how many minutes our subs play or who the opponent is, our opponents subs score more points per minute than we do. Here are the stats in the games where our bench played the most minutes.
SU subs 16 points in 67 minutes vs Lafayette 21 points in 75 minutes.
SU 8 points in 53 minutes vs Drexel 24 points in 79 minutes.
SU 12 points in 42 minutes vs Colgate 28 points in 48 minutes.
SU subs 11 points in 54 minutes vs Auburn 33 bench points in 79 minutes.
SU 16 points in 59 minutes vs Brown 31 points in 94 minutes.
SU 5 bench points in 44 minutes vs Cornell 38 points in 95 minutes.

Here are the figures for our last three contests.
SU subs 4 points in 31 minutes vs Virginia 11 points in 42 minutes.
SU 3 points in 23 minutes vs Miami 19 points in 59 minutes.
SU 7 bench points in 39 minutes vs Wake Forest 13 points in 35 minutes.

 

[Scooch]

Those stats are damning. At the same time, we purposefully didn't construct a bench to contribute meaningfully this season. It sure wouldn't hurt if there was a viable 9th or 10th player to challenge the 6/7/8 for productive minutes, but we decided this summer that we didn't need that as well.

 

[ar inj]

Those stats are damning. At the same time, we purposefully didn't construct a bench to contribute meaningfully this season. It sure wouldn't hurt if there was a viable 9th or 10th player to challenge the 6/7/8 for productive minutes, but we decided this summer that we didn't need that as well.

What do you mean "we". The head coach made that decision

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Would be interesting to see field goal attempts as well. Our subs have been essentially told not to shoot except in cert circumstances. Frank is only allowed to dunk. Benny’s leash seems to be lengthened.

 

[domestu]

Would be interesting to see field goal attempts as well. Our subs have been essentially told not to shoot except in cert circumstances. Frank is only allowed to dunk. Benny’s leash seems to be lengthened.

Believe me, our bench players shooting percentages don't look any better than their points per minute played compared to our opponents subs.. When our subs are being out shot and outscored by Cornell and Colgate's bench players, you have a serious problem. When it becomes a rarity for one of our guys to come off the bench and make two field goals in a game, it is a recipe for disaster.

I like the contributions Frank has made when he is in the game but Benny and Symir need to do a lot more when they are in there. I can only think of one previous SU team with a similar lack of production off the bench. I keep hoping that these guys will step up and contribute more. Tomorrow night would be a great place to start. Go Cuse!

 

[NineOneSeven]

I mean you could start Benny for 3' and then play Jimmy for 35'. Production wouldn't change but Jimmy would be considered a bench player. We've seen this with Coleman, Christmas, Fab Melo as freshmen.

Bench production, while clearly nonexistent from a scoring perspective, is not really THAT significant with regards to our record imo.

 

[Scooch]

I mean you could start Benny for 3' and then play Jimmy for 35'. Production wouldn't change but Jimmy would be considered a bench player. We've seen this with Coleman, Christmas, Fab Melo as freshmen.

Bench production, while clearly nonexistent from a scoring perspective, is not really THAT significant with regards to our record imo.

aka The Tony Bland 3-minute Token Starter Endowed Roster Spot.

 

[two3zone]

Believe me, our bench players shooting percentages don't look any better than their points per minute played compared to our opponents subs.. When our subs are being out shot and outscored by Cornell and Colgate's bench players, you have a serious problem. When it becomes a rarity for one of our guys to come off the bench and make two field goals in a game, it is a recipe for disaster.

I like the contributions Frank has made when he is in the game but Benny and Symir need to do a lot more when they are in there. I can only think of one previous SU team with a similar lack of production off the bench. I keep hoping that these guys will step up and contribute more. Tomorrow night would be a great place to start. Go Cuse!

When Benny was on the court with Jimmy, Buddy, Joe and Cole, how many times do you think he even touched the ball in 9 minutes?

 

[domestu]

When Benny was on the court with Jimmy, Buddy, Joe and Cole, how many times do you think he even touched the ball in 9 minutes?

Benny played 24 minutes against Wake. The reason he only played 9 minutes versus Miami is Jesse had the game of his life and logged 38 minutes and Cole also had a good game. Jimmy played fewer minutes than normal and was usually on the bench when Benny was in. We also went with three guards more than we generally do because of the makeup of Miami's team. Go Cuse!

