Last Night's Loss is 99% on FH...

[Forza Azzurri]

and 1% on JB.

JB said back in November that TB was not a point guard and that playing TB at the 1 was NOT a recipe for success.

He reiterated after the first Duke game that TB could play the point and be effective for a few minutes here and there but that it was not a long-term solution.

Last night was simply a return to UConn and Oregon.

TB at the point, BB, instead of JC, at the 2. It was a miserable failure back in November. Why did anyone think that it would be different last night? Because TB had had some success running the point against Duke for a few minutes and in subsequent games?

TB wasn't really running the point. Cassius Winston from MSU runs the point.

TB running the point means that TB gets the ball and goes to the rack or pulls up for the J every time...

That is not playing the point. People can call it playing the 1, but it is not playing the point.

The point gets everyone else involved. The point gets guys the ball in the right spots where guys can do damage on the offensive end. TB has zero abilty to do that. Cassius Winston does it to perfection.

So did Tyler Ennis and MCW and Scoop and Billy Edelin and Jason Hart and Z and Autry and Stevie Thompson (NOT!!! - forced to play out of position - just like TB) and Sherm and Pearl and Waldron and Eddie Moss. THEY were point guards..

TB was playing the 1 in a 2's clothing.

JB completely mismanged the guards' minutes last night and it likely cost us our season but, in Carey's 3 minutes of play he managed to penetrate way too deep the first time he got the opportunity and picked up a charge. What was JB supposed to do? Leave the TO machine out there? JC had been miserable throughout ACC play. That is the 1% on JB. C'mon. Wake the PH up.

I hate that I am posting this because I really hate it when posters go after coaches and players but for our senior PG to do something that risked his ability to play in the tourney is being as impossibly stupid as it gets.

We have had a lot of important players miss the tourney, miss tourney games or be hampered by illness or injury:
Marty Headd - fractured wrist in 1981 right before Big East tourney and missed NCAA tournament,
Sherman Douglas - sick in 88 vs Rhode Island,
DC back injury in 89 vs Illinois,
The Wright brothers (not really brothers) in 2005 suspended for Vermont game;
Onuaku - leg injury vs G'town in 2010 Big East tourney and missed NCAA tourney;
2012 - Fab Melo - suspended during Big East tourney and missed NCAA tournament - he should never have been in college to begin with - spent his entire college off the court career at Chuck's and his academic "tutor" wrote his papers for him...

Injuries and illnesses happen and are uncontrollable. Fab Melo was brutally disappointing as he never should have been in college and was only a sophomore but this one is worse. Frank is a SENIOR LEADER!

The Wright Brothers were not important players but Frank was a senior starter...just sooooooo disappointing and it really was, unfortunately, a very fitting ending for a player who had a very, very, very checkered career on the hill.

If you are pinning this loss on JB and not on FH then you don't know what the PH you are talking about. This loss was 99% on FH

 

[Millhouse]

we really have a problem finding point guards. what the zone giveths, the zone takeths away. that high floor the zone gives us comes with a tradeoff - we can't find tall guards who can handle and shoot. they might be able to do two of the three but not all three

Carey, I mean, I don't know what to say about the guy. He plays point like bronco nagurski but a hundred pounds lighter. All we needed was a few minutes that weren't terrible.

 

[Trueblue25]

Only 1% on JB? Mind you jb’s the guy who recruited the 2 to play the 1 and not have depth built up 4 years later.

 

[longislandcuse]

This excuse flies to explain away a loss to Gonzaga.

Not so much to Baylor, in the fashion in which it happened.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

we really have a problem finding point guards.

How can you possibly say that?

Eddie Moss
Gene Waldron
Pearl
Sherm
No PG in 1990 - should have been Kenny Anderson who lead GT to final four and likely cost us at least a chance to beat UNLV for all the marbles
Autry
Z
Hart
Griffen
Edelin - cut short
Josh Wrght - Bust
Jonny Flynn
Scoop
MCW
Ennis
Kaleb Joseph - bust

Between 1976 and 2015, we had ONE year without a true point guard - 1990.

And if Bobby Cremins doesn't give the Anderson family a wad of cash, we DO have qa true point guard and are likely playing UNLV that year for the NC (Stevie, DC, Billy, LeRon Ellis, Dave Johnson - are you kdding me with that level of talent AND Kenny Anderson running the point) instead of having Tony, 3-16, Scott (he was John Starks against Houston before anyone knew who John Starks was) shoot us out of the gym against Minnesota.

