Joe Girard-Trevor Cooney

Dodger44

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Is Joe Girard the new Trevor Cooney. Trevor was a good player for SU but you never knew which Cooney would show up. The one that scored a whole lot of points or the one that didn't. So far you don't know which Girard will show up in the box score. Hopefully he will become a consistent scorer every night.
 

Dodger44

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Is Joe Girard the new Trevor Cooney. Trevor was a good player for SU but you never knew which Cooney would show up. The one that scored a whole lot of points or the one that didn't. So far you don't know which Girard will show up in the box score. Hopefully he will become a consistent scorer every night.
 

MSOrange

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The thing is Cooney was great at the top of the zone. If he had a poor shooting night, you knew he’d be there defensively. If Joe isn’t scoring, what’s he bringing to the table?

I agree. It seemed like Trevor was able to bring other contributions to the table when his shot wasn't falling.
 

StLouisCuse

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Joe Girard cannot hold a candle next to Trevor Cooney at this point. Looking at his performance thus far, it can be argued he is actually a liability on the court for us (akin to playing 4 vs 5) for several reasons which have been articulated on this board. For the betterment of the team, it is clear his playing time needs to be reduced dramatically which should come in due time with Buddy's return.
 

GoSU96

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Joe is capable of being an excellent shooter with deep range and an adequate lead guard.

If he isn't hitting his shots Jim needs to sit him. He has one skill that gets him on the floor, if he doesn't get that fixed there are other guys who then bring more to the table.
 

Eric15

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Trevor is much bigger and 10x the athlete that Joe is. When Cooney would get a breakaway he would throw down a dunk with two hands, whereas with Joe you never know what you're going to get and seems to get caught from behind a lot.

That said, I think Joe's ceiling is probably higher for shooting ability. Although his current percentages don't reflect that.
 

721Comstock

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Trevor is much bigger and 10x the athlete that Joe is. When Cooney would get a breakaway he would throw down a dunk with two hands, whereas with Joe you never know what you're going to get and seems to get caught from behind a lot.

That said, I think Joe's ceiling is probably higher for shooting ability. Although his current percentages don't reflect that.

THIS.

I’ll never forget the @ BC game, where a Trevor stole a pass, drive down and dunked ferociously.

Then I’m looking at the TV, and they’re showing the play again. Hmm? Ok.

And then a little while later, again. What??

I’m like - “why do they keep re-showing this replay?

But he’d just done the same thing, 3 times in a row.
It was 3 different plays, all with the same ending. :cool:

Joe will likely never get 3 steals like that.
He will definitely never finish 3 breakaways with monster slams.
 

CuseFTW

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THIS.

I’ll never forget the @ BC game, where a Trevor stole a pass, drive down and dunked ferociously.

Then I’m looking at the TV, and they’re showing the play again. Hmm? Ok.

And then a little while later, again. What??

I’m like - “why do they keep re-showing this replay?

But he’d just done the same thing, 3 times in a row.
It was 3 different plays, all with the same ending. :cool:

Joe will likely never get 3 steals like that.
He will definitely never finish 3 breakaways with monster slams.

Joe will also never be 6’4
 

CuseFTW

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Sherm reverse-dunked on a breakaway to seal the win vs Georgetown in his final game in the Dome.

Sherm & Joe are the same height.

(And Jonny is several inches shorter... )

My response was in comparison to Cooney.

Listen - I get JG isnt a freak athlete. But there are more 6'0 guards in the NCAA who lay up than ones who throw down jams on breakaways. I don't think JG being able to reverse dunk on a breakaway is going to win us any more games than if he can't
 

721Comstock

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My response was in comparison to Cooney.

Listen - I get JG isnt a freak athlete. But there are more 6'0 guards in the NCAA who lay up than ones who throw down jams on breakaways. I don't think JG being able to reverse dunk on a breakaway is going to win us any more games than if he can't

Agreed.
But, he's more likely to get swatted on an attempted breakaway layup (IF he ever even got into a position to try one), and no - I do NOT expect him to try to dunk.

Which is where the comparison to Trevor begins, and ends.
Trevor took some questionable shots - at times.
But he still had a pretty decent career average from 3.

But on D - we're talking apples and walruses.
Trevor became a plus defender over his career - I just don't see Joe ever even being average.
Which is fine - if he's a microwave scorer and 2nd PG coming in off the bench for 15-20-25 mins a game.
 

Jeremy L.

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I'm going to say this - I'm a HUGE supporter of JG3, we all are (most of us). I wanted him starting last year when Frank was playing terribly and Joe played extremely well and really helped our team, especially with Eli as the focal point of the offense. That being said, he's hurting us being out on the floor. We took the lead at 65-62 I believe, momentum in our favor, and he comes down and pulls up a three which was extremely forced. RU comes back down and he fouls the shot and before you know it, RU goes on a 17-3 run.

Joe can be a great player and he's a must-have in our lineup when he's knocking down shots like we have seen him do many times. But right now, he's not providing that spark. We have a great point guard in Kadary who should be bringing the ball up and setting everyone else up. Joe should still see the floor in an off-ball guard role and split time with Buddy.

We all want Joe to succeed and we want him out of this slump. There's a big difference between shooting your way out of a slump and straight up taking your team out of games. You have to know when to take your shots, and he currently isn't aware of when to take them.
 

oTTo113445

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Transition could be a bit better for Buddy than Girard, although maybe a step slower, h'es taller, and can fake the three and pass over the D to Guerrier, Dolezaj, and Griff who should be more rested to run-outs than last year. Plus two forwards who can hit the trailing 3 with Guerrier and Newton next to Griff as opposed to one, forces an extra rotation. A Little give and go to Kadary. Buddy's ability to slow down the fast break for a quick floor look is a big positive.

I see Girard usually going all the way to the rim and if he doesn't have a good chance, to turn in the lane and find the kickout or dump pass/lob like a true point. Totally different players in transition.
 
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eatmatsroe

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the thing about cooney was that he was a very inconsistent and awful shooter most of the time. everyone knew how bad it was. you just knew when he shot most of the time it wasn't going to go in.

a least with joe it did go in for he most part freshman year. and with the poor start this year we're at the "hope in goes in". not the write him off "he sux" and it's not going to go in.
 

OttoinGrotto

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721Comstock

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the thing about cooney was that he was a very inconsistent and awful shooter most of the time. everyone knew how bad it was. you just knew when he shot most of the time it wasn't going to go in.

a least with joe it did go in for he most part freshman year. and with the poor start this year we're at the "hope in goes in". not the write him off "he sux" and it's not going to go in.

Um, yeah, you make great points, except for the fact that they are 100% WRONG.



Joe's career 3pt % was lower than Trevor's thru last year, and is now MUCH lower.

At least with Trevor, he wasn't completely useless on D.
 

MSOrange

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Um, yeah, you make great points, except for the fact that they are 100% WRONG.



Joe's career 3pt % was lower than Trevor's thru last year, and is now MUCH lower.

At least with Trevor, he wasn't completely useless on D.

Yes I hate to pile on, but I would not characterize this as even close to an accurate statement:

a least with joe it did go in for the most part freshman year.
 

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