 

[two3zone]

Benny played 24 minutes against Wake. The reason he only played 9 minutes versus Miami is Jesse had the game of his life and logged 38 minutes and Cole also had a good game. Jimmy played fewer minutes than normal and was usually on the bench when Benny was in. We also went with three guards more than we generally do because of the makeup of Miami's team. Go Cuse!

You’re missing my point, when Benny was on the court with those guys do you think he’s going to touch the ball at all? He’s the 5th option and realistically not an option at all, ditto for Frank and for Symir, they’ll never be a scoring option when they play.

 

[domestu]

Benny took seven shots in the Wake game and touched the ball a lot when he was on the court with those guys. I feel Syracuse was really looking to him as a scoring option during the 24 minutes he played on Saturday. He also passed up some open looks. I understand what you're saying but believe we were trying to get Benny more involved in the offense against Wake.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

Our bench scores more than a dead guy so we good

 

[rottweiler44]

IDK. When you have starters that play defense as poorly as 4/5 as ours do, points scored is really not the correct metric to look at in isolation, it's only half of the story. The most glaring weakness for this team is on the defensive side and rebounding. I think the the 3 players on the bench help with this immensely, in the rare opportunities that they are given the chance to. Also, Symir brings a different pace to the offense, creates more runouts, and is able to find Joe for open 3's, as Joe is playing in position at 2. It's fairly easy to identify the dynamic that cuts into his playing time.

 

[CardiacCuse]

You’re missing my point, when Benny was on the court with those guys do you think he’s going to touch the ball at all? He’s the 5th option and realistically not an option at all, ditto for Frank and for Symir, they’ll never be a scoring option when they play.

symir is averaging over 10 assists/40 minutes...which is spectacular.

for perspective...the all-time assists leader in NCAA history, Bobby Hurley, recorded just over 1000 assists in his Duke career...averaging 7.68 a game. ..in 34min/game.

yes the bench scoring would be great but Symir doesnt need to score to impact the game.

i would try starting symir and bringing one of joe or buddy off the bench.

i would bench buddy. hes shooting 32% from threee this year...which is... not good.

joe is shooting 47% from 3 which is amazing. he is the better 2 guard.

when you bring buddy in he can go off and be a ball hog for the time hes on the court.

i think a lineup of symir joe benny/jimmy swider and jesse will score plenty and also be better on defense.

buddy can be the x factor off the bench.

will never happen because love is blind. but might work better.

thing is when buddy is in the game...especailly in the second half the other players have a hard time doing anything on offense. buddy just goes iso all the time. so making him

also the team might work better with a PG and SG and not two SGs.

if dion can come off the bench buddy can too.

at this point, why not try it?

 

[orangecuse]

 

[AlaskaSU]

Syracuse bench players have scored 100 points in 561 minutes of action this season. Our opponents subs have scored 329 points in 938 minutes.

And it doesn't matter how many minutes our subs play or who the opponent is, our opponents subs score more points per minute than we do. Here are the stats in the games where our bench played the most minutes.
SU subs 16 points in 67 minutes vs Lafayette 21 points in 75 minutes.
SU 8 points in 53 minutes vs Drexel 24 points in 79 minutes.
SU 12 points in 42 minutes vs Colgate 28 points in 48 minutes.
SU subs 11 points in 54 minutes vs Auburn 33 bench points in 79 minutes.
SU 16 points in 59 minutes vs Brown 31 points in 94 minutes.
SU 5 bench points in 44 minutes vs Cororenell 38 points in 95 minutes.

Here are the figures for our last three contests.
SU subs 4 points in 31 minutes vs Virginia 11 points in 42 minutes.
SU 3 points in 23 minutes vs Miami 19 points in 59 minutes.
SU 7 bench points in 39 minutes vs Wake Forest 13 points in 35 minutes.

Bingo, the more we play our bench, the m

IDK. When you have starters that play defense as poorly as 4/5 as ours do, points scored is really not the correct metric to look at in isolation, it's only half of the story. The most glaring weakness for this team is on the defensive side and rebounding. I think the the 3 players on the bench help with this immensely, in the rare opportunities that they are given the chance to. Also, Symir brings a different pace to the offense, creates more runouts, and is able to find Joe for open 3's, as Joe is playing in position at 2. It's fairly easy to identify the dynamic that cuts into his playing time.