So, between 1976 and 2015, we really should have had had ZERO years without a true point guard. 40 years - a true point GUARD EVERY FRICKIN YEAR!!!!!

It is only when Ennis decided to leave three years early and Jospeh was a complete BUST that we ended up in a situation in 2015-16 where we had our first season, other than 89-90 under JB in his 40 year coaching career where we did not have a true point guard. And KJ was a true point guard, he was just downright awful.

So, it has really only been the last three years where we have not had a true point guard, and that is due to recruiting misses (KJ being awful and putting all our marbles in Quade Green)

This is typical absolutely terrible posting. Taking a really small sample size, albeit a very recent small sample size, and extrapolating it over JB's entire career.

You, of all people, being a self-professed stats geek should know better.

Most of the rest of the board members, without a math or stats background, who love to do the same thing and take a really small sample size and have it say something meaningful about JB's 40+ year coaching career get more of a pass. As Dino Babers likes to say, "They did not know". You do.

 

[phil77]

100% on JB. He recruited FH. Kept FH around when others wanted him gone. JB is responsible for the players on the roster. When the players on the roster fail then JB fails.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Only 1% on JB? Mind you jb’s the guy who recruited the 2 to play the 1 and not have depth built up 4 years later.

Yeah, cause recruiting misses over the last four years, and not FH's decision to get into the Cannabis business right before the tournament caused last night's loss.

Ok, sparky. You keep posting.

 

[OrangeDW]

Only 1% on JB? Mind you jb’s the guy who recruited the 2 to play the 1 and not have depth built up 4 years later.

We had 5 guards on the roster which is standard depth.

One got suspended right before the tournament and another tore his ACL and had a stroke.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

We had 5 guards on the roster which is standard depth.

One got suspended right before the tournament and another tore his ACL and had a stroke.

Thank you, Jesus.

At least one other poster gets it. Thank you, DW...

 

[Trueblue25]

Yeah, cause recruiting misses over the last four years, and not FH's decision to get into the Cannabis business right before the tournament caused last night's loss.

Ok, sparky. You keep posting.

You’re right, Frank phoned in at half time and told the team “Hey, whatever you’re doing to defend the perimeter keep it up but do less”.

 

[Trueblue25]

We had 5 guards on the roster which is standard depth.

One got suspended right before the tournament and another tore his ACL and had a stroke.

Ones a 4 star recruit whos capable of playing minutes when the alternatives not hitting shots and give up 20+ points.

 

[Day2]

This excuse flies to explain away a loss to Gonzaga.

Not so much to Baylor, in the fashion in which it happened.

Eric called it yesterday. He wondered what would happen if Buddy had a bad game, Battle wasn't healthy, Carey was Carey, and the altitude became a factor. The worst case scenario came to fruition. That's on Frank.

The game was a toss-up before Frank was suspended. In spite of everything, it was still a one possession game with three minutes left.

 

[Trueblue25]

We all watched this same game weeks ago in the dome vs UVA. Difference was we hit some more threes last night. The top of the zone got bombarded. Frank’s certainly at least half the blame but lets not keep our heads in the sand.

 

[longislandcuse]

Eric called it yesterday. He wondered what would happen if Buddy had a bad game, Battle wasn't healthy, Carey was Carey, and the altitude became a factor. The worst case scenario came to fruition. That's on Frank.

The game was a toss-up before Frank was suspended. In spite of everything, it was still a one possession game with three minutes left.

I’ve talked with friends (UNC & Duke fans) this morning and every single one of them mentioned “I know y’all are a zone team but you don’t have any other defense?”

Even without Frank, we were pretty evenly matched. Drew had a secondary defense. We did not. To me, that was the difference.

Give us Drew, and them Boeheim, and we win. They weren’t stopping us in a zone either...but they stopped playing zone, like any coach sans JB would.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Eric called it yesterday. He wondered what would happen if Buddy had a bad game, Battle wasn't healthy, Carey was Carey, and the altitude became a factor. The worst case scenario came to fruition. That's on Frank.

The game was a toss-up before Frank was suspended. In spite of everything, it was still a one possession game with three minutes left.

You get it also. We are up to three. Thanks for the assist.

 

[OrangeDW]

Ones a 4 star recruit whos capable of playing minutes when the alternatives not hitting shots and give up 20+ points.

Anybody is capable of playing minutes.

Not quality minutes though.

He did absolutely nothing to show he should be out there IMO.

