Long Term Physical Impacts Of Sports

[Shenexon]

The Washington Post has a good article on the long-term physical impacts on NFL players from injuries sustained on the field, who is responsible for the costs of treatments & health care for those affected, and how the NFL often seeks to deny any long-term responsibility. For those that sustain similar injuries in college, is there any liability for the schools involved?

LINK

 

[All4SU]

We really need to just do away with tackle football. Flag football only. No helmets or pads. Make it coed. Obviously the owners don't make enough money to pay these players a "salary" which adequately compensates them. And the poor players aren't educated enough, or smart enough, or qualified enough to do anything else for a living.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The Washington Post has a good article on the long-term physical impacts on NFL players from injuries sustained on the field, who is responsible for the costs of treatments & health care for those affected, and how the NFL often seeks to deny any long-term responsibility. For those that sustain similar injuries in college, is there any liability for the schools involved?

LINK

Why aren't the participants, who were well aware of the risks, responsible for their own health care saving money instead of spending it on bling, drugs and cars. The lack of expectation of personal responsibility is even more disturbing than the actual lack of personal responsibilitym

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[HtownOrange]

Why aren't the participants, who were well aware of the risks, responsible for their own health care saving money instead of spending it on bling, drugs and cars. The lack of expectation of personal responsibility is even more disturbing than the actual lack of personal responsibilitym

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

In the players' defense, many have been concussed so many times, they cannot think for themselves and/or have forgotten everything, including their secret stash of cash for just such a development. Other than that, I got nothing and fully agree.

 

[fairfaxcuse]

Why aren't the participants, who were well aware of the risks, responsible for their own health care saving money instead of spending it on bling, drugs and cars. The lack of expectation of personal responsibility is even more disturbing than the actual lack of personal responsibilitym

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

People discount the risks of their actions. The difference is that some regulations require insurance (e.g workers comp, basic auto, home) and most others do not. College football does not pay workers comp. nfl disability policy is rather weak for old players, but in fairness, neither the nfl or the players understood the risks. Now that they do, they can design much better disability policies so this doesn't keep happening. The problem w the nfl is that they haven't tried to do so because those costs are very high given the violent nature of the sport and I suspect the players would not truly value those policies.

 

[kirbivore]

We really need to just do away with tackle football. Flag football only. No helmets or pads. Make it coed. Obviously the owners don't make enough money to pay these players a "salary" which adequately compensates them. And the poor players aren't educated enough, or smart enough, or qualified enough to do anything else for a living.

 

[CuseOnly]

People discount the risks of their actions. The difference is that some regulations require insurance (e.g workers comp, basic auto, home) and most others do not. College football does not pay workers comp. nfl disability policy is rather weak for old players, but in fairness, neither the nfl or the players understood the risks. Now that they do, they can design much better disability policies so this doesn't keep happening. The problem w the nfl is that they haven't tried to do so because those costs are very high given the violent nature of the sport and I suspect the players would not truly value those policies.

Isn't it true that if you serve a term as senator, governor, congressman or President that you get lifetime healthcare for free? With the $ that the NFL has, why is this even an issue?

 

[HtownOrange]

Isn't it true that if you serve a term as senator, governor, congressman or President that you get lifetime healthcare for free? With the $ that the NFL has, why is this even an issue?

The difference is that the NFL is a business and must always perform to satisfy their customers and elected officials need only get elected to receive their lifetime benefits without regard to whether they have satisfied their constituents, upheld the Constitution or or actually benefited this country.

 

[fairfaxcuse]

Isn't it true that if you serve a term as senator, governor, congressman or President that you get lifetime healthcare for free? With the $ that the NFL has, why is this even an issue?

good question. The answers, at least from the nfl perspective:
1. disability policies are extremely expensive, even for a cash cow like the nfl. To illustrate, the us spends 12% of federal outlays on people with disabilities for cash and health outlays alone, which is staggering. The spending is widely inefficient because it goes to people after they are permanently disabled, rather than trying to keep them into the workforce (kind of like what is happening with former nfl players...in fact, the policies are very similar).

2. for better or worse, current owners and players will argue it is not their responsibility to pay the expenses of past players who they didn't pay/employ/treat. While they may have built the league, both existing players and owners can say they too paid for that building (when they bought the team for the owners or made the league given stiffer competition for the players).

The disability politics of the nfl will be interesting. if the nfl has to start paying for this stuff, i would expect that you could see much more proactive earlier interventions related to things like steroids, weight issues, and concussions because it is easier to pay for these things in advance than way until you have to deal with someone in their 50s.

 

[texascpa]

Why aren't the participants, who were well aware of the risks, responsible for their own health care saving money instead of spending it on bling, drugs and cars. The lack of expectation of personal responsibility is even more disturbing than the actual lack of personal responsibilitym

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

Because we have sanitized living. Nothing is our fault and we should never be responsible for our decisions.

