Let’s Do a Dive Into the Stats

sutomcat

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We are 8 games into what appears to be a 17 game conference schedule. That assumes JB is right when he said he does not expect any of the 3 conference games that were postponed will be made up. I would think there is a good chance we will lost at least one more conference game due to COVID. If so, we are exactly at the mid point in conference play.

Thought it would be a good time to look at statistics again, this time focusing on stats for conference play only.


Some observations:

Alan Griffin isn’t getting a lot of credit but his numbers to date are pretty close to those Elijah Hughes put up last year.

These stats are for conference play only, for both players.

Elijah 36.6 MPG, 41.0 FG%, 29.7 3P%, 83.2 FT%, 18.6 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 2.4 TPG
Alan 32.3 MPG, 48.0 FG%, 40.0 3P%, 83.3 FT%, 16.6 PPG. 7.4 RPG, 1.3 APG, 1.6 SPG, 2.3 BPG, 3,9 TPG

Alan is holding up very well compared to Elijah in his first year at Syracuse. He is scoring very close to the what Elijah did, especially when you compare points per minute. He is shooting significantly better from the field and the 3 point circle, getting a lot more steals and blocks, but also turning it over more and getting less assists. He has also taken significantly less FTs per game, which is the primary reason Elijah has been able to outscore him despite much worse shooting numbers. I think Elijah was better at switching down low and rotating in the zone, though Alan is getting better as the season progresses. Alan gets a lot more rebounds and steals, which to my eyes makes them roughly equal defensively. We probably should be giving Alan more credit than he is getting. Maybe more playing time as well.

Some other things...

We are seeing an extraordinary competition regarding assists. As of today, JGIII is leading with 29, but Marek has 28 and Buddy has 27. Kadary has the most assists per minute and has 20 overall. If he gets more than the 18.0 minutes he has been averaging the rest of the season, he has a decent chance to catch everyone and lead the team. Pretty amazing to see 4 players all with a realistic chance to lead the team in assists. We could possibly have our center or shooting guard lead the team in assists. I think it speaks to how well the team passes the ball overall.

There is a similar close competition to lead the team in steals. Right now Alan leads with 13 but Buddy and Kadary have 12 and Marek has 11. Of course, if you look at it in terms of steal per minute, Kadary would win easily.

A center or power forward leads the team in blocks just about every year. I don’t remember someone playing another position ever leading the team in blocks. That is probably going to change this season. Alan has 18. Quincy is reasonably close with 13. After that, we have Marek with 4 and Kadary with 3. Marek might finish the conference season with less than a block a game. That might be a record for a Syracuse center and speaks to why our interior defense has been pretty suspect all season.

Alan leads the team in turnovers by a large margin with 23. JGIII has only 15 turnovers for the conference season in 2.8 MPG. That is pretty impressive.

Quincy dominates the rebounding landscape averting 8.5 RPG. Alan is doing surprisingly well with 7.4 RPG. Marek is only averaging 4.9 RPG. That is kind awful for a guy playing center averaging 35.9 MPG. Kadary is averaging 2.0 RPG in only 18 MPG. JGIII is not far behind. Not good when the PGs are that close to the starting center in rebounds per minute played.

Looking at personal fouls, no real surprise here. Quincy leads the team with 22. Marek is right behind its 21. Kadary is putting some impressive numbers up but has racked up 15 PFs despite only averaging 18 MPG. That needs to change.

As far as 3 point shooting goes, Alan is leading the team with a very solid 40%. JGIII is right behind him with 38.6%. Buddy is at 30.2%. To me, this indicates it might make sense to play Kadary at PG and give some minutes at SG to JGIII. As far as 3 point shots attempted per minute, JGIII leads the team, followed closely by Alan and Buddy.

JGIII and Buddy are really struggling shooting from the field. Joe is shooting 38.8% (yes, that is only .02% higher than he shoots from the 3 point circle). Buddy isn’t much better at 39.4%. Both are exceptionally poor at drawing fouls as well. Each has only 6 FTs for the entire season. It might be good to reduce the number of shots they take from the field. The production you want is just not there.

Marek is the best on the team at drawing fouls (based on FTs attempted anyway). He has 33 FTs. Quincy is not far behind with 25 FTs attempted. Alan is okay with 18 FTs. Kadary is okay here, not quite as good as Alan. He has 9 FTs in his 18 MPG.

