Marquette as a Program Comparable?

[jncuse]

So Marquette has beaten Georgia to get to 6-0. After its earlier win this week against Purdue, it is poised to enter the top 10 for the third year in a row.

It got me to thinking about Marquette as a comparable. 3 main questions
1) Is it a reasonable comparable
2) Would you be satisfied with their performance from 2017-2025
3) What do we need to get to that level success wise

Is it a reasonable comparable?
Like us, Marquette is in a conference well outside of its geographical setting.
Marquette has pretty good attendance and local following.
Marquette is not a state school.

In the NIL world many here say we can't compete with many schools NIL wise. I would assume Marquette doesn't have more (or much more) resources than us for their team (stand to be corrected)

Would their performance from 2017 to 2025 be satisfactory to you moving forward?
10 seed
NIT
5 seed
9 seed (2020 per Bracket Matrix)
below.500
9 seed
2 seed
2 seed
top 4 seed (2025 projected)

There will be some good years. More down years than the past.
But if I said this is our trajectory for the next 9 years would that be acceptable?

What do we have to do to get to their current level (not just the last 3 years), but over the last 9 years?

If you are not only going to be middle of the pick in P5 in terms of NIL spending power, you need a good brand or a good team identity. A team identity that will make players choose you, or that you can find players that are a good fit for value.
Unfortunately our brand has taken a hit. We still have brand power, but nowhere near like it was at its peak.

What is our idenity to attract players in the portal?
I feel when you get Shaka Smart as a coach you are automatically developing some sort of identity for your team. You can find players for value at that identity.



What is our identity right bow as a program? What do you think we can develop as an identity, that can get "fit" players at good values.

 

[two3zone]

So Marquette has beaten Georgia to get to 6-0. After its earlier win this week against Purdue, it is poised to enter the top 10 for the third year in a row.

It got me to thinking about Marquette as a comparable. 3 main questions
1) Is it a reasonable comparable
2) Would you be satisfied with their performance from 2017-2025
3) What do we need to get to that level success wise

Is it a reasonable comparable?
Like us, Marquette is in a conference well outside of its geographical setting.
Marquette has pretty good attendance and local following.
Marquette is not a state school.

In the NIL world many here say we can't compete with many schools NIL wise. I would assume Marquette doesn't have more (or much more) resources than us for their team (stand to be corrected)

Would their performance from 2017 to 2025 be satisfactory to you moving forward?
10 seed
NIT
5 seed
9 seed (2020 per Bracket Matrix)
below.500
9 seed
2 seed
2 seed
top 4 seed (2025 projected)

There will be some good years. More down years than the past.
But if I said this is our trajectory for the next 9 years would that be acceptable?

What do we have to do to get to their current level (not just the last 3 years), but over the last 9 years?

If you are not only going to be middle of the pick in P5 in terms of NIL spending power, you need a good brand. And a team identity that will make players choose you, or that you can find players that are a good fit for value.
Unfortunately our brand has taken a hit. We still have brand power, but nowhere near like it was at its peak.

What is our idenity to attract players in the portal?
I feel when you get Shaka Smart as a coach you are automatically developing some sort of identity for your team. You can find players for value at that identity.

What is our identity right bow as a program? What do you think we can develop as an identity, that can get "fit" players at good values.

I'd give my left nut, possibly both at this point, for their seeding in March, even with the the small warts.

I may make the sacrifice for 5 straight bubble years at this point.

 

[OCESIP]

At $3m he's a deal. Kenyon graduate.

 

[littlereg]

So Marquette has beaten Georgia to get to 6-0. After its earlier win this week against Purdue, it is poised to enter the top 10 for the third year in a row.

It got me to thinking about Marquette as a comparable. 3 main questions
1) Is it a reasonable comparable
2) Would you be satisfied with their performance from 2017-2025
3) What do we need to get to that level success wise

Is it a reasonable comparable?
Like us, Marquette is in a conference well outside of its geographical setting.
Marquette has pretty good attendance and local following.
Marquette is not a state school.

