Mike Hopkins and UW | Page 32 | Syracusefan.com

Mike Hopkins and UW

SUFan44

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JB has more influence than Wildhack.
The Big donors and political capital JB has is real.

It’s doubtful JB could crown GMac as the next HC like I honestly think he would want to do. JB will not be told when he is done as HC.

JB supporters on here think fans who are realist and don’t bend the kneel are spoiled brats and should shut up. I completely disagree with what you say.
Whatever it is, JB can’t have a say in his successor. And if he sucks this year and next, there will be enough heat to make sure the change happens.
 

Zelda Zonk

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But it still counts though, correct? Pitino willingly acknowledges his time at SU as his first coaching gig. Too bad some in our fanbase disagree. But what does he know?
There’s a difference between having a relatively short experience with a program vs actually spending real time with one. If Pitino “acknowledges his time at SU” in press, because the media likes to tell the wedding night story… that’s just a good story for media. That’s one of those instances where Truth and Truth aren’t really the same thing. Sure, it’s technically true that he was an assistant coach for us. I personally wouldn‘t boast about that as him having ‘emerged from our “coaching tree”’ or whatever the expression is. I mean, transitively, you could say JB is part of K’s tree, from Olympic experience. But, that’s not meaningful either.
 

DoctorBombay

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Every coach who was an asst at any school is considered part of that head coaches coaching tree.

Exactly. It’s really not that hard.

There’s a difference between having a relatively short experience with a program vs actually spending real time with one. If Pitino “acknowledges his time at SU” in press, because the media likes to tell the wedding night story… that’s just a good story for media. That’s one of those instances where Truth and Truth aren’t really the same thing. Sure, it’s technically true that he was an assistant coach for us. I personally wouldn‘t boast about that as him having ‘emerged from our “coaching tree”’ or whatever the expression is. I mean, transitively, you could say JB is part of K’s tree, from Olympic experience. But, that’s not meaningful either.
There’s no degrees to this thing- he either was an assistant coach at SU, or he wasn’t. In Pitino’s case, he was. Why is this even a debate? SMDH
 
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Zelda Zonk

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Exactly. It’s really not that hard.


There’s no degrees to this thing- he either was an assistant coach at SU, or he wasn’t. In Pitino’s case, he was. Why is this even a debate? SMDH
Yeah, I said he was ‘on the tree.’ I also said that was meaningless. You’re SYDH because you can‘t reconcile nuance? You’re seriously that desperate to award credit to JB for Pitino’s career?
 

Cheriehoop

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Yeah, I said he was ‘on the tree.’ I also said that was meaningless. You’re SYDH because you can‘t reconcile nuance? You’re seriously that desperate to award credit to JB for Pitino’s career?
You could look at it the opposite way too. Are you so agenda driven regarding JB that you don’t want to recognize that Pitino was an assistant and that JB helped recognize his talent and jumpstart his career?
 

miamicuse

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So if pitino is put on a branch of JB coaching tree, then Billy Donovan, Tubby Smith, Mike Cronin, Travis Ford, Jeff Van Gundy and Frank Vogel are all on the JB tree by extension?

Pitino had Herb Sendek on staff, and Sendek had Sean Miller and Ralph Willard, Willard had Tom Crean, who tutored Buzz Williams. So Buzz Williams is the Great Great Great grandson off JB's branch? Sendek also had Thad Matta, and that branch runs to Brad Stevens.
 
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Zelda Zonk

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You could look at it the opposite way too. Are you so agenda driven regarding JB that you don’t want to recognize that Pitino was an assistant and that JB helped recognize his talent and jumpstart his career?
Pretty sure I recognized he was an assistant. Like when I said “…he was an assistant for us.”

I guess the entire conversation depends on what the purpose is of a “coaching tree.” I would suggest that the mention of it is the “agenda” and it’s meant to be an assertion of significance. I think it can be significant in some instances and not so much in others.

If you don’t want to consider my earlier question about JB fitting under K’s “tree,” how about this question: how long do you have to work for the HC to be considered ‘under his tree?’ And if “jumpstarting his career” is part of the criteria, what if the assistant was already on staff before the HC’s hire? People with the agenda need to be able to think about this in the simplest, binary way because it favors their hero. But if it is significant, then what about the converse? If you’re ’claiming‘ successful coach—the outlier with the most limited tenure, but ignoring that he is such an extreme outlier—then how objective is that argument?
 

