Keeping up with the guards

SWC75

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I was listening to a radio show discussing the transfer portal and i wondered how the three guards who bolted last season are faring.

Jalen Carey has started 3 of 23 games for a 10-15 Rhode Island team. He's playing 16 minutes a game, averaging 4.3 points per game. He's played 368 minutes the rough equivalent of 10 games for the type of player we had hoped we were getting. On that basis, he's averaging 10 points, an impressive 6 rebounds but 1 assist and 4 turnovers. he's 0 for 7 from three point range but is hitting a credible 46% of his two pointers but just 57% of his free throws. he was never a point guard and not an ACC-level player at any position.
Jalen Carey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com)

Brycen Goodine hasn't started a game for a 13-12 Providence team. He's only played in 15 of their 25 games. and averaged 7.5 minutes in those games. He averaged 8.7 minutes for us last year. Actually he played 200 minutes last year and scored 44 points, 24 rebounds, 16 assists, 11 teals and 17 turnovers. This year he's payed 112 minutes with 12 rebs, 7 assists, 7 steals and 10 turnovers. Again, not really a point guard and not really an ACC player.
Brycen Goodine College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com)

Howard Washington doesn't appear to have played at all for South Alabama, who is 17-11. Per this article, he opted out of the season:
Former Syracuse player Howard Washington opts out of 2020-21 season at South Alabama - syracuse.com

The three guys we have are better than the three guys we lost.
 
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Orangezoo

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It's interesting that even in a different role Carey still struggled. He is an exceptional athlete but the game is too fast for him at this level as a ball handler. He should have been 6-9 a defensive/rebounding specialist.

Goodine surprised me. When I saw him this year he didn't look in the greatest shape nor did he look all that interested in being on the court. In some ways he appeared to have regressed to me from the flashes we saw last year. It's a shame. I'm not even sure at this point he would do much at a mid major unless maybe he plays a role like what Carey is playing.

Of all 3 Washington may have the best final say once he gets on the court next year.
 

MikeSU02

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Much like the conversation about Sid, all this does is make me realize just where we stand, talent-wise across the board. And, in general, how much we need to get better recruiting-wise.

Especially with no guards coming for next year. At least not yet.
 

ORRange

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I posted about their struggles and was told it was too early in the season to draw any conclusions. Well, they just weren't good enough here and the change of scenery hasn't helped. Now all the folks that harped that they never got a fair shake from JB can eat crow.
 

Zelda Zonk

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This makes me sad.
I pretty much always hope a kid does well, even when they leave us. If they do it the right way.

This kind of thing always makes me wonder about the psychology aspect. These guys had talent and performance to impress our coaches while in high school. Somewhere along the way, either it was exposed that the staff whiffed and didn't know what they were seeing, or that they expected a progression that just didn't happen, or that the kids just got 'messed up' somewhere. I know how easy it is, just in my lame recreational playing, to get messed up in the head, and have it affect your performance. I can't imagine that on an exponentially larger scale, with actual 'career-related' pressures, and dealing with coaches and their expectations. I can imagine that a player can just 'crash' when seeds of doubt grow and are inadvertently cultivated.
 

Cuse#1

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I was listening to a radio show discussing the transfer portal and i wondered how the three guards who bolted last season are faring.

Jalen Carey has started 3 of 23 games for a 10-15 Rhode Island team. He's playing 16 minutes a game, averaging 4.3 points per game. He's played 368 minutes the rough equivalent of 10 games for the type of player we had hoped we were getting. On that basis, he's averaging 10 points, an impressive 6 rebounds but 1 assist and 4 turnovers. he's 0 for 7 from three point range but is hitting a credible 46% of his two pointers but just 57% of his free throws. he was never a point guard and not an ACC-level player at any position.
Jalen Carey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com)

Brycen Goodine hasn't started a game for a 13-12 Providence team. He's only played in 15 of their 25 games. and averaged 7.5 minutes in those games. He averaged 8.7 minutes for us last year. Actually he played 200 minutes last year and scored 44 points, 24 rebounds, 16 assists, 11 teals and 17 turnovers. This year he's payed 112 minutes with 12 rebs, 7 assists, 7 steals and 10 turnovers. Again, not really a point guard and not really an ACC player.
Brycen Goodine College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com)

Howard Washington doesn't appear to have played at all for South Alabama, who is 17-11. Per this article, he opted out of the season:
Former Syracuse player Howard Washington opts out of 2020-21 season at South Alabama - syracuse.com

