Life post Fab Melo

[Niastri]

Our current situation has been spelled out.

We are grinding with medium level Big East teams. But, medium level Big East teams are still tough teams to play against.

Nobody here thought Melo was as important as he turned out to be.

Suddenly, our games are like most Big East games. We are suffering hard grind out type games where the officials matter much more than they should.

Syracuse lost in a stunner to a Notre Dame team who caught us on a day where we were terrible and the team was in shock about the loss of two of their guys. We know that Melo is the only player that matters, but Jones leaving had to hurt these guys a bit.

In the last three games, we have played teams ranked 17 (WVU) 96 (Cinci) and 82(ND). We lost one of those games badly.

ND smacking us hurt us all badly. However, what we have left isn't that bad of a team.

If we started the season with this roster, we would have already seen all our small forwards pretend to be rebounders. We would have been ok with undersized Keita (who was great last year) and MCD CENTER Rak Christmas playing our center position.

We are now life after death. We lost somebody. We loved how he played. We will miss him.

Our team was going to be very good if we had to rely on Christmas and Keita at center, and with Joseph, Southerland and Fair as our forwards, with Jones as a backup.

The only thing we lost from this scenario is Jones, who wasn't going to play anyway.

C: Keita/Christmas
PF: Joseph/Christmas
: Fair/Southerland
SG: Triche/Waiters
PG: Jardine/Carter-Williams

Any one of us would have gone to war with Keita and Christmas fighting over Center.

Unfortunately, we would have been just another Syracuse team with undersized pivot players, but we would have easily expected both our big men to improve during the season. We would have expected Christmas to be a very good big man by season end, and suffered through his growing pains. We already knew what was wrong with Keita regarding bulk. We already knew that Joseph, Southerland and Fair are not big forwards yet.

OK, so lets play this game out like it is before the season.

We won a lot of games with Melo, who proved to be great!

C: Keita/Christmas
PF: Joseph/Christmas
: Fair/Southerland
SG: Triche/Waiters
PG: Jardine/Carter-Williams

Keita and Christmas are learning to play center again for more than a couple minutes. Joseph/Southerland/Fair are learning that they have a new center at the position, and they now have to work very hard to rebound.

Our guards are learning that the center position actually does matter on offense!

Melo had an effect on every part of the game, and now that he is gone, the team needs to learn how to play again against the hardest possible competition.

AND YET WE ARE STILL WINNING!

 

[rrlbees]

Your post sounds like you assume Melo is done for the year.

 

[Niastri]

I do assume that.

 

[310Pigpen]

And why's that?

 

[CusefanATL]

I do assume that.

Why?

 

[DNABB5]

And why's that?

Because we are at the mercy of the NCAA?

 

[Marsh01]

I think you need to put that thought on hold...

 

[Niastri]

Melo is gone.

Consider the team without him. JB right now is playing a team without him, why can't you?

 

[Victory Lap]

Or why don't we wait until we know something about the situation before we form too many opinions about it?

 

[Niastri]

I am not making an opinion. I merely believe that we shall have to play the rest of the season without Fab Melo.

This thread is an examination of what we would do without him.

The games without him the rest of the season will be like any other critical missing player.

Unfortunately, we will be graded harshly based on the loss off one of our best and most important players. JB is prepared for his loss, yet none of our fans seem to be.

(remember the stages of forgiveness... bargaining, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance)

Melo screwed us all by being great this year, for only half the year.

 

[Niastri]

Larry Niven once wrote the great quote:

I will get over this as some point, why not now?

 

[suhoops4life]

Our current situation has been spelled out.

We are grinding with medium level Big East teams. But, medium level Big East teams are still tough teams to play against.

Nobody here thought Melo was as important as he turned out to be.

Suddenly, our games are like most Big East games. We are suffering hard grind out type games where the officials matter much more than they should.

Syracuse lost in a stunner to a Notre Dame team who caught us on a day where we were terrible and the team was in shock about the loss of two of their guys. We know that Melo is the only player that matters, but Jones leaving had to hurt these guys a bit.