No real surprises with the overall conclusion. Kadary needs to play more. Buddy is not very efficient and should play less. Our most efficient lineup is probably going to have Kadary at PG and JGIII at SG.
 

007

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JGIII and Buddy are really struggling shooting from the field. Joe is shooting 38.8% (yes, that is only .02% higher than he shoots from the 3 point circle). Buddy isn’t much better at 39.4%. Both are exceptionally poor at drawing fouls as well. Each has only 6 FTs for the entire season. It might be good to reduce the number of shots they take from the field. The production you want is just not there.
Thank you for taking the time to post those stats and analyze the trends.

Hopefully, you don't get tagged as a "hater" with the paragraph above. I agree the production and efficiency for Buddy and JG is simply "not there." I've been a fan for a long, long time. Rarely from what I can recall has the "eye test" lined up so obviously with the stats.

And yet, here we are. I hope JB can put the rationalizations aside and come to what seems to be an inevitable conclusion. I would hate to see the twilight of his career play out this way.

Free Kadary...
 

kcsu

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We are 8 games into what appears to be a 17 game conference schedule. That assumes JB is right when he said he does not expect any of the 3 conference games that were postponed will be made up. I would think there is a good chance we will lost at least one more conference game due to COVID. If so, we are exactly at the mid point in conference play.

Thought it would be a good time to look at statistics again, this time focusing on stats for conference play only.


Some observations:

Alan Griffin isn’t getting a lot of credit but his numbers to date are pretty close to those Elijah Hughes put up last year.

These stats are for conference play only, for both players.

Elijah 36.6 MPG, 41.0 FG%, 29.7 3P%, 83.2 FT%, 18.6 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 2.4 TPG
Alan 32.3 MPG, 48.0 FG%, 40.0 3P%, 83.3 FT%, 16.6 PPG. 7.4 RPG, 1.3 APG, 1.6 SPG, 2.3 BPG, 3,9 TPG

Alan is holding up very well compared to Elijah in his first year at Syracuse. He is scoring very close to the what Elijah did, especially when you compare points per minute. He is shooting significantly better from the field and the 3 point circle, getting a lot more steals and blocks, but also turning it over more and getting less assists. He has also taken significantly less FTs per game, which is the primary reason Elijah has been able to outscore him despite much worse shooting numbers. I think Elijah was better at switching down low and rotating in the zone, though Alan is getting better as the season progresses. Alan gets a lot more rebounds and steals, which to my eyes makes them roughly equal defensively. We probably should be giving Alan more credit than he is getting. Maybe more playing time as well.

Some other things...

We are seeing an extraordinary competition regarding assists. As of today, JGIII is leading with 29, but Marek has 28 and Buddy has 27. Kadary has the most assists per minute and has 20 overall. If he gets more than the 18.0 minutes he has been averaging the rest of the season, he has a decent chance to catch everyone and lead the team. Pretty amazing to see 4 players all with a realistic chance to lead the team in assists. We could possibly have our center or shooting guard lead the team in assists. I think it speaks to how well the team passes the ball overall.

There is a similar close competition to lead the team in steals. Right now Alan leads with 13 but Buddy and Kadary have 12 and Marek has 11. Of course, if you look at it in terms of steal per minute, Kadary would win easily.

A center or power forward leads the team in blocks just about every year. I don’t remember someone playing another position ever leading the team in blocks. That is probably going to change this season. Alan has 18. Quincy is reasonably close with 13. After that, we have Marek with 4 and Kadary with 3. Marek might finish the conference season with less than a block a game. That might be a record for a Syracuse center and speaks to why our interior defense has been pretty suspect all season.

Alan leads the team in turnovers by a large margin with 23. JGIII has only 15 turnovers for the conference season in 2.8 MPG. That is pretty impressive.

Quincy dominates the rebounding landscape averting 8.5 RPG. Alan is doing surprisingly well with 7.4 RPG. Marek is only averaging 4.9 RPG. That is kind awful for a guy playing center averaging 35.9 MPG. Kadary is averaging 2.0 RPG in only 18 MPG. JGIII is not far behind. Not good when the PGs are that close to the starting center in rebounds per minute played.