The three guys we have are better than the three guys we lost.
looks like coach was exactly right with these guys and maybe some of these kids will see not to just up and transfer at the first sign of adversity
 
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Zelda Zonk

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looks like coach was exactly right with these guys and maybe some of these kids will see not to just up and transfer at the first sign of adversity
If he was "exactly right," maybe he wouldn't have recruited them and occupied roster space with them and wasted resources on them. Maybe it's more accurate to say that he was wrong about them before being right about them. But, you're also suggesting that they would have had better careers if they had just stuck it out with Syracuse? Would we be better if we had either Brycen or Jalen... and no Kadary?
 

Cuse#1

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lol he probaly was wrong, trust me i can see things in my opinion every game that he should do different. He is no messiah lol. I respect boehiem of course, the guys a legend at syracuse, i just wish he wasnt so damn stubborn.
In terms of the transfer comment i wassnt being specific. Just in general of all teams and the amount of transfes
 

rhcuse

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Goodine was in a tough spot transferring in behind two entrenched juniors Reeves and Duke who were expected to (and did) monopolize the guard minutes. God help him if they both come back for a Covid reboot year in 2022/23 although Duke May have draft expectations now.

Both guys are bigger and more physical than Goodine who seems more a finesse player. Both already had 2 years under Cooley playing 20+ - 30+ minutes/game.

I really doubt Goodine was expected to contribute this year and it is too soon to label him a bust when he has three years left. He was never going to outplay those guys this year.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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If he was "exactly right," maybe he wouldn't have recruited them and occupied roster space with them and wasted resources on them. Maybe it's more accurate to say that he was wrong about them before being right about them. But, you're also suggesting that they would have had better careers if they had just stuck it out with Syracuse? Would we be better if we had either Brycen or Jalen... and no Kadary?
Sometimes you take who you can get
 

Alsacs

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I like SWC but if we have people(not SWC) saying Jesse Edwards development was stunted because he was in Europe and couldn’t practice how would Goodine or Carey be able to practice with their new teams and systems due to Covid?

Why does that excuse for Edwards work but not for guys transferring to new systems unlike Edwards?

Also Washington opted out for the season. He didn’t play because of Covid.

The program did not want to lose Goodine last year. GMac practically begged him to reconsider and stay. Goodine left because he saw the playing time he would get on the wall. He wasn’t going to get the minutes on the court to develop.

This season he never got a chance to practice before it began because he finished his academic year last year here and Covid had shut things down by then.

I like SWC and don’t think his post has any intent but to give information.
The people who want to dunk on these kids and say see they didn’t produce well guess what we offered each and they came here.

If they all suck then our coaches are terrible at evaluating talent and when we don’t have deep teams this is why.
 
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MikeSU02

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I like SWC but if we have people(not SWC) saying Jesse Edwards development was stunted because he was in Europe and couldn’t practice how would Goodine or Carey be able to practice with their new teams and systems due to Covid?

Why does that excuse for Edwards work but not for guys transferring to new systems unlike Edwards?

Also Washington opted out for the season. He didn’t play because of Covid.

The program did not want to lose Goodine last year. GMac practically begged him to reconsider and stay. Goodine left because he saw the playing time he would get on the wall. He wasn’t going to get the minutes on the court to develop.

This season he never got a chance to practice before it began because he finished his academic year last year here and Covid had shut things down by then.

I like SWC and don’t think his post has any intent but to give information.
The people who want to dunk on these kids and say see they didn’t produce well guess what we offered each and they came here.

If they all suck then our coaches are terrible at evaluating talent and when we don’t have deep teams this is why.

Yeah, I agree with your point about the motivation for SWC to post this, to be informative.

But I read this and it's nothing but an indictment on our coaches.
 

two3zone

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Goodine was in a tough spot transferring in behind two entrenched juniors Reeves and Duke who were expected to (and did) monopolize the guard minutes. God help him if they both come back for a Covid reboot year in 2022/23 although Duke May have draft expectations now.

Both guys are bigger and more physical than Goodine who seems more a finesse player. Both already had 2 years under Cooley playing 20+ - 30+ minutes/game.

I really doubt Goodine was expected to contribute this year and it is too soon to label him a bust when he has three years left. He was never going to outplay those guys this year.
Exactly, and he knew he was never going to play here when Joe took the spot from Carey, he literally would’ve played 5 minimum a game or less until Buddy graduated. People don’t seem to get that.
 