In the last three games, we have played teams ranked 17 (WVU) 96 (Cinci) and 82(ND). We lost one of those games badly.

ND smacking us hurt us all badly. However, what we have left isn't that bad of a team.

If we started the season with this roster, we would have already seen all our small forwards pretend to be rebounders. We would have been ok with undersized Keita (who was great last year) and MCD CENTER Rak Christmas playing our center position.

We are now life after death. We lost somebody. We loved how he played. We will miss him.

Our team was going to be very good if we had to rely on Christmas and Keita at center, and with Joseph, Southerland and Fair as our forwards, with Jones as a backup.

The only thing we lost from this scenario is Jones, who wasn't going to play anyway.

C: Keita/Christmas
PF: Joseph/Christmas
: Fair/Southerland
SG: Triche/Waiters
PG: Jardine/Carter-Williams

Any one of us would have gone to war with Keita and Christmas fighting over Center.

Unfortunately, we would have been just another Syracuse team with undersized pivot players, but we would have easily expected both our big men to improve during the season. We would have expected Christmas to be a very good big man by season end, and suffered through his growing pains. We already knew what was wrong with Keita regarding bulk. We already knew that Joseph, Southerland and Fair are not big forwards yet.

OK, so lets play this game out like it is before the season.

We won a lot of games with Melo, who proved to be great!

C: Keita/Christmas
PF: Joseph/Christmas
: Fair/Southerland
SG: Triche/Waiters
PG: Jardine/Carter-Williams

Keita and Christmas are learning to play center again for more than a couple minutes. Joseph/Southerland/Fair are learning that they have a new center at the position, and they now have to work very hard to rebound.

Our guards are learning that the center position actually does matter on offense!

Melo had an effect on every part of the game, and now that he is gone, the team needs to learn how to play again against the hardest possible competition.

AND YET WE ARE STILL WINNING!

The Notre Dame game was played without any real non-Melo prep. It takes weeks of practice for players to get comfortable with rotations. At the risk of using an overused cliche, it was like a big wrench being thrown into the gears. Nasty stuff.

Now, the team may well be feeling like they're in limbo. Nothing is fully resolved. Once the final verdict is public knowledge one way or the other, the push forward toward March can begin in earnest.

 

[cap2nine]

In response to the OP, you are absolutely right that Melo is important to our success on both ends of the floor. But, you are also ignoring a critical mistake that SU has been making all season long. The Orange have flat out taken way too many 3's and settled for lots of long jumpers. The ND game was our worst all-around performance and I do feel that the team was a little off kilter due to Melo's absence. But, the Cinci game was a nice rebound, Scoop, Triche, Fair and KJ spent more time driving the lane and playing an interior game on the offensive end. Only a dozen attempts from behind the arc that game and it was a very nice result. Tonight, we hoisted 20 shots from 3pt range! No reason we should be doing that but it has been the norm throughout this season. For some reason Boeheim doesn't put a stop to it. If you take away the outside shooting tonight, what remains is 19 of 30 for over 63% shooting. So, I may be wrong but in my observation if someone can convince this team to drive to the basket and limit itself to 10 or 12 3pt shots per game, the absence of Melo can be controlled even if he is missed.

 

[mantonio]

Melo is gone.

Consider the team without him. JB right now is playing a team without him, why can't you?

Judging from your avatar, you are truly the Devil's advocate...

 

[realorange]

Larry Niven once wrote the great quote:

I will get over this as some point, why not now?

Interesting that you would quote a science fiction writer. I think most of us are ready if Melo does not come back. Certainly you play with the players you have now or in the future. JB and the players are doing it, albeit with mixed results due to lackluster play from some. I believe it has more to do with some of them getting their heads out of a dark place then Melo being missing from the lineup. I tend to go with more reality than science fiction.

 

[Orangemen]

According to the announcers, JB was hopeful that Fab could have played yesterday. It sounded like something had to get finished, but did not get finished in time.