Looking at personal fouls, no real surprise here. Quincy leads the team with 22. Marek is right behind its 21. Kadary is putting some impressive numbers up but has racked up 15 PFs despite only averaging 18 MPG. That needs to change.

As far as 3 point shooting goes, Alan is leading the team with a very solid 40%. JGIII is right behind him with 38.6%. Buddy is at 30.2%. To me, this indicates it might make sense to play Kadary at PG and give some minutes at SG to JGIII. As far as 3 point shots attempted per minute, JGIII leads the team, followed closely by Alan and Buddy.

JGIII and Buddy are really struggling shooting from the field. Joe is shooting 38.8% (yes, that is only .02% higher than he shoots from the 3 point circle). Buddy isn’t much better at 39.4%. Both are exceptionally poor at drawing fouls as well. Each has only 6 FTs for the entire season. It might be good to reduce the number of shots they take from the field. The production you want is just not there.

Marek is the best on the team at drawing fouls (based on FTs attempted anyway). He has 33 FTs. Quincy is not far behind with 25 FTs attempted. Alan is okay with 18 FTs. Kadary is okay here, not quite as good as Alan. He has 9 FTs in his 18 MPG.

No real surprises with the overall conclusion. Kadary needs to play more. Buddy is not very efficient and should play less. Our most efficient lineup is probably going to have Kadary at PG and JGIII at SG.
Great post. Stats dont lie. Unfortunately none of this will matter.
 

SarasotaPaul

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Even a shallow dive could have led to the last paragraph’s conclusions.
A shallow dive is what too many are great at. But statistics do not ever tell the whole story. My statistics professor started us off with this little thought. Statistics don't, lie people do. Those who rely solely on statistics never tell the whole story and probably don't want to tell the whole story. Just thought some of you might want the input of a PHD professor there. Kadary has great numbers. But they aren't against the teams that don't bother to defend him. When other teams use his defender to clog up the middle he has no good effect on our offense. If that evil man JB played him more against those teams his stats would go down appreciably. Therein lies "the rest of the story".
 

Alsacs

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A shallow dive is what too many are great at. But statistics do not ever tell the whole story. My statistics professor started us off with this little thought. Statistics don't, lie people do. Those who rely solely on statistics never tell the whole story and probably don't want to tell the whole story. Just thought some of you might want the input of a PHD professor there. Kadary has great numbers. But they aren't against the teams that don't bother to defend him. When other teams use his defender to clog up the middle he has no good effect on our offense. If that evil man JB played him more against those teams his stats would go down appreciably. Therein lies "the rest of the story".
This pure unadulterated opinion with absolutely no support to backup.

How did Kadary score 14 points going 6 for 7 last game then?

Rank our guards from best to worst.
Joe Girard, Buddy Boeheim, Kadary Richmond.
 

NineOneSeven

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A shallow dive is what too many are great at. But statistics do not ever tell the whole story. My statistics professor started us off with this little thought. Statistics don't, lie people do. Those who rely solely on statistics never tell the whole story and probably don't want to tell the whole story. Just thought some of you might want the input of a PHD professor there. Kadary has great numbers. But they aren't against the teams that don't bother to defend him. When other teams use his defender to clog up the middle he has no good effect on our offense. If that evil man JB played him more against those teams his stats would go down appreciably. Therein lies "the rest of the story".
1612371996249.png
 

SarasotaPaul

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This pure unadulterated opinion with absolutely no support to backup.

How did Kadary score 14 points going 6 for 7 last game then?

Rank our guards from best to worst.
Joe Girard, Buddy Boeheim, Kadary Richmond.
No support if you refuse to explain why some teams leave him completely alone. He is great when the other teams play him m-2-m and tight. Thats how he goes 6 for 7 in a single game. The only time he has done that if you want statistics only. How can you forget what happens when the other teams don't play him tight. You do watch all the games. I know you do as you post all the time. The stats show Kadary has great numbers. They don't show him being useless right now when the other teams leave him completely alone on offense and pack his man in the lane. As for ranking our guards I would say any one of them could be the best player on any given night and I for one am very glad for that. It really depends on what type of defense the other team is playing. I absolutely think Kadary has the biggest upside. All he needs is an average outside shot and he would be far and away our best guard. For now he is the one I want with the ball when the other team is playing tight m-2-m and either Joe or Buddy is off their game. I also want him in at the end of games for his ball handling and his defense. So if you want to think there is no support, so be it. But I also watch all the games and what I see is not reflected in just the stats. That was what I was trying to convey. In fact, your pointing to the stats in a single game that has no other game that shows the same stats actually proves what I was trying to point out. That is that statistics alone don't tell the whole story.
 

