MCW and Dion > Scoop and Triche | Syracusefan.com

MCW and Dion > Scoop and Triche

OrangeCrush22

All Conference
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
3,440
Like
2,524
Carter-Williams and Waiters need to start. They have done so much better than Scoop and Triche.

What's a SG suppose to do? Be a scorer. Dion is a much better scorer than Triche.

What's a PG suppose to do? Distribute the ball and play good defense. MCW plays better defense than Scoop. Passing is a wash. As Scoop simply sucks at it, and MCW is still learning.
 

AlaskaSU

Build a dorm, burn the locker rm. upgrade the dome
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,022
Like
4,396
He pretty much led the BE in assists.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
19,973
Like
36,720
MCW plays better defense than Scoop. Passing is a wash. As Scoop simply sucks at it, and MCW is still learning.

Is that why Boeheim subbed out Carter-Williams for Scoop on Fordham's final possession with 16 seconds left in the first half? For Scoop's inferior defense.

This is not a post that demonstrates any understanding about what's happening on the basketball court.
 

IthacaMatt

Old Timer / Unofficial Contributor for 25+ years
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,254
Like
25,284
If Christmas starts, I think you've got to have Dion out there with him instead of Triche. I think Triche is just not the offensive player that Dion is. Everyone who doubts this will be sold by Christmas. But I don't think Dion will start. He's going to have to be happy being a 15 point scorer off the bench this season.

Fair is a very good player, and although he may not be the rebounder that Christmas is, and Christmas looks like a real contributor, if we play Triche AND Christmas in the starting lineup, we risk falling behind early in games if Brandon isn't scoring and is feeling out the game. So I think J.B. has to start Fair. We risk too many slow starts on offense otherwise.

I think Brandon pairs better with C.J. Fair, and we saw Brandon dogging the defensive boards a few times today when he happened to be paired with Fair. That pair works better together.

Another pairing I like is Christmas with Keita. Christmas showed an awareness of posting up on offense, and provides some nice bulk alongside Keita. I like Fair paired with Melo.

This would be my starting line up right now, based on what I've seen in these 3 games:

C: Melo
PF: Fair
SF: Joseph
SG: Triche
PG: Jardine

First in depends on who is playing best and worst after 4 to 6 minutes - I like bringing in pairs of guys, with the depth on this team. It takes pressure off younger players, and it doesn't necessarily single out one guy who's coming out. I think that typically, though, if you're going to see a starting lineup with Fair & Joseph at F, you're likely to see a sub add rebounding, so I see Christmas for Fair at the first break.

First rotation in (15 minutes left in 1st half):

Christmas & Waiters for Fair & Triche

leaves on the floor:

C: Melo
PF: Christmas
SF: Joseph
SG: Waiters
PG: Jardine

So this would be the time to bring in Dion for that "take charge" scoring threat in the offense. This allows him to settle in with Kris and Scoop on the floor, so he doesn't have to doo too much right away.

Sometime around here, you would expect Melo to pick up a second foul. Whenever that happens, Keita comes in. If that hasn't happened yet, next subs, after about 4 more minutes (~ 10 minute point in 1st half):

Keita, MCW & Fair for Melo, Scoop & Joseph

leaves on the floor:

C: Keita
PF: Christmas
SF: Fair
SG: Waiters
PG: MCW

This allows you to give Kris some rest for his knees early in the first half, after about 8-10 minutes. Dion has been on the floor for a few minutes and settled in, so he takes pressure off MCW and has Fair out on the wing and running lanes.

After about 4 more minutes (6 minutes left in half):

Jardine, Joseph & Triche back in for Waiters, Fair and MCW

If Melo doesn't have 2 fouls, bring him back in, too, to close out the half, or at least play as long as he can until he gets into foul trouble.

and you close out the first half with:

C: Melo / Keita (depending on Melo's foul situation)
PF: Christmas
SF: Joseph
SG: Triche
PG: Jardine

Theoretically, the 3 steady guys, and the beefy guy at PF, since players will be getting a little winded toward halftime, and can get worn down.

That's how I look at it, anyway.
 

OrangeCrush22

All Conference
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
3,440
Like
2,524
Is that why Boeheim subbed out Carter-Williams for Scoop on Fordham's final possession with 16 seconds left in the first half? For Scoop's inferior defense.

This is not a post that demonstrates any understanding about what's happening on the basketball court.

MCW plays much better zone defense than Scoop.
 