In the NIL world many here say we can't compete with many schools NIL wise. I would assume Marquette doesn't have more (or much more) resources than us for their team (stand to be corrected)

Would their performance from 2017 to 2025 be satisfactory to you moving forward?
10 seed
NIT
5 seed
9 seed (2020 per Bracket Matrix)
below.500
9 seed
2 seed
2 seed
top 4 seed (2025 projected)

There will be some good years. More down years than the past.
But if I said this is our trajectory for the next 9 years would that be acceptable?

What do we have to do to get to their current level (not just the last 3 years), but over the last 9 years?

If you are not only going to be middle of the pick in P5 in terms of NIL spending power, you need a good brand. And a team identity that will make players choose you, or that you can find players that are a good fit for value.
Unfortunately our brand has taken a hit. We still have brand power, but nowhere near like it was at its peak.

What is our idenity to attract players in the portal?
I feel when you get Shaka Smart as a coach you are automatically developing some sort of identity for your team. You can find players for value at that identity.

What is our identity right bow as a program? What do you think we can develop as an identity, that can get "fit" players at good values.

you aren’t exactly right on a lot of what the information on their program but I agree with your last point so so so much. We don’t have an identity at all.

their conference features four other teams besides themselves who are within their geographical setting. There’s 11 teams in the conference. Just because it’s called the big east doesn’t make it anymore “East” than it actually is. It’s 5 of 11 teams in the Midwest/North.

They have a great attendance and following, and lot of that has to do with being the focal university in the major city in their state. They share an nba arena with the bucks.

Marquette is I believe like top 6-8 in revenue and spending in the entire sport and a lot of that has to do with my previous point but also because they’re a basketball priority school. They don’t have a football program, and haven’t since the 70s I believe.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I can’t get my head around a scenario where it’s a wild dream to be Marquette and average a #5 seed. I know we’ve been there for a while, but putting a specific name/comparable to it just makes it hurt all the more.

Yeah, I’d give two3zone’s left nut for that. No question. As a stepping stone/transition period (“nine years”), hopefully, toward even better, though.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Remember when we curb stomped them on the way to the FF. Those were the good old days.

 

[littlereg]

Remember when we curb stomped them on the way to the FF. Those were the good old days.

Mfs couldn’t even score 40 and they had already been up against that exact zone prior in the season hahah

 

[two3zone]

So Marquette has beaten Georgia to get to 6-0. After its earlier win this week against Purdue, it is poised to enter the top 10 for the third year in a row.

It got me to thinking about Marquette as a comparable. 3 main questions
1) Is it a reasonable comparable
2) Would you be satisfied with their performance from 2017-2025
3) What do we need to get to that level success wise

Is it a reasonable comparable?
Like us, Marquette is in a conference well outside of its geographical setting.
Marquette has pretty good attendance and local following.
Marquette is not a state school.

In the NIL world many here say we can't compete with many schools NIL wise. I would assume Marquette doesn't have more (or much more) resources than us for their team (stand to be corrected)

Would their performance from 2017 to 2025 be satisfactory to you moving forward?
10 seed
NIT
5 seed
9 seed (2020 per Bracket Matrix)
below.500
9 seed
2 seed
2 seed
top 4 seed (2025 projected)

There will be some good years. More down years than the past.
But if I said this is our trajectory for the next 9 years would that be acceptable?

What do we have to do to get to their current level (not just the last 3 years), but over the last 9 years?

If you are not only going to be middle of the pick in P5 in terms of NIL spending power, you need a good brand or a good team identity. A team identity that will make players choose you, or that you can find players that are a good fit for value.
Unfortunately our brand has taken a hit. We still have brand power, but nowhere near like it was at its peak.

What is our idenity to attract players in the portal?
I feel when you get Shaka Smart as a coach you are automatically developing some sort of identity for your team. You can find players for value at that identity.



What is our identity right bow as a program? What do you think we can develop as an identity, that can get "fit" players at good values.