Oakland

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We are 8 games into what appears to be a 17 game conference schedule. That assumes JB is right when he said he does not expect any of the 3 conference games that were postponed will be made up. I would think there is a good chance we will lost at least one more conference game due to COVID. If so, we are exactly at the mid point in conference play.

Thought it would be a good time to look at statistics again, this time focusing on stats for conference play only.


Some observations:

Alan Griffin isn’t getting a lot of credit but his numbers to date are pretty close to those Elijah Hughes put up last year.

These stats are for conference play only, for both players.

Elijah 36.6 MPG, 41.0 FG%, 29.7 3P%, 83.2 FT%, 18.6 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 2.4 TPG
Alan 32.3 MPG, 48.0 FG%, 40.0 3P%, 83.3 FT%, 16.6 PPG. 7.4 RPG, 1.3 APG, 1.6 SPG, 2.3 BPG, 3,9 TPG

Alan is holding up very well compared to Elijah in his first year at Syracuse. He is scoring very close to the what Elijah did, especially when you compare points per minute. He is shooting significantly better from the field and the 3 point circle, getting a lot more steals and blocks, but also turning it over more and getting less assists. He has also taken significantly less FTs per game, which is the primary reason Elijah has been able to outscore him despite much worse shooting numbers. I think Elijah was better at switching down low and rotating in the zone, though Alan is getting better as the season progresses. Alan gets a lot more rebounds and steals, which to my eyes makes them roughly equal defensively. We probably should be giving Alan more credit than he is getting. Maybe more playing time as well.

Some other things...

We are seeing an extraordinary competition regarding assists. As of today, JGIII is leading with 29, but Marek has 28 and Buddy has 27. Kadary has the most assists per minute and has 20 overall. If he gets more than the 18.0 minutes he has been averaging the rest of the season, he has a decent chance to catch everyone and lead the team. Pretty amazing to see 4 players all with a realistic chance to lead the team in assists. We could possibly have our center or shooting guard lead the team in assists. I think it speaks to how well the team passes the ball overall.

There is a similar close competition to lead the team in steals. Right now Alan leads with 13 but Buddy and Kadary have 12 and Marek has 11. Of course, if you look at it in terms of steal per minute, Kadary would win easily.

A center or power forward leads the team in blocks just about every year. I don’t remember someone playing another position ever leading the team in blocks. That is probably going to change this season. Alan has 18. Quincy is reasonably close with 13. After that, we have Marek with 4 and Kadary with 3. Marek might finish the conference season with less than a block a game. That might be a record for a Syracuse center and speaks to why our interior defense has been pretty suspect all season.

Alan leads the team in turnovers by a large margin with 23. JGIII has only 15 turnovers for the conference season in 2.8 MPG. That is pretty impressive.

Quincy dominates the rebounding landscape averting 8.5 RPG. Alan is doing surprisingly well with 7.4 RPG. Marek is only averaging 4.9 RPG. That is kind awful for a guy playing center averaging 35.9 MPG. Kadary is averaging 2.0 RPG in only 18 MPG. JGIII is not far behind. Not good when the PGs are that close to the starting center in rebounds per minute played.

Looking at personal fouls, no real surprise here. Quincy leads the team with 22. Marek is right behind its 21. Kadary is putting some impressive numbers up but has racked up 15 PFs despite only averaging 18 MPG. That needs to change.

As far as 3 point shooting goes, Alan is leading the team with a very solid 40%. JGIII is right behind him with 38.6%. Buddy is at 30.2%. To me, this indicates it might make sense to play Kadary at PG and give some minutes at SG to JGIII. As far as 3 point shots attempted per minute, JGIII leads the team, followed closely by Alan and Buddy.

JGIII and Buddy are really struggling shooting from the field. Joe is shooting 38.8% (yes, that is only .02% higher than he shoots from the 3 point circle). Buddy isn’t much better at 39.4%. Both are exceptionally poor at drawing fouls as well. Each has only 6 FTs for the entire season. It might be good to reduce the number of shots they take from the field. The production you want is just not there.