SBU72

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I was listening to a radio show discussing the transfer portal and i wondered how the three guards who bolted last season are faring.

Jalen Carey has started 3 of 23 games for a 10-15 Rhode Island team. He's playing 16 minutes a game, averaging 4.3 points per game. He's played 368 minutes the rough equivalent of 10 games for the type of player we had hoped we were getting. On that basis, he's averaging 10 points, an impressive 6 rebounds but 1 assist and 4 turnovers. he's 0 for 7 from three point range but is hitting a credible 46% of his two pointers but just 57% of his free throws. he was never a point guard and not an ACC-level player at any position.
Jalen Carey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com)

Brycen Goodine hasn't started a game for a 13-12 Providence team. He's only played in 15 of their 25 games. and averaged 7.5 minutes in those games. He averaged 8.7 minutes for us last year. Actually he played 200 minutes last year and scored 44 points, 24 rebounds, 16 assists, 11 teals and 17 turnovers. This year he's payed 112 minutes with 12 rebs, 7 assists, 7 steals and 10 turnovers. Again, not really a point guard and not really an ACC player.
Brycen Goodine College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com (sports-reference.com)

Howard Washington doesn't appear to have played at all for South Alabama, who is 17-11. Per this article, he opted out of the season:
Former Syracuse player Howard Washington opts out of 2020-21 season at South Alabama - syracuse.com

The three guys we have are better than the three guys we lost.
How dare you point out that their leaving wasn't as bad for the program as people were screaming (wink wink). Now the focus is how badly JB (and assistants) misjudged them in the first place

"Goodine was in a tough spot transferring in behind two entrenched juniors Reeves and Duke who were expected to (and did) monopolize the guard minutes. God help him if they both come back for a Covid reboot year in 2022/23 although Duke May have draft expectations now."
Then why did he choose to go there? Sit behind a couple of guys and still risk being recruited over. If you transfer for playing time I'd think you better be sure you'll get playing time.
 

nyucuse

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Exactly, and he knew he was never going to play here when Joe took the spot from Carey, he literally would’ve played 5 minimum a game or less until Buddy graduated. People don’t seem to get that.

And that is different how at Providence? He is playing less there than here. Fine if he wanted to leave for that reason, I get it. But he made a bad decision by going to the Friars it seems.
 

gmoney44

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I'd enjoy revisiting some of this board's hysteria surrounding Goodine's departure from last Spring.

Actually no I wouldn't.

Or... swing over to the football side of the house and check out a similar hysteria in the Jawhar Jordan thread.
 

SBU72

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I like SWC but if we have people(not SWC) saying Jesse Edwards development was stunted because he was in Europe and couldn’t practice how would Goodine or Carey be able to practice with their new teams and systems due to Covid?

Why does that excuse for Edwards work but not for guys transferring to new systems unlike Edwards?

Also Washington opted out for the season. He didn’t play because of Covid.

The program did not want to lose Goodine last year. GMac practically begged him to reconsider and stay. Goodine left because he saw the playing time he would get on the wall. He wasn’t going to get the minutes on the court to develop.

This season he never got a chance to practice before it began because he finished his academic year last year here and Covid had shut things down by then.

I like SWC and don’t think his post has any intent but to give information.
The people who want to dunk on these kids and say see they didn’t produce well guess what we offered each and they came here.

If they all suck then our coaches are terrible at evaluating talent and when we don’t have deep teams this is why.
Not exactly the same. First of all, neither guy got stuck in Europe all summer. And did either miss practice time for 1 or 2 two week pauses. That's as much of 4 weeks additional practice time.
 
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Alsacs

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Not exactly the same. First of all, neither guy got stuck in Europe all summer. And did either miss practice time for 1 or 2 two week pauses. That's as much of 4 weeks additional practice time.
Are you freaking seriously pushing back on the fact these kids transferred in a pandemic and didn’t get a real off-season with their new teams learning a new system?

Goodine didn’t even know he was eligible to play till October 28 a couple of week before the season began.

Edwards didn’t have to learn a new system from last year like Goodine and Carey had too. Plus unless I am unaware their are gyms in Netherlands for Edwards to stay in shape at.

Why are you defending the wall on everything. The HC recruited these kids and brought them in. If they suck then it’s an indictment on him. Defend that while you are on a roll.
 
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