That gives me a lot of confidence that whatever needs to get done will get done by next weeks game.

 

[SoBristol]

Putting aside any psycho-analysis of how the loss affected the team, we got murdered on the glass -- at both ends.

WVa easily bodied our guys away from any offensive boards; and on the offensive end, they got inside, got second chances, got our centers in foul trouble, and got a number of inside finishes.

Can't hold your own on the boards with the likes of WVa or ND = you are a vulnerable team.

Joseph and Southerland shoot bricks from the outside = you are a vulnerable team. Don't see how Melo's absence accounts for inconsistent shooting, or for Dion's play.

You have to get steals, guard penetration for finishes. Hope for the "hand of God" and a missed call.

 

[Victory Lap]

[quote="SoBristol, post: 169259, member:

Joseph and Southerland shoot bricks from the outside = you are a vulnerable team. Don't see how Melo's absence accounts for inconsistent shooting, or for Dion's play.

You have to get steals, guard penetration for finishes. Hope for the "hand of God" and a missed call.[/quote]

We won't be bricking those shots all year, with or without melo. 2-star High school recruits could have hit those. People have off-nights. Especially in the midst of a major personnel adjustment. We'll be aight.

 

[Niastri]

Putting aside any psycho-analysis of how the loss affected the team, we got murdered on the glass -- at both ends.

WVa easily bodied our guys away from any offensive boards; and on the offensive end, they got inside, got second chances, got our centers in foul trouble, and got a number of inside finishes.

Can't hold your own on the boards with the likes of WVa or ND = you are a vulnerable team.

Joseph and Southerland shoot bricks from the outside = you are a vulnerable team. Don't see how Melo's absence accounts for inconsistent shooting, or for Dion's play.

You have to get steals, guard penetration for finishes. Hope for the "hand of God" and a missed call.

Our rebounding is not so incredible poor if we have Melo in there. People are afraid to get blocked when he is in there. Our offensive balance is better when we have Melo in there.

All of these things are gone, and we can only hope Keita and Christmas can give us some of that in time.

 

[SoBristol]

Our rebounding is not so incredible poor if we have Melo in there. People are afraid to get blocked when he is in there. Our offensive balance is better when we have Melo in there.

All of these things are gone, and we can only hope Keita and Christmas can give us some of that in time.

Yes -- Melo provides a big difference on the boards, clearly, despite the fact he only averages 6 reb/game. Defending inside (or not) makes a huge difference. Also, Melo provides a credible threat inside on offense, for alley-oops and an occasional inside move.

When I say we are a vulnerable team, I mean a lot of teams will match up with us in the round of 32 and have a chance for an upset if they shoot well. I mean we have 8 tough games remaining in the reg season -- and every one of those games could be close, unless we shoot well from the outside (Joseph & Southerland) and get scoring from Dion.

 

[NKR1978]

The Notre Dame game was played without any real non-Melo prep. It takes weeks of practice for players to get comfortable with rotations. At the risk of using an overused cliche, it was like a big wrench being thrown into the gears. Nasty stuff.

Now, the team may well be feeling like they're in limbo. Nothing is fully resolved. Once the final verdict is public knowledge one way or the other, the push forward toward March can begin in earnest.

Exactly. Look how long it took ND to figure out how to play without Abro. We take a big piece of our rotation out, combine that with an epic shooting slump and poor play from Dion and we finish 2-1 and people think the sky has collapsed on top of us.

It is funny to have this thread now when it seems like we may have Melo back either for SJU or Gtown.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Without Melo this teams won't go on a title run. Unless Waiters, Jardine, and/or Joseph absolutely catch fire.

Melo helps out a ton on the boards. Plus if we are giving up offensive boards, he has the defensive presence to not allow an easy layup. He's this team's MVP.

 

[alibrat66]

Our current situation has been spelled out.

We are grinding with medium level Big East teams. But, medium level Big East teams are still tough teams to play against.

