Lack of an inside presence

jgeorge322

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Once again is the issue. Weve had great offenses in the past. Its not like JBs stuff suddenly doesnt work after 40 years. But were so one dimensional due to lack of a center. You just have to guard us on the permiter. We have two realistic chances to be good this year:

1. our guys suddenly become able to drive past people
2. either sidibe or edwards suddenly becomes an offensive threat

otherwise, were going to win around 20 w one or two big upsets that probably barely get us in the tourney.
 

RF2044

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Man, I don't know. College basketball is so guard driven, that I think a far more important factor is the seeming lack of lead guard play. I say "seeming," because I allow for the possibility that Carey, Girard, and Goodine struggling so much against the defending national champs was just a matter of poor timing with roles so unsettled in the first game of the year. I also thing it was an aberration that shots didn't drop for Buddy and others that will probably go down when the team isn't struggling so systemically to score like they did Wednesday, against a truly elite defensive team.

It would be great to have an inside player that the ball could go inside to. Maybe as the season unfolds Sidibe will prove to be that, maybe Guerrier. But it seems like a much bigger issue is that none of our guards seem capable of doing much to create offense -- for themselves or others.

My opinion only -- but that seems to be the thing that could potentially hold this team back more than lack of an inside presence.
 

OrangeFoo

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Man, I don't know. College basketball is so guard driven, that I think a far more important factor is the seeming lack of lead guard play. I say "seeming," because I allow for the possibility that Carey, Girard, and Goodine struggling so much against the defending national champs was just a matter of poor timing with roles so unsettled in the first game of the year. I also thing it was an aberration that shots didn't drop for Buddy and others that will probably go down when the team isn't struggling so systemically to score like they did Wednesday, against a truly elite defensive team.

It would be great to have an inside player that the ball could go inside to. Maybe as the season unfolds Sidibe will prove to be that, maybe Guerrier. But it seems like a much bigger issue is that none of our guards seem capable of doing much to create offense -- for themselves or others.

My opinion only -- but that seems to be the thing that could potentially hold this team back more than lack of an inside presence.
I think in Goodine and Girard we have the raw talent to have good lead guards. To your point, playing against the best defensive team in the ACC in their first game ever of college hoops is not a recipe for success. Here are changes and development I hope to see:
- Girard and Goodine are given the opportunity to get up to speed and between Girard, Goodine and Buddy we have a solid 3 guard rotation. I wish Carey the best, but so far I just don't see it. If anything I see a dude with the mentality of a an old school three who's only job was to drive to the hoop... but he has the body of a guard. Ideally we move Carey off the ball where he can use his athletic talents but Buddy is a better shooter and ball handler and Hughes is a better player period.
- JB force feeds minutes to JBA and Edwards. We will not win many games if Marek is our primary option at the 5. That only worked, sort of, the last two years because we had a very physical Brissett at the 4 to compensate for Marek's lack of physical presence. I don't see that in Guerrier yet.
- Hughes stops trying to play hero ball... Someone needs to tell him he's not Melo or for that matter even Tyus.
- Guerrier can take back the starting spot at the 4 from Marek. This kid seems to have all the talent in the world but he just drifts in the game and makes zero impact. I said it after the exhibitions and I'll say it again... Guerrier X factor. If he steps up we can move Marek back to the bench or more likely to the 5.

I think we are closer to a good team than to a bad time. I'm actually looking forward to the pre-conference games to see how these guys grow and learn. The raw talent on this team is there, we just need to give it some time.
-
 

kcsu

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Its about making a commitment to get the ball into the paint. Edwards is coordinated and has a nice shot. Sid has flashed ability to post up and score. JB has to make a concentrated effort to game plan and scheme post play. It just doesn't happen organically. It has to be X & O'd.
 