DoctorBombay

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Pretty sure I recognized he was an assistant. Like when I said “…he was an assistant for us.”

I guess the entire conversation depends on what the purpose is of a “coaching tree.” I would suggest that the mention of it is the “agenda” and it’s meant to be an assertion of significance. I think it can be significant in some instances and not so much in others.

If you don’t want to consider my earlier question about JB fitting under K’s “tree,” how about this question: how long do you have to work for the HC to be considered ‘under his tree?’ And if “jumpstarting his career” is part of the criteria, what if the assistant was already on staff before the HC’s hire? People with the agenda need to be able to think about this in the simplest, binary way because it favors their hero. But if it is significant, then what about the converse? If you’re ’claiming‘ successful coach—the outlier with the most limited tenure, but ignoring that he is such an extreme outlier—then how objective is that argument?
Is it really so hard to simply state what’s always been the case regarding the “coaching tree” standard in cbb, and sports in general? Simply stated, if a HC of a program hires you, and you later lead a program after leaving said HC, then yes…you are part of the former HC’s tree. Period.
If you then hire assistants who move on to other HC gigs, they are now part of your tree. And so on, and so on.
There’s no parsing of words, or attaching benchmarks, or hypothetical situations like “ What if Coach K leads the Olympic Team and JB is an assistant, blah blah blah”, unless one is trying to push forth an agenda.
Look, I’m not an apologist for JB, but to suggest he operate under a different standard re; coaching tree criteria, is down right unfair. And that’s in every sport, ex: Bill Bellichick falls under the Parcells coaching tree, and Bill Parcells falls under the Ray Perkins coaching tree, and Ray Perkins falls under the Bear Bryant tree, etc.
Love him or hate him, Pitino, Willard, Rob Murphy, and/or anyone else that’s served under JB at SU…no matter the time frame, is part of his tree. Again, not really that hard.
 
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orangedave

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Is it really so hard to simply state what’s always been the case regarding the “coaching tree” standard in cbb, and sports in general? Simply stated, if a HC of a program hires you, and you later lead a program after leaving said HC, then yes…you are part of the former HC’s tree. Period.
If you then hire assistants who move on to other HC gigs, they are now part of your tree. And so on, and so on.
There’s no parsing of words, or attaching benchmarks, or hypothetical situations like “ What if Coach K leads the Olympic Team and JB is an assistant, blah blah blah”, unless one is trying to push forth an agenda.
Look, I’m not an apologist for JB, but to suggest he operate under a different standard re; coaching tree criteria, is down right unfair. And that’s in every sport, ex: Bill Bellichick falls under the Parcells coaching tree, and Bill Parcells falls under the Ray Perkins coaching tree, and Ray Perkins falls under the Bear Bryant tree, etc.
Love him or hate him, Pitino, Willard, Rob Murphy, and/or anyone else that’s served under him at SU…no matter the time frame, is part of his tree. Again, not really that hard.
Thank you. I was about to post a similar comment and you said it much better than I probably would have.
 

MSOrange

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Is it really so hard to simply state what’s always been the case regarding the “coaching tree” standard in cbb, and sports in general? Simply stated, if a HC of a program hires you, and you later lead a program after leaving said HC, then yes…you are part of the former HC’s tree. Period.
If you then hire assistants who move on to other HC gigs, they are now part of your tree. And so on, and so on.
There’s no parsing of words, or attaching benchmarks, or hypothetical situations like “ What if Coach K leads the Olympic Team and JB is an assistant, blah blah blah”, unless one is trying to push forth an agenda.
Look, I’m not an apologist for JB, but to suggest he operate under a different standard re; coaching tree criteria, is down right unfair. And that’s in every sport, ex: Bill Bellichick falls under the Parcells coaching tree, and Bill Parcells falls under the Ray Perkins coaching tree, and Ray Perkins falls under the Bear Bryant tree, etc.
Love him or hate him, Pitino, Willard, Rob Murphy, and/or anyone else that’s served under him at SU…no matter the time frame, is part of his tree. Again, not really that hard.
Well said. Now can you give me the time of my life back that I spent reading this thread? :)
 

Cheriehoop

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Pretty sure I recognized he was an assistant. Like when I said “…he was an assistant for us.”