Marek is the best on the team at drawing fouls (based on FTs attempted anyway). He has 33 FTs. Quincy is not far behind with 25 FTs attempted. Alan is okay with 18 FTs. Kadary is okay here, not quite as good as Alan. He has 9 FTs in his 18 MPG.

No real surprises with the overall conclusion. Kadary needs to play more. Buddy is not very efficient and should play less. Our most efficient lineup is probably going to have Kadary at PG and JGIII at SG.
I agree with JGIII playing at SG. The thing that doesn't get mentioned, and doesn't show up in stats, is that his handle goes from OK at PG to very good at SG.
 

FireballPhil

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We will never know the Buddy vs JG3 at the two until it happens on a semi regular basis. Overall percentages give a slight lean to Buddy but 3 pt shots lean toward Joe. There are definitely situations where different combos should work. Hopefully we get a couple players back which will better allow these combos a better chance of being played.
 

Zelda Zonk

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A shallow dive is what too many are great at. But statistics do not ever tell the whole story. My statistics professor started us off with this little thought. Statistics don't, lie people do. Those who rely solely on statistics never tell the whole story and probably don't want to tell the whole story. Just thought some of you might want the input of a PHD professor there. Kadary has great numbers. But they aren't against the teams that don't bother to defend him. When other teams use his defender to clog up the middle he has no good effect on our offense. If that evil man JB played him more against those teams his stats would go down appreciably. Therein lies "the rest of the story".
That's funny.
One doesn't need a PHD'd Professor to have 'access' to the old bromide, "You can make statistics say anything you want." Here's another: "There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Still, that doesn't make them 'untrue.'

The funny part is that you don't use facts to contradict the OP's premise. You use something far worse than statistics, and you demonstrate your own bias with your snark. That doesn't constitute "the rest of the story," only the story in your own head. That's worse than "shallow."

You've made up a scenario where Kadary can't do well against stiffer competition, which ignores... well, just soooo many things. Among them, that he wouldn't develop and learn. That the other teams decide what to concentrate on and a player adapts to those situations. That Kadary doesn't have to do any one offensive thing well to still be effective. That his defense is almost invariably still valuable, no matter how a team decides to defend his offense... Soooo many more.
 

007

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No support if you refuse to explain why some teams leave him completely alone. He is great when the other teams play him m-2-m and tight. Thats how he goes 6 for 7 in a single game. The only time he has done that if you want statistics only. How can you forget what happens when the other teams don't play him tight. You do watch all the games. I know you do as you post all the time. The stats show Kadary has great numbers. They don't show him being useless right now when the other teams leave him completely alone on offense and pack his man in the lane. As for ranking our guards I would say any one of them could be the best player on any given night and I for one am very glad for that. It really depends on what type of defense the other team is playing. I absolutely think Kadary has the biggest upside. All he needs is an average outside shot and he would be far and away our best guard. For now he is the one I want with the ball when the other team is playing tight m-2-m and either Joe or Buddy is off their game. I also want him in at the end of games for his ball handling and his defense. So if you want to think there is no support, so be it. But I also watch all the games and what I see is not reflected in just the stats. That was what I was trying to convey. In fact, your pointing to the stats in a single game that has no other game that shows the same stats actually proves what I was trying to point out. That is that statistics alone don't tell the whole story.
Paul, I know you are a good poster. Not calling you out. I'm wondering if you could link a video clip of anyone playing off of Kadary like you think is happening? To my eye, other than the 1st Pitt game, teams have not been playing him that way at all. Pitt did not play him that way the 2nd game.
 

SarasotaPaul

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That's funny.
One doesn't need a PHD'd Professor to have 'access' to the old bromide, "You can make statistics say anything you want." Here's another: "There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Still, that doesn't make them 'untrue.'

The funny part is that you don't use facts to contradict the OP's premise. You use something far worse than statistics, and you demonstrate your own bias with your snark. That doesn't constitute "the rest of the story," only the story in your own head. That's worse than "shallow."

