Class of 2019 - CG Joe Girard III (NY) SIGNED WITH SYRACUSE | Page 17 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2019 CG Joe Girard III (NY) SIGNED WITH SYRACUSE

Status
Not open for further replies.
I gotta say that I'm pretty sick of the constant roster instability.
No doubt we've had our share of drama but this is what cbb has become. We are not Duke or Kentucky so when we go after top talent and lose out there is no plan B. Too much parity and too many guys leaving early who shouldn't equals roster imbalance.
 
I gotta say that I'm pretty sick of the constant roster instability.

Ditto -- which is why it is vital for the coaching staff to construct the roster both with high major recruits and with four year program types, to build year-over-year continuity and get us out of the depth rut we've faced the past few years.

Personally, if Girard is "good enough" to play at this level, I'd prefer to see the coaches extend an offer and be done with guards for the class of 2019.
 
The conventional wisdom on here is simply incorrect. Height in the zone is a blessing, lateral mobility and quickness is also. The most important aspect is the ability to react, move with the ball in the air, understand and utilize the angles and how other players move. A player needs to know how to get their hands in passing lanes. A six footer can outperform a taller player in the zone. These are independent variables which impact on a sliding scale. Read the eyes, know the lay of the land and move with the ball in the air. I am not saying height isn't important. It just isn't the be all end all some people on here think it is.
 
Last edited:
I have to question his evaluation process if he watched yesterday’s game. How can anyone in their right mind think we don’t need guards that can put the ball in the basket. This is mind-boggling. I’m already starting to question his motives with his son coming on the team. God forbid if we bring someone in that might shoot better than Buddy. SU currently has three empty scholarships on this team. The management of this roster has been pathetic the past three years. You can blame the sanctions, but that’s also on this staff.
Totally agree with you. A bit worried about the Buddy situation too. Hope he is great and its' not an issue, but, as Francis03 noted recently, JB isn't bringing Buddy in to sit the bench. What happens if he struggles. Will he pull him? Does he overcompensate and go harder on Buddy and not show any extreme prejudice? JB is not someone who in my experience is sensitive to team feelings. Heck, we have been told Hop had to pull many back from the brink after JB tore into them.

Girard is a pure shooter. Shorter than we like, but a NYS kid, who we can bring in, and develop. If Gerry, John Gillon, and Jonny Flynn, can play the zone, so can Joe.
 
Last edited:
If we get guys like Girard, we won't need to have emergencies and get guys like Gillon and Thorpe

I'd argue the "emergency scholarship" situations are also somewhat strategic. Sometimes you have to address unforeseen immediate needs with proven players to be/stay/get competitive, which you can't always count on with developmental-type players on a yearly basis. There's a reason for the burgeoning grad transfer market, aside from the rules themselves. I don't necessarily agree with addressing needs one way or the other, I'm just pointing out that it's not as black and white as you presuppose.
 
Totally agree with you. A bit worried about the Buddy situation too. Hope he is great and its' not an issue, but, as Francis03 noted recently, JB isn't bringing Buddy in to sit the bench. What happens if he struggles. Will he pull him? Does he overcompensate and go harder on Buddy and not show any extreme prejudice? JB is not someone who in my experience is sensitive to team feelings. Heck, we have been told Hop had to pull many back from the brink after JB tore into them.

Girard is a pure shooter. Shorter than we like, but a NYS kid, who we can bring in, and develop. If Gerry, John Gillon, and Jonny Flynn, can play the zone, so can Joe.

He's no Flynn or Gillon. He's closer to McNamara in that they don't possess the athleticism of the aforementioned.
 
I'm not saying that Girard is "the guy" or a "must get" by any means, but the notion that we can't fill out the roster to build depth is a stance I reject.

. . . .

Again, I'm not suggesting that Girard is the guy we absolutely must offer a scholarship to; maybe the staff views him as being duplicative of a guy like Washington, who might end up being a career backup but is a pure lead guard who can also shoot.