Cusefan0307

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Its about making a commitment to get the ball into the paint. Edwards is coordinated and has a nice shot. Sid has flashed ability to post up and score. JB has to make a concentrated effort to game plan and scheme post play. It just doesn't happen organically. It has to be X & O'd.
Sid missed a wide open layup the other night. He isn’t good. In fact I think he’s regressed. Edwards weighs as much as I do and I’m 6’2”.
 

tbonezone

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you gotta work with what you got. not stick players into a system that don't work for them. adapt your system to your strengths. inside or out. power or finesse. yes JB that means change. that's what coaches do.
 

kcsu

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Sid missed a wide open layup the other night. He isn’t good. In fact I think he’s regressed. Edwards weighs as much as I do and I’m 6’2”.
They both have Skills that could be utilized. Edwards has to be guarded as he can knock down 10-15 footers. Sid if healthy needs confidence. He has good hands and footwork. Its called coaching. Personally i think our spacing and ISO off the screen is a piss poor approach for the talent on the roster.
We need to be setting multiple off ball screens. There has to be constant movement. I want to see Coon Dog like madness again, back door cuts, baseline screens, flash Edwards to the line... MOVE PEOPLE MOVE BALL F. I. N DONT STAND AROUND. Its not hard it called coaching. Dont just roll the ball out set half arsed screens 30 feet away from the basket and expect to beat anyone.
you gotta work with what you got. not stick players into a system that don't work for them. adapt your system to your strengths. inside or out. power or finesse. yes JB that means change. that's what coaches do.
Spot on!
 

jgeorge322

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Man, I don't know. College basketball is so guard driven, that I think a far more important factor is the seeming lack of lead guard play. I say "seeming," because I allow for the possibility that Carey, Girard, and Goodine struggling so much against the defending national champs was just a matter of poor timing with roles so unsettled in the first game of the year. I also thing it was an aberration that shots didn't drop for Buddy and others that will probably go down when the team isn't struggling so systemically to score like they did Wednesday, against a truly elite defensive team.

It would be great to have an inside player that the ball could go inside to. Maybe as the season unfolds Sidibe will prove to be that, maybe Guerrier. But it seems like a much bigger issue is that none of our guards seem capable of doing much to create offense -- for themselves or others.

My opinion only -- but that seems to be the thing that could potentially hold this team back more than lack of an inside presence.
Pg would be number 2 on my list but i Think we have more talent there. We are so deficient on the inside compared to other teams, its staggering. I think it jams everything up.

with pg, im still hopeful carey can get the ball up and the team into sets, so long as jb doesnt destroy his confidence.
 

Ghost

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All of our bigs always seem to have terrible hands at least since Christmas was here. Sidibe, like Chukwu can’t seem to catch the ball.
Hey, Sidibe gets it done...we were his field goal away from being shut out for the first 12 minutes of the first half against UVA.

Everyone at that game will always owe him a tremendous debt of gratitude that they'll likely never recognize. That would have been a long stand and clap...especially at an opener when you don't have your stand and clap leg muscles built yet.
 

007

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Man, I don't know. College basketball is so guard driven, that I think a far more important factor is the seeming lack of lead guard play. I say "seeming," because I allow for the possibility that Carey, Girard, and Goodine struggling so much against the defending national champs was just a matter of poor timing with roles so unsettled in the first game of the year. I also thing it was an aberration that shots didn't drop for Buddy and others that will probably go down when the team isn't struggling so systemically to score like they did Wednesday, against a truly elite defensive team.

It would be great to have an inside player that the ball could go inside to. Maybe as the season unfolds Sidibe will prove to be that, maybe Guerrier. But it seems like a much bigger issue is that none of our guards seem capable of doing much to create offense -- for themselves or others.

My opinion only -- but that seems to be the thing that could potentially hold this team back more than lack of an inside presence.
You know my take - the primary issue this year is PG play. Of the 3 combo guards that we have, I kinda think that Girard will emerge as the best option to "play" PG. It might not be the best use of his skill set, but I think he can do it. I still need to see more of Goodine in game situations, but I am intrigue by his potential.