Ghost

Gentleman of the Night
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
22,655
Like
34,283
And after next game when BT hits a couple of the threes he missed today, and Dion misses a couple of threes he hit today, we will inevitably hear just the opposite (Scoop and Triche > MCW and Dion). It's going to be a fun year!

 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
19,973
Like
36,720
And after next game when BT hits a couple of the threes he missed today, and Dion misses a couple of threes he hit today, we will inevitably hear just the opposite (Scoop and Triche > MCW and Dion). It's going to be a fun year!

This is going to be the rare season when the possibility of a board meltdown isn't just limited to nights when we lose. There's some crazy talk out there.

Carter-Williams a better zone defender than Scoop? That's rich. I'm sure Boeheim wanted Scoop in for the last defensive possession of the half so Fordham could keep things close.
 

OrlandoCuse

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
9,131
Like
22,403
Right now, Dion is our best guard. The other three are debatable.

I'm concerned with how Triche is playing right now. Hasn't seemed to hit his stride yet this year.

I'd like to see Dion and Scoop on the floor at the same time, for a different look. I don't think JB has tried that combo yet.

I hope Brandon snaps out of whatever funk he seems to be in.
 

SUintheVille

Former 'Blue Light Special' Announcer
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
2,792
Like
3,932
And after next game when BT hits a couple of the threes he missed today, and Dion misses a couple of threes he hit today, we will inevitably hear just the opposite (Scoop and Triche > MCW and Dion). It's going to be a fun year!

Exactly. JB doesn't change his established starters very often. BT and Scoop will start for most if not the whole season. However, MCW and DW will play lots of minutes. The hot hand and good D gives the PT.
 

Cuse117

Walk On
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
105
Like
73
dude MCW could barely handle the pressure of fordham guards when handling the rock... imagine the big east.
 

The General

2nd String
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
600
Like
478
Good lord.

MCW is being groomed for the future. He'll be very fortunate to get 10-12 mins per game once big east play starts. He's the future. The idea that he should start is lunacy. FYI, he didn't get pulled for Scoop for defensive purposes with :16 left. He got pulled cause he shot with :16 left.

Waiters may steal quite a few minutes from Triche and Scoop. It will basically be a 3 man backcourt. Waiters can run some point. So what if he's score first? He's damn good. But he is an ideal 6th man. Instant O off bench, just what u want.

I did enjoy him setting Triche up for a 3 tonight after driving. Triche is what he is. And should start.
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
19,973
Like
36,720
FYI, he didn't get pulled for Scoop for defensive purposes with :16 left. He got pulled cause he shot with :16 left.

I won't flat-out contradict that, because of course I don't know for a fact why they were swapped. But Boeheim's usually perfectly comfortable waiting 16 seconds before pointing out that error to the freshman.

Looked to me like he wanted to play Dion up and have Scoop - our best high-post defender - out there for the last play. A little crunch-time practice. And it worked well.

I was disappointed in Scoop's play on offense today, but he was great at the other end and has become very good at dropping down and defending the high post (something that freshman tend to do very poorly).
 

IthacaMatt

Old Timer / Unofficial Contributor for 25+ years
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,254
Like
25,284
Right now, Dion is our best guard. The other three are debatable.

I'm concerned with how Triche is playing right now. Hasn't seemed to hit his stride yet this year.

I'd like to see Dion and Scoop on the floor at the same time, for a different look. I don't think JB has tried that combo yet.

I hope Brandon snaps out of whatever funk he seems to be in.

Brandon started really poorly last year, and was averaging only 6 PPG through 11 games. Then he hit a very productive streak at the beginning of Big East play and played well for about a month or so. He did finish the season at 11 PPG after that dreadful start. But he faded down the stretch of the season again fo the second year in a row. But he is in the best shape of his life this season. He just needs to loosen up out there. He plays as tight as a virgin in a sorority house.

I think JB will continue to start him because he's a great glue guy, but he has to cut down on mistakes, and *play* like a reliable player (i.e. avoid so many stupid charges and stop forcing your shot).
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
19,973
Like
36,720
I think JB will continue to start him because he's a great glue guy, but he has to cut down on mistakes, and *play* like a reliable player (i.e. avoid so many stupid charges and stop forcing your shot).

And, to cure his newest ailment, remember the John Beilein advice for how to shoot a jumper: Like you're shooting out of a telephone booth.

He's never going to recover his 2010 40% form with that weird leaning thing he has going on with his threes.
 

stuckinbig11

All Conference
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,926
Like
5,979
Carter-Williams and Waiters need to start. They have done so much better than Scoop and Triche.