I basically agree with you. The one quibble I would have is that if the staff views Girard as duplicative of Washington, that makes no sense. I don’t think it’s really possible for a 2019 program kid to be duplicative of Washington because we wouldn’t necessarily expect a 2019 program kid to be a rotation guy until after Washington is gone.

I also disagree with one poster’s comment that we don’t want a guy like Cooney. I want a guy like Cooney in the program. I don’t want a guy like him to start for three years, but senior Cooney was very serviceable and guys like him provide depth in case of unexpected departures or injuries.
 
I basically agree with you. The one quibble I would have is that if the staff views Girard as duplicative of Washington, that makes no sense. I don’t think it’s really possible for a 2019 program kid to be duplicative of Washington because we wouldn’t necessarily expect a 2019 program kid to be a rotation guy until after Washington is gone.

I also disagree with one poster’s comment that we don’t want a guy like Cooney. I want a guy like Cooney in the program. I don’t want a guy like him to start for three years, but senior Cooney was very serviceable and guys like him provide depth in case of unexpected departures or injuries.
Cooney's 5 NCAA tournament games in 2016 were the best overall 5 game stretch of his career. He scored. He defended. He played winning championship caliber basketball.
 
Every upset in CBB yesterday had players that come off the bench a hit shots, except SU. He's got to recruit shooters. Last year we had shooters but they were both grad transfers. We will never be a NC again until he has Rautins, McNamara and Cooneys type players.
It is still basketball, the key being ability to put the ball in the basket. Great to have athletes but if they can not play basketball(make shots) you are going to lose a lot.
 
Totally agree with you. A bit worried about the Buddy situation too. Hope he is great and its' not an issue, but, as Francis03 noted recently, JB isn't bringing Buddy in to sit the bench. What happens if he struggles. Will he pull him? Does he overcompensate and go harder on Buddy and not show any extreme prejudice? JB is not someone who in my experience is sensitive to team feelings. Heck, we have been told Hop had to pull many back from the brink after JB tore into them.

Girard is a pure shooter. Shorter than we like, but a NYS kid, who we can bring in, and develop. If Gerry, John Gillon, and Jonny Flynn, can play the zone, so can Joe.
Flynn was a top 20 recruit, Gillon couldnt play the zone and yeah Gerry fits here
 
Ditto -- which is why it is vital for the coaching staff to construct the roster both with high major recruits and with four year program types, to build year-over-year continuity and get us out of the depth rut we've faced the past few years.

Personally, if Girard is "good enough" to play at this level, I'd prefer to see the coaches extend an offer and be done with guards for the class of 2019.
Gerard's one issue. Roster construction/continuity is another (much bigger) issue. As you point out, we need a mix of elite and program players. That's been our formula for success over the years, going way back. Elite players are going to leave for the NBA in 1-2 years. When that happens, you can try to replace them. But that's not always possible. So program guys keep the ship afloat.

My gripe is that we're not taking what the NCAA is giving us. Even when we had 12 schollies, we took 10 guys. This year we have 8 (the 9th is on RS). Why? If someone leaves the program and one or two guys get nicked up, you're SOL (that's us this year). We now have 13 scholarships to use. Let's use them. If guys like Gerard can take a scholarship that would ordinarily sit idle or be given to a WO, all the better for the program.
 
Gerard's one issue. Roster construction/continuity is another (much bigger) issue. As you point out, we need a mix of elite and program players. That's been our formula for success over the years, going way back. Elite players are going to leave for the NBA in 1-2 years. When that happens, you can try to replace them. But that's not always possible. So program guys keep the ship afloat.

My gripe is that we're not taking what the NCAA is giving us. Even when we had 12 schollies, we took 10 guys. This year we have 8 (the 9th is on RS). Why? If someone leaves the program and one or two guys get nicked up, you're SOL (that's us this year). We now have 13 scholarships to use. Let's use them. If guys like Gerard can take a scholarship that would ordinarily sit idle or be given to a WO, all the better for the program.