I am not down on Carey. I just think he is being asked to play a position that exposes the things he does least well. Carey needs to play in an uptempo, fast break offense and at a the front end of the press. He would look like a different player in that type of system. Stab in the dark here, but I would guess that JB is trying create that with Carey on the floor. I'm not sure if this team has the rebounding and mentality to consistently fastbreak. Not yet anyway.
 

RF2044

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You know my take - the primary issue this year is PG play. Of the 3 combo guards that we have, I kinda think that Girard will emerge as the best option to "play" PG. It might not be the best use of his skill set, but I think he can do it. I still need to see more of Goodine in game situations, but I am intrigue by his potential.

I am not down on Carey. I just think he is being asked to play a position that exposes the things he does least well. Carey needs to play in an uptempo, fast break offense and at a the front end of the press. He would look like a different player in that type of system. Stab in the dark here, but I would guess that JB is trying create that with Carey on the floor. I'm not sure if this team has the rebounding and mentality to consistently fastbreak. Not yet anyway.
Agreed.
 

OrangeFoo

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You know my take - the primary issue this year is PG play. Of the 3 combo guards that we have, I kinda think that Girard will emerge as the best option to "play" PG. It might not be the best use of his skill set, but I think he can do it. I still need to see more of Goodine in game situations, but I am intrigue by his potential.

I am not down on Carey. I just think he is being asked to play a position that exposes the things he does least well. Carey needs to play in an uptempo, fast break offense and at a the front end of the press. He would look like a different player in that type of system. Stab in the dark here, but I would guess that JB is trying create that with Carey on the floor. I'm not sure if this team has the rebounding and mentality to consistently fastbreak. Not yet anyway.
In order to play in an uptempo, fast break offense you kinda have to be good at dribbling. We had opportunities to run against UVA with Carey, but the problem is he kept meeting resistance as soon as he crossed half court. Instead of using a shimmy or misdirection and going past the defender like most good ball handlers, Carey turns his back to the defender or slows down to a stop because he is afraid he’ll get his pocket picked if he tried to go by his guy. Boom... fast break over.

This team demonstrated the desire to run off boards in the exhibitions but Carleton was a rude awakening for Carey. They pressured Carey 3/4 court and he STRUGGLED to get the team into its offense. Yes rrlbees I know it didn’t lead to turn overs but it definitely disrupted our offense.

My concern is Goodine has the same tendency to stop or turn around to protect the ball rather than going past someone. Girard does not have this tendency which is why the team looks a little better on offense with him at point.
 

007

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In order to play in an uptempo, fast break offense you kinda have to be good at dribbling. We had opportunities to run against UVA with Carey, but the problem is he kept meeting resistance as soon as he crossed half court. Instead of using a shimmy or misdirection and going past the defender like most good ball handlers, Carey turns his back to the defender or slows down to a stop because he is afraid he’ll get his pocket picked if he tried to go by his guy. Boom... fast break over.

This team demonstrated the desire to run off boards in the exhibitions but Carleton was a rude awakening for Carey. They pressured Carey 3/4 court and he STRUGGLED to get the team into its offense. Yes rrlbees I know it didn’t lead to turn overs but it definitely disrupted our offense.

My concern is Goodine has the same tendency to stop or turn around to protect the ball rather than going past someone. Girard does not have this tendency which is why the team looks a little better on offense with him at point.
I hear you. UVA is not going to allow most teams to run a traditional fast break because they will stop the ball well above the 3 point line. That doesn't mean the fast break is over. Most teams then go into a transition offense if the fast break is not there immediately. This is an extension of the fast break. Carey can usually get the ball up the floor in a hurry, that's goal one. The key is he has to receive the outlet pass as he is moving up court. You then have to get into the transition offense before the D is fully set if the fast break is not there.
 

RF2044

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In order to play in an uptempo, fast break offense you kinda have to be good at dribbling. We had opportunities to run against UVA with Carey, but the problem is he kept meeting resistance as soon as he crossed half court. Instead of using a shimmy or misdirection and going past the defender like most good ball handlers, Carey turns his back to the defender or slows down to a stop because he is afraid he’ll get his pocket picked if he tried to go by his guy. Boom... fast break over.