Our identity is punt two years and wait for a legacy to build us back up, at least that's what it seems like.

 

[two3zone]

Remember when we curb stomped them on the way to the FF. Those were the good old days.

There was almost a decade I didn't think we would lose a game at tip off.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There was almost a decade I didn't think we would lose a game at tip off.

There were decades when there Was only one team I was pessimistic about beating. UConn. They’d have three future NBA players and Calhoun.…

 

[two3zone]

There were decades when there Was only one team I was pessimistic about beating. UConn. They’d have three future NBA players and Calhoun.…

 

[M2MPrinciples]

It's important to note that they changed coaches midway through that run because their AD felt that no Big East titles and an 0–2 NCAAT record in 7 seasons with Wojo was unacceptable, even though they had winning seasons every year but his first and last. Everyone knows the ACC is a tougher animal but hopefully Wildhack's standards aren't too far off.

One of Shaka's greatest strengths at Marquette (with support from leadership) has been his ability to keep and develop players. Kolek could've looked for a bigger bag after his junior year but he stayed and became an All-American. Kam Jones is a 4-year guy who is in line to have the best season anyone at Marquette has had since D-Wade, with a shot to outperform it. Oso Ighodaro played like 35 minutes his freshman year but he stayed 4 years and got drafted. O-Max Prosper was a bit player his freshman year at Clemson but Shaka grabbed him and turned him into a draft pick too.

You have to get good guys who want to play for you and want to get pushed. Shaka didn't work at Texas because the guys the boosters and AD wanted him to get with their resources weren't the types who made him a success at VCU. We obviously didn't have that last season. Do we now? It's too soon to tell and IMO it's a little unfair to expect Red to have fleshed out an identity that he can go out and pitch on the recruiting trail with any evidence. We know he can get talent.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'd give my left nut, possibly both at this point, for their seeding in March, even with the the small warts.

I may make the sacrifice for 5 straight bubble years at this point.

You have two left nuts?

 

[two3zone]

You have two left nuts?

Both left of my right leg?

 

[littlereg]

It's important to note that they changed coaches midway through that run because their AD felt that no Big East titles and an 0–2 NCAAT record in 7 seasons with Wojo was unacceptable, even though they had winning seasons every year but his first and last. Everyone knows the ACC is a tougher animal but hopefully Wildhack's standards aren't too far off.

One of Shaka's greatest strengths at Marquette (with support from leadership) has been his ability to keep and develop players. Kolek could've looked for a bigger bag after his junior year but he stayed and became an All-American. Kam Jones is a 4-year guy who is in line to have the best season anyone at Marquette has had since D-Wade, with a shot to outperform it. Oso Ighodaro played like 35 minutes his freshman year but he stayed 4 years and got drafted. O-Max Prosper was a bit player his freshman year at Clemson but Shaka grabbed him and turned him into a draft pick too.

You have to get good guys who want to play for you and want to get pushed. Shaka didn't work at Texas because the guys the boosters and AD wanted him to get with their resources weren't the types who made him a success at VCU. We obviously didn't have that last season. Do we now? It's too soon to tell and IMO it's a little unfair to expect Red to have fleshed out an identity that he can go out and pitch on the recruiting trail with any evidence. We know he can get talent.

You nailed it with the everything about Shaka.

you can’t develop the system and identity you want if you can’t get or aren’t given the players you need to fit said system. On the flipside, I feel like that identity should be known from the start or fairly early. If you don’t have a strong solid confidence in what you’re trying to do or build how do you expect your pupils to do the same and learn that from you? Weve heard in the past red wants to RUN. But have we done that, and to much success thus far in a season and 5 games? Now obviously one factor has by the lack of a talented true lead guard, but again that goes back to the first point of not getting the pieces you need to fit your system.

There’s so much that goes into it besides this one factor but I think the discourse from both sides makes sense. It’s fair to be concerned and I also think it’s fair to have think we need to have patience as well.