I agree - it's nice to have those program/developmental guys as #11-13 on the roster, and no reason not to anymore.
Assuming he'd be interested & willing to potentially be bench fodder, why not take a flyer on this kid?
It'd be nice to have our own Random White Guy(tm) who can come off the bench and drain five 3's, and make the other team's fans go Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??!! Who is this guy?? :p

Side note (and yes, I know I've said things like this before):
Does anybody else think it's bizarre that the thread for a kid we haven't offered has way more posts on it, than those for THREE GUYS whom we actually HAVE OFFERED combined?

The 3 Lecque, Achiuwa, and Whitney threads together total less than this one.
 
This is 2018 not 2003. The game is different.
How so? I don’t disagree but I think we have different answers as to why. The game is dominated by shooters now. Team style offenses meant to throw it around to get a three or score inside. The midrange is the least effective and efficient shot in the game. ISO b-ball is dead. And what do we play and what system do we recruit for?

People wonder why SU guys struggle in the nba and it’s a variety of things but mostly they can’t throw it in the ocean on a regular basis.
 
How so? I don’t disagree but I think we have different answers as to why. The game is dominated by shooters now. Team style offenses meant to throw it around to get a three or score inside. The midrange is the least effective and efficient shot in the game. ISO b-ball is dead. And what do we play and what system do we recruit for?

People wonder why SU guys struggle in the nba and it’s a variety of things but mostly they can’t throw it in the ocean on a regular basis.
Simple, really. As you said, the game is dominated by shooters now. The most important part of the zone when it comes to defense is having guards that can close out 3 point shooters and have the athleticism to rotate quickly at the top. Gerry would be an enormous weak link for our defense if he was on this iteration of the team.
 
I basically agree with you. The one quibble I would have is that if the staff views Girard as duplicative of Washington, that makes no sense. I don’t think it’s really possible for a 2019 program kid to be duplicative of Washington because we wouldn’t necessarily expect a 2019 program kid to be a rotation guy until after Washington is gone.

I also disagree with one poster’s comment that we don’t want a guy like Cooney. I want a guy like Cooney in the program. I don’t want a guy like him to start for three years, but senior Cooney was very serviceable and guys like him provide depth in case of unexpected departures or injuries.

Like Washington, he Girard is a pretty small guard [6-1 165 pounds]. He's also a three-star, as was Washington -- which is not normally the type of player we target on the recruiting trail. Quite a few similarities.

Please note, I'm not saying that their games are identical -- just that the coaching staff might not want to take on two project guards who are on the smallish side [then again, maybe they would -- I really haven't seen enough of Girard to assess his game / fit, beyond hearing anecdotally that he is a prolific scorer and ostensibly a terrific shooter].
 
Last edited:
Like Washington, he Girard is a pretty small guard [6-1 165 pounds]. He's also a three-star, as was Washington -- which is not normally the type of player we target on the recruiting trail. Quite a few similarities. Please note, I'm not saying that their games are identical -- just that the coaching staff might not want to take on two project guards who are on the smallish side [then again, maybe they would -- I really haven't seen enough of Girard to assess his game / fit, beyond hearing anecdotally that he is a prolific scorer and ostensibly a terrific shooter].
Totally agree with you RF. The problem with recruiting is this... Is Howard Washington going to be on the 2019 team? Not saying he shouldn't be and doesn't deserve to be, but I think the fact he has already been recruited over is telling. Will he want to stay and battle Goodine for the start? Pretty sure Frank gets it next year for 35 mpg, and then does Jalen Carey stay for a sophomore season? If so, he will be playing a lot. Is Goodine a SG or PG? Will Buddy be the SG starter in 2019, forcing BG to play exclusively PG? Do you bring in Girard now, and risk it? Super tough decisions, but, I think the certainty of our lineup in 2019 including, Carey, Goodine, Washington, Boeheim, Hughes is almost zero. Goes back to Masons frustrations about roster turnover. Mismanaging these situations, on top of sanctions, has killed us the last few years.
 
How so? I don’t disagree but I think we have different answers as to why. The game is dominated by shooters now. Team style offenses meant to throw it around to get a three or score inside. The midrange is the least effective and efficient shot in the game. ISO b-ball is dead. And what do we play and what system do we recruit for?

