Can't really argue that logic. If you beat the teams you didn't beat... you'd be a national champion i suppose.
Been there, done that. I called it "Candy and Nuts". Here it is, updated:
In doing my “Ides of March” post I remembered something that I used to think about a lot back in the 80’s. In 1977 we lost to North Carolina-Charlotte and they went to the Final Four. In 1979 we lost to Penn and they went to the Final Four. In 1980, we lost to Iowa, who went to the Final Four. In 1983 we lost to Virginia, who went to the Final Four. All those games were upsets, meaning that whatever the team that beat us did, we ought to have been able to do as well. If we’d just done what the teams that beat us did, we’d have been to four Final Fours in JB’s first seven years!
Just as a fantasy, what if we had done what the teams that beat us did over the years? And just how close did we come to beating those teams, such that we might have been able to travel their road?
1977: We didn’t come close to beating UNCC: 59-81, largely due to the fact that their guards were a half a foot taller than ours, so this one is a leap. Detroit’s loud-mouthed coach, Dick Vitale, had said this game didn’t matter as the winner of the Detroit-Michigan game in the other half of the bracket was on their way to the Final Four. It wasn’t Dick, whose team lost to Michigan. But then the 49ers took the Wolverines, 75-68. That sent them to Atlanta where they lost to eventual national champion Marquette, 51-49 on a lay-up at the buzzer by Jerome Whitehead.
Fantasy Result: MADE FINAL FOUR
1978: We lost to Western Kentucky on Billy Packer’s intervention with the refs, 86-87. Magic Johnson’s Michigan State team, whom we’d beaten in the finals of the first Carrier Classic three months before, leveled the Hilltoppers, 90-69 in the next round.
Fantasy Result: SWEET SIXTEEN
1979: We lost to Pennsylvania, 76-84 in the Sweet 16. The Quakers, who had upset UNC in the round of 32, then knocked off St. John’s in the regional finals, 64-62, before running into our old friends, Magic Johnson and the Spartans in the Final Four in Salt Lake City. They got the Western Kentucky treatment, 101-67 and the Spartan regulars got plenty of rest for their confrontation with undefeated Indiana State and Larry Bird in the finals.
Fantasy Result: FINAL FOUR
1980: Our only #1 seed seemed to be headed for a win over Lute Olson’s Iowa team in the Sweet 16 when JB slapped on a press which the Hawkeyes ran right through to win 77-88. They then beat our nemesis, Georgetown, (who had “closed Manley Field House” a month before and then beaten us in the finals of the first ever BET), 81-80 in the regional finals, (wouldn’t that have been fun), before losing to eventual national champion Louisville, 80-72 in the Final Four in Indianapolis.
Fantasy Result: FINAL FOUR
1981: We had a lousy regular season at 15-11, (look at how we gripped about going 23-8 this year), but the BET was in the Carrier Dome for the only time ever and we won it. But the NCAA hadn’t issued an automatic bid to the BET winner yet and didn’t pick SU so we wound up in the NIT and won our way to the title game, (it meant something then: that’s when this community really got into SU basketball at the Dome, which had the loudest crowds I’ve ever heard). We were expected to cap it off with a win over Tulsa in the Finals but the refs fouled out 4/5 of our starting line-up down the stretch, (after Nolan Richardson had spent a time-out with them instead of his players). They forgot to foul out Eric Santifer who scored a career high 29 points to send it into overtime but we lost there, 84-86.
Fantasy Result: WE WIN THE NIT (when it still meant something).
1982: JB’s worst season. Leo Rautins gets hurt and misses 7 games, (I know, “no excuses”) to finish 15-11 again. This time they blow a 12 point lead to lose to BC, (for the third time that year), in the first round of the BET in Hartford. Back in the Dome for the NIT where we beat St. Peters in the opener. But no magical run this year as Bradley comes in and beats us 95-81. It’s quite a stretch but the Braves did go on to win the NIT that year, so…
Fantasy Result: WE WIN THE NIT
1983: All we have to do is beat Ohio State, whom we’d beaten 91-85 in the Dome in December, just after our legendary victory over Phi Slama Jama, who wouldn’t lose again until Lorenzo Charles’ famous dunk, in the round of 32 and we’d be playing in the Eastern Regionals in the Dome. Sorry. A balding center named Granville “Granny” Waiters slammed in a couple of late follow shots and we got to watch the Buckeyes lose to Michael Jordan’s UNC team, 64-51.
Fantasy Result: SWEET SIXTEEN
1984: The Pearl’s first year. We have a fine regular season, going 12-4 in the Big east and finishing 2nd to the Hoyas and then losing to them in OT in the Big East Finals, (the Michael Graham game). It gets us a 3 seed in the NCAAs and we beat VCU in the round to 32 to be matched with Virginia, a team rebuilding after losing Ralph Sampson. The Cavaliers totally stink up the joint, playing a decent five minutes just after the half and that’s about it. We totally stink up the joint for 40 minutes and lose, 55-63. Indiana and Steve Alford end Michael Jordan’s college career with a 72-68 upset but then lose to the Cavs, 50-48 in the regional final. Virginia goes on to Seattle, where they lose to Houston, 49-47 in OT. If they’d won that game, why’d have played Georgetown for the national title. Imagine a Syracuse-Georgetown game for the national championship! Instead…
Fantasy Result: THE FINAL FOUR.