You've made up a scenario where Kadary can't do well against stiffer competition, which ignores... well, just soooo many things. Among them, that he wouldn't develop and learn. That the other teams decide what to concentrate on and a player adapts to those situations. That Kadary doesn't have to do any one offensive thing well to still be effective. That his defense is almost invariably still valuable, no matter how a team decides to defend his offense... Soooo many more.
I made up no scenario whatsoever. You just make up things I didn't say and ignore much of what I did say to rebut my statement. Amazing how people do that.The stats are true. Never said otherwise. Never said he wouldn't grow or progress or become a superstar. But go ahead and tell me I did so you can tell me otherwise. What I said was stats don't tell the whole story. What I have observed is not made up scenarios. He actually does best against hard m-2-m (i.e. stiffer competition) but then I said that too and you ignored that as well. Bromide or not or whatever you throw at the wall in the hopes it sticks you need a bit of reading comprehension before tossing out ideas like I don't see what I see. Here is a fact. I observed Kadary standing on one side of the court while his defender was within a foot or two of the lane not paying a lick of attention to him. This has happened in more than one game. Sorry there aren't stats for not being defended against. I hear announcers pointing this out that the other team wasn't defending him. That is not something made up in my head. So call it what you want. Funny - no stats to back it up - or whatever other blinders you want to wear. His defense is the best of the 3 guards. But you know what. Sometimes scoring more than the other team wins games and there are times we need more offense more than we need more defense. Sometimes he is the answer for that and others he is not. Not yet anyway.
 

dasher

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No support if you refuse to explain why some teams leave him completely alone. He is great when the other teams play him m-2-m and tight. Thats how he goes 6 for 7 in a single game. The only time he has done that if you want statistics only. How can you forget what happens when the other teams don't play him tight. You do watch all the games. I know you do as you post all the time. The stats show Kadary has great numbers. They don't show him being useless right now when the other teams leave him completely alone on offense and pack his man in the lane. As for ranking our guards I would say any one of them could be the best player on any given night and I for one am very glad for that. It really depends on what type of defense the other team is playing. I absolutely think Kadary has the biggest upside. All he needs is an average outside shot and he would be far and away our best guard. For now he is the one I want with the ball when the other team is playing tight m-2-m and either Joe or Buddy is off their game. I also want him in at the end of games for his ball handling and his defense. So if you want to think there is no support, so be it. But I also watch all the games and what I see is not reflected in just the stats. That was what I was trying to convey. In fact, your pointing to the stats in a single game that has no other game that shows the same stats actually proves what I was trying to point out. That is that statistics alone don't tell the whole story.
Paul, let's look at this another way. Let's just look at one side of the court. Defense. There is no question that Kadray is a much better defender than either Joe or Buddy. I don't think any sane person would argue that. Giving you all of your points on people laying off Kadray and that clogging up the middle, his defense alone should keep him on the court. It is half the game. And while I think Buddy and Joe are better than they were last year ( a very low bar) they are no where near the defender that Kadray is. And Kadray makes steals that leads to break outs. That is offense to.
 

Toga

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That's funny.
One doesn't need a PHD'd Professor to have 'access' to the old bromide, "You can make statistics say anything you want." Here's another: "There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Still, that doesn't make them 'untrue.'

The funny part is that you don't use facts to contradict the OP's premise. You use something far worse than statistics, and you demonstrate your own bias with your snark. That doesn't constitute "the rest of the story," only the story in your own head. That's worse than "shallow."

You've made up a scenario where Kadary can't do well against stiffer competition, which ignores... well, just soooo many things. Among them, that he wouldn't develop and learn. That the other teams decide what to concentrate on and a player adapts to those situations. That Kadary doesn't have to do any one offensive thing well to still be effective. That his defense is almost invariably still valuable, no matter how a team decides to defend his offense... Soooo many more.
Kadary will play in the NBA one day. That's my statistic. He apparently loses the court spacing argument while stuffing his statistics.
 