People wonder why SU guys struggle in the nba and it’s a variety of things but mostly they can’t throw it in the ocean on a regular basis.

The fact of the matter is most of our teams are below average three point shooting teams, Outside of the last two years we have been in the bottom half of division 1 in three point shooting. We've been in the bottom 200 three out of the last 6 years. You can't score in this era if you don't have shooters. It makes it almost impossible. We've only been in the top 50 in shooting twice in the last 16 years. Last year and in 2010. Frankly the trend recently has been to give up a ton of 3's while not being able to make any ourselves.
 
The fact of the matter is most of our teams are below average three point shooting teams, Outside of the last two years we have been in the bottom half of division 1 in three point shooting. We've been in the bottom 200 three out of the last 6 years. You can't score in this era if you don't have shooters. It makes it almost impossible. We've only been in the top 50 in shooting twice in the last 16 years. Last year and in 2010. Frankly the trend recently has been to give up a ton of 3's while not being able to make any ourselves.

I do agree that we don't put enough emphasis on recruiting shooters, but I also think some of the stats here are somewhat skewed by our offensive system, which is so isolation dependent that a lot of the three point shots that we end up getting are late shot clock contested threes. So we've had a bunch of guys who I think are a bit better shooters than their numbers might suggest. Many of the years you cite, we only had one or two legitimate three point shooting threats, and it is easier for an opposing defense to key in on a single shooter than it is to respond to a team full of shooters. For instance, how many crazy off balanced fading threes did Cooney shoot in his career, many of which came on designed plays (baseline double screen then run out to the arc to receive the ball, arrest his momentum, and pivot into the shot)? SR Rautins could hit that shot, but he had a better team around him to set up the screens and deliver the ball to him in rhythm.

So yeah, we need more shooters, clearly, but I also think we suffer statistically from the offensive scheme.
 
If we were still going to be on a scholarship reduction, I would say pass.

But back at full force, there is NO reason not to offer. He can shoot, he's a winner, he's a NY kid. If he's willing to come and earn his chance, he should be offered.

I'm not going to say he's the next Gmac, or Jimmer. But maybe he can be a steal, a spark plug, instant offense off the bench. He's too good not to offer and give him a chance. If he doesn't pan out, no big deal. If he's too much like Buddy... so what. We need depth, and guys who can shoot.

Offer the kid. If he goes to a school where he can get more playing time, I won't blame him. But if we don't offer and he's a star elsewhere, that'd be a darn shame. Offer him!
 
He is a one-tool player (exemplary in that respect though). That kid is in the gym constantly. My understanding is that Uncle is the coach and has pretty much given Joe the keys to the gym since he was a wee-little one. It wouldnt surprise me if he was pretty much maxed out athletically.

I've seen nothing to change my opinion on him. If there's a slot, offer him. We need a kid who can shoot it. I assume he is both talented and cerebral enough to not hurt the team in other ways.

Kid should have prepped this year. He's not a 6'6" point guard playing for one of the premier programs Upstate (aka Huerter). Platek from Guilderland got a ride to UNC after prepping in the the NEPSAC. Even Hameir Wright had the benefit of playing an independent schedule at Academy. Girard could have benefited from playing against real competition. That Scotia team Glens Falls lost to, lost to Ballston Spa, an average Class AA team by 28 points. This was before my time, but didnt his father jump from the Catholic school in Glens Falls to play at Shen his senior year?
Why prep as a Junior? His Dad did transfer to Shen back in the day. His team was better last year in both sports. I have seen him play too, but only once this year where he was literally guarded by 4 guys. Not sure that is helping him much.
 
Simple, really. As you said, the game is dominated by shooters now. The most important part of the zone when it comes to defense is having guards that can close out 3 point shooters and have the athleticism to rotate quickly at the top. Gerry would be an enormous weak link for our defense if he was on this iteration of the team.

Thank you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
167,143
Messages
4,682,940
Members
5,901
Latest member
CarlsbergMD

Online statistics

Members online
124
Guests online
1,172
Total visitors
1,296


Top Bottom