His turnover rates are insane. Combine that with his lack of being a 3 point threat...that’s an offense killer.

Buddy at least doesn’t turn the ball over and stretches the defense because they know he can bury one at any time so they play him tight.

 

[Trueblue25]

Anybody is capable of playing minutes.

Not quality minutes though.

He did absolutely nothing to show he should be out there IMO.

His turnover rates are insane. Combine that with his lack of being a 3 point threat...that’s an offense killer.

Buddy at least doesn’t turn the ball over and stretches the defense because they know he can bury one at any time so they play him tight.

Ok then, settle for the guy who’s giving up the open zone forced threes because the alternative will turn the ball over. I get that.

Why not adjust defensively when the zone is no longer effective? We gave up, what, 16 threes?

 

[Shark58]

lol at anyone calling Stevie Thompson or Kaleb a "true" pg

 

[Day2]

I’ve talked with friends (UNC & Duke fans) this morning and every single one of them mentioned “I know y’all are a zone team but you don’t have any other defense?”

Even without Frank, we were pretty evenly matched. Drew had a secondary defense. We did not. To me, that was the difference.

Give us Drew, and them Boeheim, and we win. That weren’t stopping us either in a zone...but they stopped playing zone, like any coach sans JB would.

I don't give a damn what your friends say, especially if they're UNC or Duke fans.

Our players were gassed playing zone and a few minutes of trunk monkey. They were not going to have the energy to play man. Baylor had more depth. Mason went out and they still made plays. We didn't have that luxury. Not with our depth and not with that altitude.

And yet, it was a three-point game with three minutes left. Mason missed a shot and Battle gave up on the rebound.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

lol at anyone calling Stevie Thompson or Kaleb a "true" pg

Who called Stevie a true point Guard?

I said he was forced into playing it because Anderson took a bag from Cremins and headed to Atlanta...And Kaleb was recruited as a true point guard.

 

[Day2]

Ok then, settle for the guy who’s giving up the open zone forced threes because the alternative will turn the ball over. I get that.

Why not adjust defensively when the zone is no longer effective? We gave up, what, 16 threes?

Carey gives up the same threes. He's not a better defender, he's just more athletic.

 

[longislandcuse]

I don't give a damn what your friends say, especially if they're UNC or Duke fans.

Our players were gassed playing zone and a few minutes of trunk monkey. They were not going to have the energy to play man. Baylor had more depth. Mason went out and they still made plays. We didn't have that luxury. Not with our depth and not with that altitude.

And yet, it was a three-point game with three minutes left. Mason missed a shot and Battle gave up on the rebound.

Our players were gassed because our coach refused to develop a bench, and the little bit of bench he had (Carey), he refused to play.

We also could’ve token pressed to disrupt rhythm. Doesn’t take much energy to do that throughout the game. Man to Man for a couple possessions here and there does not zap your energy to irreversible levels.

I really thought after this loss, to a mediocre Baylor, giving up 16 threes would leave the Boeheim apologist crowd without excuses. ...But y’all have outdone yourselves. Frank Howard, who was trashed all year by some of these same posters, and “altitude” is now the reason. Ok, got it.

 

[Trueblue25]

Carey gives up the same threes. He's not a better defender, he's just more athletic.

When in, this season, Carey’s visibly been the better defender. Quicker and more athletic. Buddy earned more playing time this season because of his ability to draw defenders to the perimeter and hit threes. Our problem wasn’t really scoring last night. We scored very well despite Buddy having arguably his poorest offensive game of the year. Hughes, Brissettt and Battle were each getting buckets. Our problem was Baylor saw our 1 trick pony and raised us 16 threes and we had no answer other than “there’s no way they can keep this up”.

 

[Trueblue25]

I will say though, Buddy saved us on multiple fast breaks committing smart fouls. He displayed basketball iq on a team bereft of it.

 

[Bayside44]

I’ve talked with friends (UNC & Duke fans) this morning and every single one of them mentioned “I know y’all are a zone team but you don’t have any other defense?”

Even without Frank, we were pretty evenly matched. Drew had a secondary defense. We did not. To me, that was the difference.

Give us Drew, and them Boeheim, and we win. They weren’t stopping us in a zone either...but they stopped playing zone, like any coach sans JB would.

Your Duke friends didn't say y'all.

We had 69 points off both their defenses, that wasn't the problem. Buddy and Carey should be in a game like that a combined 10 minutes tops.