Zelda Zonk

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I made up no scenario whatsoever. You just make up things I didn't say and ignore much of what I did say to rebut my statement. Amazing how people do that.The stats are true. Never said otherwise. Never said he wouldn't grow or progress or become a superstar. But go ahead and tell me I did so you can tell me otherwise. What I said was stats don't tell the whole story. What I have observed is not made up scenarios. He actually does best against hard m-2-m (i.e. stiffer competition) but then I said that too and you ignored that as well. Bromide or not or whatever you throw at the wall in the hopes it sticks you need a bit of reading comprehension before tossing out ideas like I don't see what I see. Here is a fact. I observed Kadary standing on one side of the court while his defender was within a foot or two of the lane not paying a lick of attention to him. This has happened in more than one game. Sorry there aren't stats for not being defended against. I hear announcers pointing this out that the other team wasn't defending him. That is not something made up in my head. So call it what you want. Funny - no stats to back it up - or whatever other blinders you want to wear. His defense is the best of the 3 guards. But you know what. Sometimes scoring more than the other team wins games and there are times we need more offense more than we need more defense. Sometimes he is the answer for that and others he is not. Not yet anyway.
"If that evil man JB played him more against those teams his stats would go down appreciably."

That is pure 'speculation' on your part. If you don't understand how that is "made up," i can't even.
 

CuseFaninVT

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Channeling my inner millhouse. This is so dumb. If it were actually true that Kadary's defender was not actively engaged with him, and instead stepping back to clog up the middle, why in the hell aren't we using him to free up Buddy, and Griff, and Joe so he can pick their defender leaving them WIDE THE HELL OPEN to bomb away from three? Because it's not really happening.

All he'd have to do is pass left, and go pick the shooter on the right, or vice versa. Or he could do the old dribble handoff and stand there and pick Buddy's man. Easy peasy.
 

Cusefan0307

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Channeling my inner millhouse. This is so dumb. If it were actually true that Kadary's defender was not actively engaged with him, and instead stepping back to clog up the middle, why in the hell aren't we using him to free up Buddy, and Griff, and Joe so he can pick their defender leaving them WIDE THE HELL OPEN to bomb away from three? Because it's not really happening.

All he'd have to do is pass left, and go pick the shooter on the right, or vice versa. Or he could do the old dribble handoff and stand there and pick Buddy's man. Easy peasy.

thats a very FUNGIBLE observation you made there
 

SarasotaPaul

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"If that evil man JB played him more against those teams his stats would go down appreciably."
That is pure 'speculation' on your part. If you don't understand how that is "made up," i can't even.
Since you can't even, lets try this on for size. The two games I watched him be less than effective, both loses, these are the stats, facts ( my speculation according to you ) from the box scores. And also where the other team didn't really have any interest in guarding him though they play m-2-m.

NC 16 minutes -1 assist - 1 turnover - 1 steal - 2 points - 1 for two from the field
Pitt 18 minutes - 3 assists - 0 t/o - 0 steals - 2 points - 1 for 6 from the field.

Do you see a 6 for 7 in there? Do you see a big upside in there? Now maybe you can imagine I actually know what I am watching. Pray tell, what did you watch during these games?

For the record that is about the average minutes he plays per game. With double the time he would probably have scored 4 points. I mean stats are stats right? And I still think Kadary will be our best guard in all instances before too long. He will have all the tools needed to be a good NBA player.
 
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djcon57

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Since you can't even, lets try this on for size. The two games I watched him be less than effective, both loses, these are the stats, facts ( my speculation according to you ) from the box scores. And also where the other team didn't really have any interest in guarding him though they play m-2-m.

NC 16 minutes -1 assist - 1 turnover - 1 steal - 2 points - 1 for two from the field
Pitt 18 minutes - 3 assists - 0 t/o - 0 steals - 2 points - 1 for 6 from the field.

Do you see a 6 for 7 in there? Do you see a big upside in there? Now maybe you can imagine I actually know what I am watching. Pray tell, what did you watch during these games?

For the record that is about the average minutes he plays per game. With double the time he would probably have scored 4 points. I mean stats are stats right? And I still think Kadary will be our best guard in all instances before too long. He will have all the tools needed to be a good NBA player.

Kadarys BPM was higher than Joe’s in both games you mentioned yet he played less mins than him in both.

So your eye test doesn’t really do much for me here.
 

OrangeAl

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What this whole conversation reveals is that all of our guards have big holes in their game.
Take your pick: the undisciplined shooter, the slumping shooter, or the non-shooter.
Kadary drives well when teams play him up close, and he does circles around the other two when it comes to defense.
 

Alsacs

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What this whole conversation reveals is that all of our guards have big holes in their game.
Take your pick: the undisciplined shooter, the slumping shooter, or the non-shooter.
Kadary drives well when teams play him up close, and he does circles around the other two when it comes to defense.
What about defense which is half of the game?
 

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