Of the 3 only Symir is an improvement on D and his offense is such a weakness that on any good team he would be glued to the bench as he was at Marquette. No way around it, more bench minutes is not a solution. JB has forgotten more about basketball rosters than all the posters that want to see more of our bench.
Conspiracy theories about puposely having a poor bench are ridiculous. Does anyone really believe that JB does not want to win, or that he would tank the program? We had too many transfers and too little success landing our first and second choice recruits.

 

[capeorange]

This was my first thought when I read the thread title.

 

[rottweiler44]

Bingo, the more we play our bench, the m
Of the 3 only Symir is an improvement on D and his offense is such a weakness that on any good team he would be glued to the bench as he was at Marquette. No way around it, more bench minutes is not a solution. JB has forgotten more about basketball rosters than all the posters that want to see more of our bench.
Conspiracy theories about puposely having a poor bench are ridiculous. Does anyone really believe that JB does not want to win, or that he would tank the program? We had too many transfers and too little success landing our first and second choice recruits.

Clouded judgement, not tanking games. It's pretty easy to see to the trained eye. Also, quite a few former players seem to agree with all of the posters on these boards.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bingo, the more we play our bench, the m
Of the 3 only Symir is an improvement on D and his offense is such a weakness that on any good team he would be glued to the bench as he was at Marquette. No way around it, more bench minutes is not a solution. JB has forgotten more about basketball rosters than all the posters that want to see more of our bench.
Conspiracy theories about puposely having a poor bench are ridiculous. Does anyone really believe that JB does not want to win, or that he would tank the program? We had too many transfers and too little success landing our first and second choice recruits.

Recruiting hasn’t been near the issue you claim it is. It’s the management.

I think he’s mismanaged the bench and it’s caused good talent to leave which leads to people complaining about recruiting when the guys that transferred all showed to have useful talent.

I think JB has preordained lineups early in the season and his stubbornness causes him to not move off it which has hurt the team and prevented some of our younger players to not get minutes and eventually transfer.

Now we’re the transfers of unnamed pg, Woody Newton and Braswell due to the fact they weren’t good players or was it because they weren’t going to get minutes or didn’t get the minutes they thought they should get?

If we had those guys I doubt you’re complaining about recruiting.

Look at Edwards. This board was screaming for him to play from November to January last year. It took JB until February to dust him off. If he didn’t do that you would have thought he had no talent when he did in fact have talent.

The management is bad.

It‘s no different from a business causing good employees to leave because they weren’t treated how they thought they should be treated. Our management relies on 5 or 6 guys doing everything and in some cases they can’t.

 

[Bball44]

Recruiting hasn’t been near the issue you claim it is. It’s the management.

I think he’s mismanaged the bench and it’s caused good talent to leave which leads to people complaining about recruiting when the guys that transferred all showed to have useful talent.

I think JB has preordained lineups early in the season and his stubbornness causes him to not move off it which has hurt the team and prevented some of our younger players to not get minutes and eventually transfer.

Now we’re the transfers of unnamed pg, Woody Newton and Braswell due to the fact they weren’t good players or was it because they weren’t going to get minutes or didn’t get the minutes they thought they should get?

If we had those guys I doubt you’re complaining about recruiting.

Look at Edwards. This board was screaming for him to play from November to January last year. It took JB until February to dust him off. If he didn’t do that you would have thought he had no talent when he did in fact have talent.

The management is bad.

It‘s no different from a business causing good employees to leave because they weren’t treated how they thought they should be treated. Our management relies on 5 or 6 guys doing everything and in some cases they can’t.

Braswell played a lot the end of last year, basically taking minutes from AG and Woody. Think he would have played even more this year since he was very good in the zone.

 

[domestu]

This was my first thought when I read the thread title.

I was thinking of "Gimme Shelter" when I did the post. The lyrics were percolating in my mind as I was looking thru our games this year.

 

[capeorange]

I was thinking of "Gimme Shelter" when I did the post. The lyrics were percolating in my mind as I was looking thru our games this year.

And now they're stuck in my head lol