 

[omg_cuse_rules]

Injuries aside, pro football is better than spending 40plus years in a cubicle.

 

[billsin01]

We really need to just do away with tackle football. Flag football only. No helmets or pads. Make it coed. Obviously the owners don't make enough money to pay these players a "salary" which adequately compensates them. And the poor players aren't educated enough, or smart enough, or qualified enough to do anything else for a living.

Hold on a minute. I have a few significant objections to this -- what field could these dudes go into that offer not only the salary but the fame and perks that come with being an NFL football player? To suggest that a slew of kids should thumb their nose at a potential career in the NFL to join a real estate agency or an engineering firm is ridiculous.

And, it's naive to suggest that somehow these kids, even if they chose to do that, are actually qualified to do anything else that would afford them a higher-end living. I mean, you actually have to get a job and then be successful (or at least fake being hard-working and successful) to move up and make good money. Sure, a bunch of these kids could conceivably do that but A LOT of these kids couldn't. Not only are many coming from horrible school systems with very little meaningful parental support, they are then put in colleges where it's made painfully obvious that all the school cares about is how good they are at sports (remember that point guard we had a while back who got caught shop-lifting and the head coach essentially refused to address it?).

But even if you think all of that is BS -- long-term brain injuries are not something that were widely discussed and known of until the past few years. I mean, how many pop warner coaches are having long talks about early onset Alzheimer's with their teams? And how many people here, prior to maybe the past 5 years or so, truly understood the impact of concussions and long-term brain injuries associated with playing sports? Suggesting that somehow a guy like John Mackey should have known and prepared for losing his faculties at 50 or whatever is just crazy.

The bottom line is this:

A) kids shouldn't play football. I know they will and I know people will think I'm nuts, but it's a really dangerous sport and parkinson's/alzheimers/early onset dementia/severe depression are not something I'm going to let my kids gamble on. I work in long-term care -- I've seen enough to know it's a miserable plight.

B) The NFL should not only actually have some sort of soul and actually address the long-term effects of having giants crashing into each other full speed for 10 years, but even if they don't care about the guys who made them their money, the owners should address it for PR reasons.

C) This doesn't seem like an all-or-nothing problem. The NFL should be able to work with the Players Union (who is also to blame here) to come up with a solution where the players contribute to a program and the owners match, or whatever. It's fine to force the players to take some ownership of their long-term health. Why not?

D) I've said this before, but most of this controversy surrounds retired players. To suggest they "knew" or "should've known" the risk is absurd. Sure, gimpy knees and bad backs are some bizarre badge of honor for dopey football players, but to their credit, they didn't know what they were getting into. No one did.

 

[billsin01]

Because we have sanitized living. Nothing is our fault and we should never be responsible for our decisions.

Again, no one was aware of the long-term effects of a life in pro football as athletes got bigger and faster and stronger and, another thing no one talks about, more juiced. And the league and all it's coaches added fuel to the fire by singing the praises of idiots who wanted to play with broken collarbones and concussions and gimpy knees.

The idea that the NFL should try to do something for those retired players who are dealing with major physical problems doesn't seem like something that should be controversial. Going forward, work with the players union and make sure the players are educated and forced to contribute to a long-term health program of some sort. That's fine, but retired players are a different story.

 

[sufandu]

Why aren't the participants, who were well aware of the risks, responsible for their own health care saving money instead of spending it on bling, drugs and cars. The lack of expectation of personal responsibility is even more disturbing than the actual lack of personal responsibilitym

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

Many of the players dealing with the long terms effects of football are from an era when they didn't make all that much money. They didn't all buy "bling", and the longterm effects weren't known at the time.

 

[sufandu]

Because we have sanitized living. Nothing is our fault and we should never be responsible for our decisions.

I'm assuming, based on your screen name, that you're an accountant. I find it funny that a person who's job could result in, at worst, a paper cut, has such a strong opinion about work related injuries.

 

[texascpa]

I'm assuming, based on your screen name, that you're an accountant. I find it funny that a person who's job could result in, at worst, a paper cut, has such a strong opinion about work related injuries.

Am I not allowed to have an opinion? Oh, I'm sorry, I guess because of my occupation I'm not supposed to comment on anything outside of my little world.

 

[billsin01]

Am I not allowed to have an opinion? Oh, I'm sorry, I guess because of my occupation I'm not supposed to comment on anything outside of my little world.

I think his point was more that it's funny that you seem so hard-lined in insinuating that these guys and the world in general are a bunch of pansies who take no accountability for their actions while apparently not accounting to the fact that their profession is essentially human wrecking ball. It's one thing to talk about a litigious society or employers being expected to foot the bill for every health situation one encounters, but dealing with severe conditions brought on by the very violence the league encourages every day would appear to be a pretty obviously unique circumstance.

