My issue with Babers | Syracusefan.com

My issue with Babers

MadNY3

MadNY3

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Dino is the 12th longest tenured Power 5 school head coach and 21st-longest tenured FBS coach.

So in this era, I’d love to see some evidence of a pipeline or continuity that dovetails with the portal strategy.

I don’t see a pattern.

Not good.

When the day comes, I don’t think we lose a lot from the transition. Not rooting for it, but for all the investment in the program, I’m looking for foundational/repeatable things to build upon and see few.
 
MadNY3 said:
Dino is the 12th longest tenured Power 5 school head coach and 21st-longest tenured FBS coach.

So in this era, I’d love to see some evidence of a pipeline or continuity that dovetails with the portal strategy.

I don’t see a pattern.
Expand...
What do you mean?
 
MadNY3 said:
Dino is the 12th longest tenured Power 5 school head coach and 21st-longest tenured FBS coach.

So in this era, I’d love to see some evidence of a pipeline or continuity that dovetails with the portal strategy.

I don’t see a pattern.

Not good.

When the day comes, I don’t think we lose a lot from the transition. Not rooting for it, but for all the investment in the program, I’m looking for foundational/repeatable things to build upon and see few.
Expand...
The portal is relatively brand new and we have done ok so far.
 
Can a coach have a pattern when players are jumping ship before the season, during the season, after the season after the bowl, after spring practice? Let's say it's Dec. 19th, you have 21 "on paper commits" and 3 players left the team for the portal...next year you have 16 "on paper commits" and had 9 players hit the portal. How can a program establish a pattern/strategy/routine? Needs are going to be different one year to the next.
 
SUDadx2 said:
We have missed on a few but may do better with transfers than we do with traditional recruiting.

Shrader
Del Rio - Wilson
Bleich
Cooper
Johnson
Clark
J. Simmons


Where would be this year without these guys?
Expand...
Wasn’t Tucker a transfer from Maryland too?
 
Goin' Deep said:
Can a coach have a pattern when players are jumping ship before the season, during the season, after the season after the bowl, after spring practice? Let's say it's Dec. 19th, you have 21 "on paper commits" and 3 players left the team for the portal...next year you have 16 "on paper commits" and had 9 players hit the portal. How can a program establish a pattern/strategy/routine? Needs are going to be different one year to the next.
Expand...

This is happening everywhere.

For a school like Syracuse the portal might be the most efficient way to recruit moving forward.

Raise the bar for HS targets. Stop targeting kids who no other Power 5 program and no other ACC program is recruiting. Too often we end up recruiting against Temple, UConn, Marshall, Northern Illionois etc... I know we "offer" a lot of top tier talent, but are we ever really in the conversation or given serious consideration? Target better talent. If you aren't able to sign them out of high school, stay positive, wish them well and watch for them in the portal in upcoming years.

We spend tons of time and money going after HS kids who do little more than fill out the roster. Our time and money may be better spent going after better talent with a two-putt approach. The first putt is when we aim high with HS kids. The second putt is when we are there to follow up with that young man when he enters the portal later on. Seems like that may have been what worked with players like Clark, Oliver and now Bellamy and Gould.

Of the 15 players we signed yesterday (12 high school and 3 JC) only 3 of them received an offer from another Power 5 program, and only 1 received an offer from another ACC school. Are we so arrogant that we believe we can identify 12 players that no other Power 5 school wanted who will contribute to taking Syracuse Football to the next level?

Clemson is probably the gold standard for the ACC. Their lowest rated signee would have been our third highest rated recruit.

Clemson sign 26 players out of HS. Only 4 of the 26 had an offer from Syracuse. Clemson 4, Syracuse 0.

Pitt is closest geographically to Syracuse. Pitt signed 19 players out of high school. Only 7 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Pitt 7, Syracuse 1*.

Wake is the smallest school in the conference. Wake also signed 19 high school players. Only 2 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Wake 2, Syracuse 1*.

BC another geographical rival. BC signed 17 high school kids. Only 5 of the 17 had an offer from Syracuse. BC 4, Syracuse 1*.