This team demonstrated the desire to run off boards in the exhibitions but Carleton was a rude awakening for Carey. They pressured Carey 3/4 court and he STRUGGLED to get the team into its offense. Yes rrlbees I know it didn’t lead to turn overs but it definitely disrupted our offense.

My concern is Goodine has the same tendency to stop or turn around to protect the ball rather than going past someone. Girard does not have this tendency which is why the team looks a little better on offense with him at point.
very good point. Our guards push them all, only to settle into the same half-court slot Fest weave had for the past several seasons. It would be different if some of them took it all the way to the 10, or create about the bounce for themselves or their teammates. But that doesn't happen. Good observation.
 

Briancuse

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I'm more worried about not having a pg I think Edwards and ajak can be serviceable. Most teams don't have great centers.
 

gmoney44

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It’s hard watching this board think Sid is going to magically have healthy knees or contribute anything because he had 3 good scoring games against garbage teams his freshmen year. Another is that our PG’s are going to suddenly learn to value the ball and find a jump shot.
 

kuethstheman

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It’s hard watching this board think Sid is going to magically have healthy knees or contribute anything because he had 3 good scoring games against garbage teams his freshmen year. Another is that our PG’s are going to suddenly learn to value the ball and find a jump shot.
I'm going to cling to that Pitt game that he showed he can score. I'm still waiting for the guards to get him the ball in position to score. If they do and he doesn't deliver, I'll admit I'm wrong. Until then, I'm willing to believe that Sidibe is just one more casualty of this offensive system.
 

jgeorge322

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I'm more worried about not having a pg I think Edwards and ajak can be serviceable. Most teams don't have great centers.
doesnt have to be a great center. We need a center or pf who gets buckets. We dont have that.
 
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cuseguy

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Sidibe can’t put the ball on the floor and has no back to the basket game. We need to recruit better centers. They’re generally projects.
 

rrlbees

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In order to play in an uptempo, fast break offense you kinda have to be good at dribbling. We had opportunities to run against UVA with Carey, but the problem is he kept meeting resistance as soon as he crossed half court. Instead of using a shimmy or misdirection and going past the defender like most good ball handlers, Carey turns his back to the defender or slows down to a stop because he is afraid he’ll get his pocket picked if he tried to go by his guy. Boom... fast break over.

This team demonstrated the desire to run off boards in the exhibitions but Carleton was a rude awakening for Carey. They pressured Carey 3/4 court and he STRUGGLED to get the team into its offense. Yes rrlbees I know it didn’t lead to turn overs but it definitely disrupted our offense.

My concern is Goodine has the same tendency to stop or turn around to protect the ball rather than going past someone. Girard does not have this tendency which is why the team looks a little better on offense with him at point.
don’t know why I didn’t get an alert that you tagged me in this post. Anyways, I relooked are some of the game. I didn’t see anyone turn around to protect the ball. I did see a few times where the guard turned kinda sideways to protect the ball. That included Girard.
 

SmilinBob

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I'm hoping that if the shots fall it opens the lane for Sid/QG because if the shots don't fall there is no penetration or spacing whatsoever. I'd like to see a concentrated effort to get Sid the ball vs Colgate and space out so he can work.

As for Carey, he's a confidence kid and needs to be in the flow of the game and can't be looking over his shoulder. Imo...that is not going to happen at SU for him.
 

OrangeZeus

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We've been going 4 on 5 on the offensive end every year since Rakeem Christmas's senior season. Couple that with barely any movement from our players without the ball and very little dribble penetration from our guards who seem to be OK with settling for long jumpers and it's really no wonder we've seen such bad offense the last few years. We haven't seen a real offense run since 2013-14 with Tyler Ennis at the point.

I can understand to some extent the lack of players moving without the ball when you are down scholarships and you have to play guys 40mpg. But there's really no excuse for that anymore. I think that's been the biggest issue the last 5 years on the offensive end. The Virginia game wasn't a great start on that front but hopefully they'll find their rhythm as the season goes on.
 

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