I guess the entire conversation depends on what the purpose is of a “coaching tree.” I would suggest that the mention of it is the “agenda” and it’s meant to be an assertion of significance. I think it can be significant in some instances and not so much in others.

If you don’t want to consider my earlier question about JB fitting under K’s “tree,” how about this question: how long do you have to work for the HC to be considered ‘under his tree?’ And if “jumpstarting his career” is part of the criteria, what if the assistant was already on staff before the HC’s hire? People with the agenda need to be able to think about this in the simplest, binary way because it favors their hero. But if it is significant, then what about the converse? If you’re ’claiming‘ successful coach—the outlier with the most limited tenure, but ignoring that he is such an extreme outlier—then how objective is that argument?
LOL my heavens you just love to argue don’t you? :)It’s not all that complicated. If an assistant works directly under a head coach, particularly before they get their own first head coaching job, they are considered a member of that head coach’s tree. Pitino was at Syracuse as an assistant for JB’s first 2 seasons (not just one) as a head coach after being let go after 2 years (grad ass’t and ass’t) at Hawaii.(Hawaii’s record was 11-16 his last year) Pitino left SU getting his first contract as a head coach at Boston University. So you are trying to invent strict definitions for this concept for some reason? In those first 2 years SU’s record was 48-10. I don’t know why this is even a topic to argue about. I’m out and good luck fighting those windmills. ;) Hoping everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

 

rrlbees

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So if pitino is put on a branch of JB coaching tree, then Billy Donovan, Tubby Smith, Mike Cronin, Travis Ford, Jeff Van Gundy and Frank Vogel are all on the JB tree by extension?

Pitino had Herb Sendek on staff, and Sendek had Sean Miller and Ralph Willard, Willard had Tom Crean, who tutored Buzz Williams. So Buzz Williams is the Great Great Great grandson off JB's branch? Sendek also had Thad Matta, and that branch runs to Brad Stevens.

No. It doesn’t work that way otherwise it would be an endless ongoing tree. The only coaches that are part of JBs tree are those who actually were an asst for him at SU, whether that be for 1 year or 30.
 

miamicuse

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No. It doesn’t work that way otherwise it would be an endless ongoing tree. The only coaches that are part of JBs tree are those who actually were an asst for him at SU, whether that be for 1 year or 30.
That doesn't make sense to me if it's truly a "tree", implying there are branches off branches like a family tree.

In fact since JB was an assistant of K on the Olympics and K was under Knight, then JB is the grandson off the Bobby Knight tree.

I read somewhere that Gregg Pop of the San Antonio Spurs is under the Dean Smith tree because his mentor was Larry Brown and Brown was one branch off the Smith tree.
 
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CousCuse

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That doesn't make sense to me if it's truly a "tree", implying there are branches off branches like a family tree.

In fact since JB was an assistant of K on the Olympics and K was under Knight, then KB is the grandson off the Bobby Knight tree.

I read somewhere that Gregg Pop of the San Antonio Spurs is under the Dean Smith tree because his mentor was Larry Brown and Brown was one branch off the Smith tree.
I think you're smoking too much of the "tree".
 

rrlbees

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That doesn't make sense to me if it's truly a "tree", implying there are branches off branches like a family tree.

In fact since JB was an assistant of K on the Olympics and K was under Knight, then KB is the grandson off the Bobby Knight tree.

I read somewhere that Gregg Pop of the San Antonio Spurs is under the Dean Smith tree because his mentor was Larry Brown and Brown was one branch off the Smith tree.

Nevermind
 

miamicuse

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It seems when it comes to coaching trees it does go many levels deep. At least that's what I get when I did a quick internet search. Just do a search on Bill Walsh coaching tree and see what shows up.

Also it seems many go beyond the HC assistant relationship. As long as someone worked for (even as a video coordinator) or played for, as long as that person credits the HC as a mentor he/she learned from, then it can be a branch off that tree.

Coaching_Trees.GIF

QuwvYrv.png
 
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CousCuse

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It seems when it comes to coaching trees it does go many levels deep. At least that's what I get when I did a quick internet search. Just do a search on Bill Walsh coaching tree and see what shows up.

Also it seems many go beyond the HC assistant relationship. As long as someone worked for (even as a video coordinator) or played for, as long as that person credits the HC as a mentor he/she learned from, then it can be a branch off that tree.
Did you get this from Bill Walton at a Phish concert?
 

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