*Ike Daniels is the one player we signed who had offers from another ACC school.

We play in the ACC but we don't recruit players with offers from other Power 5 programs. We only signed 1 player with an offer from another ACC school. That's not competing on the recruiting front.


You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s***.


Applaud our 2023 recruiting class if you want. Believe some of our coaches are great recruiters if you want. But don't complain when we don't win on the field, especially in November if we aren't winning in the living room in December and February.
 
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SUDadx2 said:
This is happening everywhere.

For a school like Syracuse the portal might be the most efficient way to recruit moving forward.

Raise the bar for HS targets. Stop targeting kids who no other Power 5 program and no other ACC program is recruiting. Too often we end up recruiting against Temple, UConn, Marshall, Northern Illionois etc... I know we "offer" a lot of top tier talent, but are we ever really in the conversation or given serious consideration? Target better talent. If you aren't able to sign them out of high school, stay positive, wish them well and watch for them in the portal in upcoming years.

We spend tons of time and money going after HS kids who do little more than fill out the roster. Our time and money may be better spent going after better talent with a two-putt approach. The first putt is when we aim high with HS kids. The second putt is when we are there to follow up with that young man when he enters the portal later on. Seems like that may have been what worked with players like Clark, Oliver and now Bellamy and Gould.

Of the 15 players we signed yesterday (12 high school and 3 JC) only 3 of them received an offer from another Power 5 program, and only 1 received an offer from another ACC school. Are we so arrogant that we believe we can identify 12 players that no other Power 5 school wanted who will contribute to taking Syracuse Football to the next level?

Clemson is probably the gold standard for the ACC. Their lowest rated signee would have been our third highest rated recruit.

Clemson sign 26 players out of HS. Only 4 of the 26 had an offer from Syracuse. Clemson 4, Syracuse 0.

Pitt is closest geographically to Syracuse. Pitt signed 19 players out of high school. Only 7 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Pitt 7, Syracuse 1*.

Wake is the smallest school in the conference. Wake also signed 19 high school players. Only 2 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Wake 2, Syracuse 1*.

BC another geographical rival. BC signed 17 high school kids. Only 5 of the 17 had an offer from Syracuse. BC 4, Syracuse 1*.

*Ike Daniels is the one player we signed who had offers from another ACC school.

We play in the ACC but we don't recruit players with offers from other Power 5 programs. We only signed 1 player with an offer from another ACC school. That's not competing on the recruiting front.


You can't make chicken salad out of chicken .


Applaud our 2023 recruiting class if you want. Believe some of our coaches are great recruiters if you want. But don't complain when we don't win on the field, especially in November if we aren't winning in the living room in December and February.
Expand...


I don't disagree that the portal is a great opportunity for Syracuse, 2nd time around type of deal. I completely disagree with the reasons you come up with for why we struggle to get kids with a bunch of other P5 offers out of high school. The best sales people are only as good as the product they have to sell for the most part.

"Are we so arrogant that we believe we can identify 12 players that no other Power 5 school wanted who will contribute to taking Syracuse Football to the next level?"

Serioulsy. Arrogance? No but what they can do is identify kids that they feel fit the system and develop them for that system. They are recruited for what the staff feels they can be in a couple of years, I think when healthy the defense was pretty damn good this year, ton of P5 level players that may not all project to the NFL but good college players, sure many may have been under sized but they have ability. In addition, you are going to miss on some but the best Syracuse teams will be ones that have upperclassmen who have developed here, albeit from high school or the portal. and yeah maybe those kids weren't highly regarded out of high school but they put the work in and got better

Curious what offers the kids who project to go to the NFL next year had? I know Bergeron was lightly recruited, Williams as well. It's certainly not ideal but the reality of the situation

Is what it is but I will applaud the 2023 class because they have decided to accept a scholarship at Syracuse at least for a year. Hopefully some stick around long enough to develop

Syracuse is a very difficult place to recruit for reasons that have been discussed at nauseum around here
 
SUDadx2 said:
This is happening everywhere.