What's a SG suppose to do? Be a scorer. Dion is a much better scorer than Triche.

What's a PG suppose to do? Distribute the ball and play good defense. MCW plays better defense than Scoop. Passing is a wash. As Scoop simply sucks at it, and MCW is still learning.
MCW will be good, but he has a lot to learn. No way he starts.
 

arbitragegls

All Conference
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,340
Like
1,753
...so 9 pts, 6 rebounds, 3 assts and probably the best zone defender gets no credit...give me a break...BT did not have a good game and he ate Scoops lunch
 

OttoMets

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
19,973
Like
36,720
...so 9 pts, 6 rebounds, 3 assts and probably the best zone defender gets no credit...give me a break...BT did not have a good game and he ate Scoops lunch

Scoop and Triche are not competing with one another.
 

orange03

Starter
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,085
Like
263
Right now, Dion is our best guard. The other three are debatable.

I'm concerned with how Triche is playing right now. Hasn't seemed to hit his stride yet this year.

I'd like to see Dion and Scoop on the floor at the same time, for a different look. I don't think JB has tried that combo yet.

I hope Brandon snaps out of whatever funk he seems to be in.

I've been in the camp that Dion is our best guard and should be a starter for awhile now. That said, Triche "hasn't hit his stride yet this year"?? It was the first game of the year.
 

PoppyHart

All American
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
5,592
Like
4,254
It was painfully obvious that MCW got yanked with .16 left for not holding for one.
 

OrlandoCuse

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
9,131
Like
22,403
I've been in the camp that Dion is our best guard and should be a starter for awhile now. That said, Triche "hasn't hit his stride yet this year"?? It was the first game of the year.

He hasn't played up to his potential (for any given period of time, short or long) in this game as well as the two exhibition games.

I've been watching enough of Triche for the past three years to know that he isn't playing up to his full potential right now.
 

orange03

Starter
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,085
Like
263
He hasn't played up to his potential (for any given period of time, short or long) in this game as well as the two exhibition games.

I've been watching enough of Triche for the past three years to know that he isn't playing up to his full potential right now.

I'm not so sure his potential is all that high. He isn't that good at any one thing-- he's an average at best ball handler, and inconsistent shooter, and he doesn't create off the bounce at all. How he became so revered is beyond me. I'm not trying to knock the kid, he's a solid ball player but some want him to become the go to guy?
 

Zelda Zonk

2022 Iggy Winner: ACC Tourney Record
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
9,441
Like
21,643
I understand the frequent frustrations with Scoop and Brandon. But, when real competition arrives, those two guys seem to rise to the level. How many times last year - when we were really struggling against a BE opponent - did Scoop hit a big shot to start us off? I'm specifically recalling the game at Pitt, when we were being blown out, and everyone in Orange looked completely skurred. Scoop had the stones to knock down a three, and from there, we took off and made our own run.

While Dion may be more athletic/explosive/whatever you want to call it - when it comes down to it, i want Scoop in the game.

Triche... I don't know sometimes. He's got the capacity to hold the starter's position. But, in my mind, if you swapped the Wild Card (Dion), i think it would be an 'even' deal. Scoop + Triche equals Scoop + Dion... over the long haul. That's factoring in Triche's steady/heady play, versus Dion's potential for big moments/plays. You've got plusses and minuses either way.

MCW may look nice now - early, against nobodies. But, when the big kids are playing and muscling him, his effectiveness will be diminished. He's not Lamb.
 

OrlandoCuse

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
9,131
Like
22,403
I'm not so sure his potential is all that high. He isn't that good at any one thing-- he's an average at best ball handler, and inconsistent shooter, and he doesn't create off the bounce at all. How he became so revered is beyond me. I'm not trying to knock the kid, he's a solid ball player but some want him to become the go to guy?
I'm probably just expecting more out of him. It's his third year starting. He's the only remaining starter from our #1 ranked team of two years ago. He has more starts under his belt than anyone else on the team.

He hasn't stepped up the way I've expected him to so far.
 

orangefan13

Hall of Fame
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
8,089
Like
5,270
Dion had a rough first game but good second and third ones. Triche has had three rough games. Hes starting out real slow.

In my opinion.
Against man to man defense that doesn't cheat Dion is our best guard hands down. Against man to man defense that cheats some, zone, box and one or whatever the verdict is still out.
Dion is our best transition guard as well.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
158,640
Messages
4,242,886
Members
5,571
Latest member
lspingler

Online statistics

Members online
178
Guests online
516
Total visitors
694




Top Bottom