1985: I remember everybody down in the dumps because we lost to Georgia Tech, a 2 seed, 53-70. It wasn’t an upset, folks! (We were a 7 seed.) They went to a regional final before losing to the Hoyas, who were the #1 seed. There were no upsets in that regional at all. The higher seed won all 15 games.
Fantasy result: ELITE EIGHT
1986: Thanks to the refs, who sent Navy to the line 54 times, and Raf Addison who, in his last game, 18 points short of Dave Bing’s school scoring record, played 33 minutes and never attempted a shot, we lose to “The Admiral”, David Robinson, 85-97.T they go on to beat our old friends at Cleveland State, (who had knocked off Bobby Knight’s Indiana team), 71-70, and the lose to Coach K’s first really good Duke in the regional finals, 71-50.
Fantasy result: ELITE EIGHT.
1987: If Howie Triche and Derrick Coleman just make their free throws, it doesn’t matter what Keith Smart does. 73-74.
Fantasy Result: NATIONAL CHAMPION.
1988: The Image I will always have is of flu-ridden Sherman Douglas lying on the floor during time-outs as we lose to an Atlantic 10 team, Rhode Island, 94-97. The Rams then lost to Duke, 72-73 in the Sweet 16. Duke went on to lose to eventual champion Kansas in the Final Four, 59-66.
Fantasy Result: SWEET SIXTEEN.
1989: Maybe our best team loses to Illinois, 86-89 in the regional final as Sherman Douglas ends his career watching the
other team jam in a series of alley-oops. The Illini lost to eventual champion Michigan, 81-83 in the national semi-finals in Seattle, 81-83. Michigan, (who had twice lost to Illinois by a total of 28 points during the regular season), goes on to beat Seton Hall, (
Seton Hall???) in OT, 80-79 for the national title. Man, we were close that year.
Fantasy Result: FINAL FOUR
1990
: Tony Scott blows any chance of beating Minnesota in the Sweet 16 with an ill-advised 30 footer and a bad turnover as we go down, 75-82 in the Sweet 16. The Gophers then lost the regional final to Georgia Tech.
Fantasy Result: ELITE EIGHT
1991: After blowing a 16 point lead vs. Villanova in the first round of the BET, our only outright Big East regular season champion meandered through a 69-73 loss to 15th seed Richmond, (who had lost to Georgia, 90-45), the first ever loss by a 2 seed to a 15. Fortunately everybody in the country immediately had all memories of the game erased by the “Men in Black” and we’ve never had to hear about this game since. The Spiders got stepped on by Temple in the round of 32, 77-64.
Fantasy Result: ROUND OF 32
1992: The refs apologize for blowing an out of bounds call in the last minute of regulation as we lose to UMASS in overtime, 71-77 in the round of 32. The Minutemen lost to Kentucky, 87-77, in the Sweet 16.
Fantasy Result: SWEET SIXTEEN
1993: We are on probation and can’t go to the NCAA or NIT. Instead we fight our way to the finals of the BET but get crushed by Seton Hall, who appears to have their best ever team, 70-103. The Hall loses to our old friends, the Hilltoppers of Western Kentucky, in the round of 32.
Fantasy result: BET CHAMPIONS or, if you pretend we weren’t on probation ROUND OF 32.
1994: The refs disallow a shot Adrian Autry makes from the floor in regulation and we lose to Missouri in OT, 88-98. The Tigers go down to Arizona in the regional finals.
Fantasy Result: ELITE EIGHT.
1995: We have national champion Arkansas beat and are already celebrating the victory when the refs indicated that Lawrence Moten had called a time-out we didn’t have. We again lose in OT 94-96 and the Razorbacks go on to the Sweet 16 and eventually back to the national title game, where they lose to UCLA.
Fantasy Result: NCAA TITLE GAME
1996: With 1:05 left in the national title game vs. Kentucky, we are down 5 and get a turnover. Z Sims has the ball just past midcourt and John Wallace, who has 29 points and 10 rebounds, is sprinting for the basket with two guys following him. Z makes his only mistake of the year by using a chest pass rather than an alley-oop to try to get the ball to Wallace. It’s defected by one of the trailing guys and J-Dub gets his fifth foul trying to get to it. They get two free throws at the other end and we lose, 67-76.
Fantasy result: NATIONAL CHAMPION.
1997: A dismal follow-up year winds up in the NIT and the smallest crowd ever for a men’s basketball game at the Dome, (about 5000). The scoreboard doesn’t even work. Neither does the team, as we lose to Florida State, 67-82. The Noles went onto the NIT title game, where they lost to Michigan.