 

[two3zone]

You nailed it with the everything about Shaka.

you can’t develop the system and identity you want if you can’t get or aren’t given the players you need to fit said system. On the flipside, I feel like that identity should be known from the start or fairly early. If you don’t have a strong solid confidence in what you’re trying to do or build how do you expect your pupils to do the same and learn that from you? Weve heard in the past red wants to RUN. But have we done that, and to much success thus far in a season and 5 games? Now obviously one factor has by the lack of a talented true lead guard, but again that goes back to the first point of not getting the pieces you need to fit your system.

There’s so much that goes into it besides this one factor but I think the discourse from both sides makes sense. It’s fair to be concerned and I also think it’s fair to have think we need to have patience as well.

It's been two years and all I've heard is we want to run. So we got a slow center last year and a slower center this year.

I'll believe it when the roster is built accordingly.

 

[jncuse]

I have no problem using this to lament about our recent past.

But I was really using this as a comp for looking forward.

Appreciate that many seemed to find a common ground on my point on identity. It’s too early to outright rip Red in this regard as it’s only year 2, but progress certainly has to be made soon. Especially if we are a middle “payroll” school in terms of P4.

 

[littlereg]

It's been two years and all I've heard is we want to run. So we got a slow center last year and a slower center this year.

I'll believe it when the roster is built accordingly.

right there with ya

 

[wiCuse]

So Marquette has beaten Georgia to get to 6-0. After its earlier win this week against Purdue, it is poised to enter the top 10 for the third year in a row.

It got me to thinking about Marquette as a comparable. 3 main questions
1) Is it a reasonable comparable
2) Would you be satisfied with their performance from 2017-2025
3) What do we need to get to that level success wise

Is it a reasonable comparable?
Like us, Marquette is in a conference well outside of its geographical setting.
Marquette has pretty good attendance and local following.
Marquette is not a state school.

In the NIL world many here say we can't compete with many schools NIL wise. I would assume Marquette doesn't have more (or much more) resources than us for their team (stand to be corrected)

Would their performance from 2017 to 2025 be satisfactory to you moving forward?
10 seed
NIT
5 seed
9 seed (2020 per Bracket Matrix)
below.500
9 seed
2 seed
2 seed
top 4 seed (2025 projected)

There will be some good years. More down years than the past.
But if I said this is our trajectory for the next 9 years would that be acceptable?

What do we have to do to get to their current level (not just the last 3 years), but over the last 9 years?

If you are not only going to be middle of the pick in P5 in terms of NIL spending power, you need a good brand or a good team identity. A team identity that will make players choose you, or that you can find players that are a good fit for value.
Unfortunately our brand has taken a hit. We still have brand power, but nowhere near like it was at its peak.

What is our idenity to attract players in the portal?
I feel when you get Shaka Smart as a coach you are automatically developing some sort of identity for your team. You can find players for value at that identity.



What is our identity right bow as a program? What do you think we can develop as an identity, that can get "fit" players at good values.

I think you can compare SU to Marquette. However, this is another example of how far Syracuse has fallen. Marquette isn't even the most popular team in Wisconsin. Syracuse still has a tremendous brand. Please keep in mind that Marquette spends a lot of money on their basketball program (I believe top 10 in the country), which is easy to do when you do not have football and many other sports that Syracuse has.

Here's the difference, Shaka win or lose always has a style and identity something that Red cannot say. We were always known for the zone, which was played very well until the last few years under JB. Red's team doesn't do one thing well. We need discipline along with an identity if we'll ever have sustained success under Red.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Red's team doesn't do one thing well.

We are 4th nationally in defensive rebounding, 41st in holding onto the ball and in the top 15% of teams in adjusted offensive efficiency.

There are legit reasons to be skeptical of Red, you don't have to make things up or be dramatic.

 

[phil77]

I would take Shaka Smart today

 

[NineOneSeven]

Right now Marquette is so beyond us, it’s almost impossible to believe

 

[Newhouser]

From Buzz to Shaka the biggest difference in them from us - they appear to play a ton harder and are a ton better instructed on the defensive end.