 

[tep624]

Isn't it true that if you serve a term as senator, governor, congressman or President that you get lifetime healthcare for free? With the $ that the NFL has, why is this even an issue?

Pretty sure that Senators, Governors, Congressmen, and Presidents don't get salaried to slam their heads together. Clearly from a liability standpoint it's not a good comparison.

Also pretty sure that the US Federal Gov't has a tiny bit more money to play around with than the NFL does.

 

[texascpa]

I think his point was more that it's funny that you seem so hard-lined in insinuating that these guys and the world in general are a bunch of pansies who take no accountability for their actions while apparently not accounting to the fact that their profession is essentially human wrecking ball. It's one thing to talk about a litigious society or employers being expected to foot the bill for every health situation one encounters, but dealing with severe conditions brought on by the very violence the league encourages every day would appear to be a pretty obviously unique circumstance.

no one forces these guys to play.

 

[tep624]

Many of the players dealing with the long terms effects of football are from an era when they didn't make all that much money. They didn't all buy "bling", and the longterm effects weren't known at the time.

Are you trying to make the argument that people 50 years ago didn't realize that if you slammed your heads together hard that you could potentially have some long term problems? Come on.

Joint issues, hips needing to be replaced, cartilidge, arthritic issues, those things I can see. Obviously the sport of football played at the NFL level was relatively new back then and noone had a good idea of the wear and tear the sport would take from the lateral motion, acceleration and quick stops required by it. However, it's pretty much common sense that if you're slamming your head into things, it's probably going to cause you some problems down the road. If these guys were truly naive to that, then they probably were in the right profession to begin with.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Many of the players dealing with the long terms effects of football are from an era when they didn't make all that much money. They didn't all buy "bling", and the longterm effects weren't known at the time.

They could buy their own health insurance and pay for it throughout their lives, just like other people do

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[billsin01]

no one forces these guys to play.

What about the guys coerced into playing after that minor little injury known as a bell-ringing? Your opinion is based on text book economics.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

no one forces these guys to play.

no one forces people to watch

 

[billsin01]

Are you trying to make the argument that people 50 years ago didn't realize that if you slammed your heads together hard that you could potentially have some long term problems? Come on.

Joint issues, hips needing to be replaced, cartilidge, arthritic issues, those things I can see. Obviously the sport of football played at the NFL level was relatively new back then and noone had a good idea of the wear and tear the sport would take from the lateral motion, acceleration and quick stops required by it. However, it's pretty much common sense that if you're slamming your head into things, it's probably going to cause you some problems down the road. If these guys were truly naive to that, then they probably were in the right profession to begin with.

This is true and not true all at the same time. The NFL and football in general has always adhered to this dopey notion that lingering injuries are some sort of badge of courage. They've also -- at almost all levels -- encouraged playing hurt and 'manning up' instead of actually letting your body heal. Whoever started that and why people buy into it is beyond me.

But, for me anyway, I'm not as concerned about players' aches and pains and surgeries for back issues and that sort of thing. Everyone knew about that.

However, I feel the NFL needs to do two things and really can't complain about either:

1) Deal with veteran players (and I'm talking as recent as the Teddy Bruschi types) and try to help with a meaningful way regarding conditions resulting from traumatic brain injuries. Donate to research, contribute to care, help to set up some sort of retired player health charity. Let's face it, no one knew playing middle linebacker for four super bowl teams would end up in severe chronic depression and early onset dementia. And it's not like the NFL made it any better by constantly pushing these players to kill themselves week after week -- something to it's credit it appears to be trying to slowly undo.

2) Try to encourage current players to invest in long-term health insurance. Work with the players union. Who does this hurt? This whole "oh the players should know" is like saying "people know they shouldn't drink and drive." It doesn't solve anything -- harsh penalties are a start but cities and bars and private industry making it easier to avoid driving home after having a few beers is a huge step too. It was like DC complaining about drunk driving but closing metro at 11 or midnight on weekends. Makes no sense. Helping people help themselves is good for everyone.

 

[sufandu]

Are you trying to make the argument that people 50 years ago didn't realize that if you slammed your heads together hard that you could potentially have some long term problems? Come on.

Joint issues, hips needing to be replaced, cartilidge, arthritic issues, those things I can see. Obviously the sport of football played at the NFL level was relatively new back then and noone had a good idea of the wear and tear the sport would take from the lateral motion, acceleration and quick stops required by it. However, it's pretty much common sense that if you're slamming your head into things, it's probably going to cause you some problems down the road. If these guys were truly naive to that, then they probably were in the right profession to begin with.

I'm absolutely making the statement that people 50 years ago had no clue about the longterm ramifications of concussions. Neurological research is lightyears beyond what it was 50 years ago and we still don't know all that much about it. If the neurologists of the time were clueless about it, how would the players have any idea about it.