Fantasy Result: NIT FINALS.
1998: We get snookered in a regional with Duke, UCLA and Kentucky. It’s like the guy being run out of town on a rail. “If it weren’t for the honor of the thing, I’d just as soon skip it”. We lose to #1 seed Duke 67-80. They then lose to eventual national champion Kentucky in the regional final.
Fantasy result: ELITE EIGHT.
1999: SU completes a dismal 15-12 finish after a 6-0 start, (including another win over Indiana to win the Maui Classic), with a dismal performance in losing an 8/9 game to Oklahoma State and their point guard Doug Gottlieb. They lose to Auburn in the next round.
Fantasy Result: ROUND OF 32.
2000: Michigan State breaks the zone and overcomes a 40-26 deficit to win 58-75 in the Sweet 16 and goes on to win it all.
Fantasy result: NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
2001: Kansas pounds us on the boards to crush the ‘Cuse, 58-87, our worst NCAA loss ever. It’s a real fantasy to imagine SU winning that round of 32 game but it wouldn’t have mattered much. The Jayhawks lost in the Sweet 16 to Illinois, who lost to Arizona in the Elite 8 who lost to Duke in the Final. We weren’t going very far that year.
Fantasy result: SWEET SIXTEEN
2002: Another dismal end in the NIT as we lose to South Carolina in our practice uniforms. The Gamecocks then lost to Memphis in the finals, 72-62.
Fantasy Result: NIT FINALS
2003: No fantasy needed: NATIONAL CHAMPIONS
2004: A mild upset (5 vs. 8), to Alabama, 71-80 prevents a confrontation with Connecticut’s eventual national champions in a regional final.
Fantasy Result: ELITE EIGHT.
2005: After 13 years of basically “taking care of business” in the NCAAs, we drop a 57-60 eyesore to Vermont. Unfortunately, the “Men in Black” are on vacation. Michigan State takes care of business in the next round, 72-61 and goes on to the Final Four.
Fantasy Result: ROUND OF 32.
2006: With no GMAC, we lose 58-66 to an underseeded Texas A&M team. They lose on a buzzer shot in the next round to an LSU team that will make the Final Four.
Fantasy Result: ROUND OF 32.
2007: We somehow wind up a 2 seed in the NIT and Arkansas, who was going to be a 2 seed in the NIT, becomes a 12 seed in the NCAAs. We fight our way to the NIT quarterfinals but have to play Clemson at Clemson instead of in the Dome because we are only the 2 seed in the region. We lose, 70-74. They go on to lose the NIT Final to West Virginia.
Fantasy result: NIT FINALS
2008: Back in the NIT but on merit this time, we blow a 24 point lead to UMASS in the quarterfinals in the Dome. They also go onto the NIT Finals where they lose to Ohio State.
Fantasy Result: NIT FINALS.
2009: After a great BET run and wins over Stephen . Austin, (very distinguished but he was only one guy and bit old), and Arizona, we were like a bug hitting the windshield when we ran into Blake Griffin and Oklahoma, going down 71-84 in a game that wasn’t that close. Then the Sooners because a bug on North Carolina’s windshield, 60-72.
Fantasy result: ELITE EIGHT
2010 A great regular season in which we rose from unranked to #1 was derailed, again in the Sweet 16, by the Butler Bulldogs 59-63. As I type this, Butler is in the Final Four and tied with Michigan State at halftime, 28-28.
Fantasy Result: FINAL FOUR (maybe more)
So, what does it all add up to? If we’d just done what the team we lost to did in the JB era, we’d have:
- Made it to the ROUND OF 32 twenty-eight times, (or 27, depending on how you want to look at ’93).
- Made it to the SWEET 16 twenty-three times.
- Made it to the ELITE 8 eighteen times.
- Made it to the FINAL FOUR eleven times.
- Made it to the NCAA TITLE GAME five times, (maybe six)
- Won four NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, (maybe five)
- Made it to the NIT FINALS six times
- Won the NIT CHAMPIONSHIP twice.
How close were we to doing something like this? Five of the eight additional Finals Fours came in years where our loss was an upset and two of the other three were prevented by losses totaling 5 points. In the other game we had a 14 point lead in the second half. They team were lost to in that game, Michigan State in 2000, account for one of the additional three additional national titles. A one point loss to Indiana and a closer than that 9 point loss to Kentucky account for the other two.
On the flip side, we are not only reversing the results of 33 games to take the place of our conquerors but they won an additional 24 games to get to where they wound up. And other schools can play the same game. Coach K at Duke has actually been to 11 Final Fours now and has 3 national championships. What would his record look like if Duke did what the teams that beat them did?
But it’s still fun to think about and a lot of those results are not so far-fetched.
1/20/12 Update: Butler made it within a rimmed-out half court shot of winning the national title. That, in the fantasy scenario, would have had us playing for the national title 6 times with 4 wins. Last year Marquette lost in the Sweet 16, which for us would have been the 24th time but only our 6th loss.
