Mcnabb on Shafer | Syracusefan.com

Mcnabb on Shafer

I was interested in the Hall of Fame discussion. McNabb said all the right things but it has to be on his mind and will be moreso as contemporaries get inducted and then even some guys that followed him. We all know what Floyd Little and Art Monk went through. I'm not sure what the hold-up was with Floyd. For Art it was apparently that one guy- Peter King- didn't want him in. Mike Piazza just failed to make the baseball HOF, apparenlty because someone said he'd seen pimples on his back and that's supposed to be an indicator of steroids. It doesn't take much. And when you consider that McNabb, despite seeming to be a nice, hard-working guy always seemed to be the center of some controversy I have a feeling this this quest will be straight uphill.

Before the interview they were comparing McNabb's career numbers to Jim Kelly's and they were basically the same except McNabb had fewer interceptions. Donovan even had the same number of playoff wins. of course McNabb only made it to one Super Bowl and that will be one of the things they will talk about. What they won't talk about is that, besides Terrell Owens, they never surrounded him with much receiving talent. The one year he had Owen and TO was interested, Donovan became the first NFL QB with 30+ TDs and less than 10 interceptions. Imagine his numbers, (and how many Super Bowls he'd have gotten to) if he wad the type of receivers Manning and Brady had- or even Kelly had.

McNabb: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm

Kelly: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00.htm
 
He won't get in the HoF. Kelly did have similar numbers but Kelly is like Lynn Swann for quarterbacks. They both (off of numbers) don't exactly belong but Super Bowl popularity played a major role in getting them in. Add in the fact that there is a massive backlog of people trying to get in right now, and it doesn't bode well for McNabb. He might sneak in eventually but I wouldn't hold my breath. The last 2 years have done a lot to hurt the perception of his overall game, whether that is right or wrong is irrelevant.
 
gocraz4dasu said:
He won't get in the HoF. Kelly did have similar numbers but Kelly is like Lynn Swann for quarterbacks. They both (off of numbers) don't exactly belong but Super Bowl popularity played a major role in getting them in. Add in the fact that there is a massive backlog of people trying to get in right now, and it doesn't bode well for McNabb. He might sneak in eventually but I wouldn't hold my breath. The last 2 years have done a lot to hurt the perception of his overall game, whether that is right or wrong is irrelevant.
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McNabb's passing numbers are a little better than Kelly's but his ability to run the ball and make something from broken plays is what really made him a better player. He remains one of the best to ever play the position from that perspective.

McNabb is going to get into the HOF. The disappointing ending to his career is going to delay things but 10 or 15 years down the road, he will be inducted.
 
McNabb will not go to the HOF...Kelly played in a different era, comparing guys from different times in the NFL doesn't work.

There are a whole stack of guys now people will make the argument for...Brees, Brady, Mannings 1 and 1A (1a is the older one), Rogers, Big Ben...

He was a very good player, not transcendent.
 
sutomcat said:
McNabb's passing numbers are a little better than Kelly's but his ability to run the ball and make something from broken plays is what really made him a better player. He remains one of the best to ever play the position from that perspective.

McNabb is going to get into the HOF. The disappointing ending to his career is going to delay things but 10 or 15 years down the road, he will be inducted.
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Had he not rushed himself back from injury and lost his ability to run from that point forward he may be a no brainer HOF selection as well as have super bowl rings. I'm curious how close to 100% his leg ever healed after coming back way too early since he never really ran effectively again.
 
Two things.

1. The success he had under the pressure of playing in philly should count for something. That town is relentless.
2. Has McNabb ever commented on the lack of Alumni inclusion by Marrone before. I mean the guy is one of our flagship football players, potential hall of famer, on the board of trustees and even he didn't feel welcome at the school? What.
 
"Talking to him, the open door policy, one that I enjoy, I think we got away from that for a couple years where the door just wasn't open for the alums to come in and try to help these young guys out."
 
I don't think his last two years will hurt him. Who's going to remember 2010 and 2011 in 2025?

I was always a McNabb fan and I think he really gets a bad rap (Terrell Owens totally destroyed his public perception and started his career on a downward spiral). He's a borderline Hall of Famer, probably not one, but could get in as one of those guys that start getting a ton of support late in their candidacy.
 
He deserves to get in, especially when you consider that the moron that is Andy Reid only ever gave him Brian Westbrook and a single year of TO for help. I think what will hurt him are his contemporaries being Manning and Brady and all of the guys that are putting up huge numbers now.
 
sufandu said:
He deserves to get in, especially when you consider that the moron that is Andy Reid only ever gave him Brian Westbrook and a single year of TO for help. I think what will hurt him are his contemporaries being Manning and Brady and all of the guys that are putting up huge numbers now.
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Truer words were never written! Donovan never got the support he deserved from the fans or the front office in Philly. F the Eagles! (I recently resigned from being a life-long Eagles fan--they can keep Chip the Cheat Kelly and his dog-murdering QB.)
 
Brian Orange said:
I don't think his last two years will hurt him. Who's going to remember 2010 and 2011 in 2025?

I was always a McNabb fan and I think he really gets a bad rap (Terrell Owens totally destroyed his public perception and started his career on a downward spiral). He's a borderline Hall of Famer, probably not one, but could get in as one of those guys that start getting a ton of support late in their candidacy.
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I agree the way his career ended should not be a factor. Who is prevented from getting into the Hall because of how his career ended, (unless it was a scandal)? Who gets into the Hall of Fame because of the way it ended? (Maybe Elway). If the guy was still performing great, it wouldn't have been the end of his career.