For a school like Syracuse the portal might be the most efficient way to recruit moving forward.

Raise the bar for HS targets. Stop targeting kids who no other Power 5 program and no other ACC program is recruiting. Too often we end up recruiting against Temple, UConn, Marshall, Northern Illionois etc... I know we "offer" a lot of top tier talent, but are we ever really in the conversation or given serious consideration? Target better talent. If you aren't able to sign them out of high school, stay positive, wish them well and watch for them in the portal in upcoming years.

We spend tons of time and money going after HS kids who do little more than fill out the roster. Our time and money may be better spent going after better talent with a two-putt approach. The first putt is when we aim high with HS kids. The second putt is when we are there to follow up with that young man when he enters the portal later on. Seems like that may have been what worked with players like Clark, Oliver and now Bellamy and Gould.

Of the 15 players we signed yesterday (12 high school and 3 JC) only 3 of them received an offer from another Power 5 program, and only 1 received an offer from another ACC school. Are we so arrogant that we believe we can identify 12 players that no other Power 5 school wanted who will contribute to taking Syracuse Football to the next level?

Clemson is probably the gold standard for the ACC. Their lowest rated signee would have been our third highest rated recruit.

Clemson sign 26 players out of HS. Only 4 of the 26 had an offer from Syracuse. Clemson 4, Syracuse 0.

Pitt is closest geographically to Syracuse. Pitt signed 19 players out of high school. Only 7 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Pitt 7, Syracuse 1*.

Wake is the smallest school in the conference. Wake also signed 19 high school players. Only 2 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Wake 2, Syracuse 1*.

BC another geographical rival. BC signed 17 high school kids. Only 5 of the 17 had an offer from Syracuse. BC 4, Syracuse 1*.

*Ike Daniels is the one player we signed who had offers from another ACC school.

We play in the ACC but we don't recruit players with offers from other Power 5 programs. We only signed 1 player with an offer from another ACC school. That's not competing on the recruiting front.


You can't make chicken salad out of chicken .


Applaud our 2023 recruiting class if you want. Believe some of our coaches are great recruiters if you want. But don't complain when we don't win on the field, especially in November if we aren't winning in the living room in December and February.
Expand...
What's that saying? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Why wouldn't they contact and officially offer every three, four and five star player that makes sense. The earlier you can get in with them the better. Especially with the way the portal works. Cast a wider net.
 
This was an unusual year for SU recruiting. Not a lot of HS slots to fill. They wanted slots open for transfers and juco's because they knew some guys that were going to leave for the draft.
 
Last edited:
IthacaBarrel said:
I don't disagree that the portal is a great opportunity for Syracuse, 2nd time around type of deal. I completely disagree with the reasons you come up with for why we struggle to get kids with a bunch of other P5 offers out of high school. The best sales people are only as good as the product they have to sell for the most part.

"Are we so arrogant that we believe we can identify 12 players that no other Power 5 school wanted who will contribute to taking Syracuse Football to the next level?"

Serioulsy. Arrogance? No but what they can do is identify kids that they feel fit the system and develop them for that system. They are recruited for what the staff feels they can be in a couple of years, I think when healthy the defense was pretty damn good this year, ton of P5 level players that may not all project to the NFL but good college players, sure many may have been under sized but they have ability. In addition, you are going to miss on some but the best Syracuse teams will be ones that have upperclassmen who have developed here, albeit from high school or the portal. and yeah maybe those kids weren't highly regarded out of high school but they put the work in and got better

Curious what offers the kids who project to go to the NFL next year had? I know Bergeron was lightly recruited, Williams as well. It's certainly not ideal but the reality of the situation

Is what it is but I will applaud the 2023 class because they have decided to accept a scholarship at Syracuse at least for a year. Hopefully some stick around long enough to develop

Syracuse is a very difficult place to recruit for reasons that have been discussed at nauseum around here
Expand...

Absolutely agree, Syracuse is a very difficult place to recruit. But I certainly do not believe that many of the players recruited and signed by our competition wouldn't fit in our offensive or defensive systems.