Nobody here thought Melo was as important as he turned out to be.

Suddenly, our games are like most Big East games. We are suffering hard grind out type games where the officials matter much more than they should.

Syracuse lost in a stunner to a Notre Dame team who caught us on a day where we were terrible and the team was in shock about the loss of two of their guys. We know that Melo is the only player that matters, but Jones leaving had to hurt these guys a bit.

In the last three games, we have played teams ranked 17 (WVU) 96 (Cinci) and 82(ND). We lost one of those games badly.

ND smacking us hurt us all badly. However, what we have left isn't that bad of a team.

If we started the season with this roster, we would have already seen all our small forwards pretend to be rebounders. We would have been ok with undersized Keita (who was great last year) and MCD CENTER Rak Christmas playing our center position.

We are now life after death. We lost somebody. We loved how he played. We will miss him.

Our team was going to be very good if we had to rely on Christmas and Keita at center, and with Joseph, Southerland and Fair as our forwards, with Jones as a backup.

The only thing we lost from this scenario is Jones, who wasn't going to play anyway.

C: Keita/Christmas
PF: Joseph/Christmas
: Fair/Southerland
SG: Triche/Waiters
PG: Jardine/Carter-Williams

Any one of us would have gone to war with Keita and Christmas fighting over Center.

Unfortunately, we would have been just another Syracuse team with undersized pivot players, but we would have easily expected both our big men to improve during the season. We would have expected Christmas to be a very good big man by season end, and suffered through his growing pains. We already knew what was wrong with Keita regarding bulk. We already knew that Joseph, Southerland and Fair are not big forwards yet.

OK, so lets play this game out like it is before the season.

We won a lot of games with Melo, who proved to be great!

C: Keita/Christmas
PF: Joseph/Christmas
: Fair/Southerland
SG: Triche/Waiters
PG: Jardine/Carter-Williams

Keita and Christmas are learning to play center again for more than a couple minutes. Joseph/Southerland/Fair are learning that they have a new center at the position, and they now have to work very hard to rebound.

Our guards are learning that the center position actually does matter on offense!

Melo had an effect on every part of the game, and now that he is gone, the team needs to learn how to play again against the hardest possible competition.

AND YET WE ARE STILL WINNING!

Hyperbole alert: "We would have been ok with undersized Keita (who was great last year)". Great? Please. How many great players were there in college basketball last year? Kemba Walker, Jimmer Fredette, Jared Sullinger, JaJuan Johnson, and a few others might fall into the great category. But Baye Keita? I don't think so. We must have different definitions of great.

 

[Niastri]

Hyperbole alert: "We would have been ok with undersized Keita (who was great last year)". Great? Please. How many great players were there in college basketball last year? Kemba Walker, Jimmer Fredette, Jared Sullinger, JaJuan Johnson, and a few others might fall into the great category. But Baye Keita? I don't think so. We must have different definitions of great.

Yeah, I reread that and questioned my own word choice. Serviceable was probably a better word to use.

 

[arrow2arinzesknee]

First off, We are 2-1 without Fab during the middle of Big East season. We are 9-1 in conference, and West Virginia is one of the few teams with a "zone-buster" kind of player, and Notre Dame is one of those teams that can beat anyone, especially at home, especially when that team has to adjust to playing a new style without their big.

I think that Fab's loss puts us from probably in the Final Four to a team that still is in the top 8-10 teams in the nation, which lines us up for a final four run all the same.

lets not overreact to a 3 game sample size (in which we won 2). The team now can play a smaller lineup that I think can ultimately be even harder to defend, as they can be quicker and push the pace even more.

Christmas is going to be inconsistent, but he doesn't need to be phenomenal, lets face it if we hit even a few of the wide open looks we got vs. WVU we win handily. We are just in a shooting slump, it happens, and we are 201 during it. can't complain

are we better with Fab? absolutely
are we doomed to losing a special season? verdict is still out
should we enjoy what we still have and do we still have a title shot?- absolutely