But considering some of the strange reasons given for not putting someone in the HOF and the equally strange controversies that plagued McNabb during his career, who knows?
 
CusefanATL said:
"Talking to him, the open door policy, one that I enjoy, I think we got away from that for a couple years where the door just wasn't open for the alums to come in and try to help these young guys out."
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I couldn't care less about the HOF discussion, but this is rather noteworthy, right?

Did Marrone's slow-burning emotional meltdown that started in November of 2010 extend to keeping alums away?

So freakin' strange.
 
sufandu said:
He deserves to get in, especially when you consider that the moron that is Andy Reid only ever gave him Brian Westbrook and a single year of TO for help. I think what will hurt him are his contemporaries being Manning and Brady and all of the guys that are putting up huge numbers now.
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You mean the Eagles shouldn't have constructed their offense around Brian "Questionable" Westbrook?

Puh shaw, I say.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
You mean the Eagles shouldn't have constructed their offense around Brian "Questionable" Westbrook?

Puh shaw, I say.
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Yes, aka Brian "I'll catch swing passes all day but never give you a real running game" Westbrook.
 
sutomcat said:
McNabb's passing numbers are a little better than Kelly's but his ability to run the ball and make something from broken plays is what really made him a better player. He remains one of the best to ever play the position from that perspective.

McNabb is going to get into the HOF. The disappointing ending to his career is going to delay things but 10 or 15 years down the road, he will be inducted.
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His running ability really helped pave the way for black quarterbacks to be utilized like that, especially Vick. But Randall Cunningham lead the charge before Donovan did. I'd love for him to get the nod and be accepted into the Hall of Fame but the lack of a Super Bowl win hurts his chances. I think of Kelly as more of the exception to the rule largely because he made the Super Bowl 4 times. The best thing McNabb has going for him is that Brett Favre and likely Kurt Warner are the only recently retired quarterbacks guaranteed to get into the Hall. There is Steve McNair but I think McNabb is above him, but McNair is eligible in 2015 (I think). Then you have Phil Simms, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason, Ken Stabler etc. whom I'm not sure will ever get in the Hall of Fame. Is McNabb THAT much better than any of them to get him in? I'm not sure. Hist stats may be a bit above some of theirs but not by that much.


xc84 said:
Good hedge.
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Well, I never thought Art Monk would slide in so you can never be too sure. (ecstatic he got in though)
 
gocraz4dasu said:
The best thing McNabb has going for him is that Brett Favre and likely Kurt Warner are the only recently retired quarterbacks guaranteed to get into the Hall.
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Got to remember, people have discussed Warner at length, and people aren't even sure that he is HOF worthy. Those years at the end of his Rams tenure where he was injured weren't to good and then he went to the Giants and was awful. Look at his stats, he had 3 great years in St Louis before only playing 9 games in 2 years with a total of 4 td and 12 int. Then he went to the giants and played 10 games throwing 6 td and 4 picks. He then went to the cardinals and it wasn't until his third year where he started to play well. His first two years he played a total of 16 games, with 3,100 yards, 17 td, and 14 picks. His last three years were pretty solid, but I don't see that as HOF worthy. The HOF is for transcendent players, and as much as I love McNabb, I don't think his chances are very good. He ultimately will be graded against Brady, Manning, and Favre. Those are transcendent players. I bleed Orange, but if he didnt graduate and lead Syracuse like he did this wouldn't even be a discussion. I know he didnt have great receivers, but its eye opening that he never had a 4,000 yard season in a passing offense. Also I know QB rating is not a great, but it is generally a good indicator of a QB. McNabb was over 100 once in 13 years, and had a career average of 85.6. Even Warner, with all those bad years had an average QB rating of 93.7 over 12 years.
 
Clev04 said:
Got to remember, people have discussed Warner at length, and people aren't even sure that he is HOF worthy. Those years at the end of his Rams tenure where he was injured weren't to good and then he went to the Giants and was awful. Look at his stats, he had 3 great years in St Louis before only playing 9 games in 2 years with a total of 4 td and 12 int. Then he went to the giants and played 10 games throwing 6 td and 4 picks. He then went to the cardinals and it wasn't until his third year where he started to play well. His first two years he played a total of 16 games, with 3,100 yards, 17 td, and 14 picks. His last three years were pretty solid, but I don't see that as HOF worthy. The HOF is for transcendent players, and as much as I love McNabb, I don't think his chances are very good. He ultimately will be graded against Brady, Manning, and Favre. Those are transcendent players. I bleed Orange, but if he didnt graduate and lead Syracuse like he did this wouldn't even be a discussion. I know he didnt have great receivers, but its eye opening that he never had a 4,000 yard season in a passing offense. Also I know QB rating is not a great, but it is generally a good indicator of a QB. McNabb was over 100 once in 13 years, and had a career average of 85.6. Even Warner, with all those bad years had an average QB rating of 93.7 over 12 years.
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I personally would have Warner in the HoF. The Greatest Show on Turf was a magical offense. The '07 Pats had an offense comparable to it but it was a one shot year and lacked the balance that the Rams offered due to Marshall Faulk's insanse ability to run the ball and also receive out of the backfield. Warner then turned the Cardinals into a formidable side and lead them to the Super Bowl where things didn't go his way but once Warner left, the Cardinals haven't amounted to squat since. Leinart and Kolb are laughably bad quarterbacks though. I just think those GSOT days with the Rams were 'transcendent' enough to put him in due to the unreal numbers they put up and inability of anyone to really replicated it (much to Mike Martz's dismay). They were the most exciting offense since Air Coryell (another snub in my opinion).

I agree with your McNabb assessment
 
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