You "completely disagree with the reasons" I come up with for why we struggle to get kids with a bunch of other P5 offers out of high school. What reason(s) did I cite in my post?

Having players matriculate to the NFL is nice, but the purpose of recruiting players is to build a team that can compete in your conference not to put players in the league. Syracuse has not been very competitive in their conference.

Of the four players who have or will likely declare for the NFL draft this year, each of them had multiple offers from Power 5 programs with the exception of Bergeron; Jones had 12, Tucker had 2 and G. Will had 2. Bergeron was a great find. This year we only signed one high school player with multiple Power 5 offers.

Our coaches have done a fabulous job coaching up the talent they have. But I believe Syracuse is going to struggle to compete on the field until they can compete on the recruiting trail.

If you're recruiting players that no other Power 5 team wanted to offer a scholarship to and you're expecting to compete in a Power 5 conference, then you're going to need to be part magician as a coach. Most teams will take a flyer on a couple of under-sized or under-developed recruits, but of the 12 high school kids we just signed 9 of them didn't have a single offer from another Power 5 program.

Our recruiting class is ranked lasted in the ACC
247sports.com

2023 Overall ACC Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Our class would be ranked 5th in the AAC (based on Avg. points per recruit) behind UCF, SMU, Houston and Cincinnati.
247sports.com

2023 Overall ACC Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Our recruiting class is ranked higher than only one other Power 5 program: Washington State.


We recruited a lot of raw talent, but we need to do better. Adapt or perish.
 
SUDadx2 said:
This is happening everywhere.

For a school like Syracuse the portal might be the most efficient way to recruit moving forward.

Raise the bar for HS targets. Stop targeting kids who no other Power 5 program and no other ACC program is recruiting. Too often we end up recruiting against Temple, UConn, Marshall, Northern Illionois etc... I know we "offer" a lot of top tier talent, but are we ever really in the conversation or given serious consideration? Target better talent. If you aren't able to sign them out of high school, stay positive, wish them well and watch for them in the portal in upcoming years.

We spend tons of time and money going after HS kids who do little more than fill out the roster. Our time and money may be better spent going after better talent with a two-putt approach. The first putt is when we aim high with HS kids. The second putt is when we are there to follow up with that young man when he enters the portal later on. Seems like that may have been what worked with players like Clark, Oliver and now Bellamy and Gould.

Of the 15 players we signed yesterday (12 high school and 3 JC) only 3 of them received an offer from another Power 5 program, and only 1 received an offer from another ACC school. Are we so arrogant that we believe we can identify 12 players that no other Power 5 school wanted who will contribute to taking Syracuse Football to the next level?

Clemson is probably the gold standard for the ACC. Their lowest rated signee would have been our third highest rated recruit.

Clemson sign 26 players out of HS. Only 4 of the 26 had an offer from Syracuse. Clemson 4, Syracuse 0.

Pitt is closest geographically to Syracuse. Pitt signed 19 players out of high school. Only 7 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Pitt 7, Syracuse 1*.

Wake is the smallest school in the conference. Wake also signed 19 high school players. Only 2 of the 19 had an offer from Syracuse. Wake 2, Syracuse 1*.

BC another geographical rival. BC signed 17 high school kids. Only 5 of the 17 had an offer from Syracuse. BC 4, Syracuse 1*.

*Ike Daniels is the one player we signed who had offers from another ACC school.

We play in the ACC but we don't recruit players with offers from other Power 5 programs. We only signed 1 player with an offer from another ACC school. That's not competing on the recruiting front.

Y
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s***.


Applaud our 2023 recruiting class if you want. Believe some of our coaches are great recruiters if you want. But don't complain when we don't win on the field, especially in November if we aren't winning in the living room in December and February.
Expand...
Yeah you are definitely right this recruiting class I don't know what was going on we started out at 6 and oh and it had like no effect whatsoever on recruiting .

I mean we were getting a lot of good publicity during that time. We were in the top 15 But had little to no effect on recruiting traditional recruiting, the 3 transfers we got To me look extremely impressive but you can't win games with 3 transfers Period

I mean I'm hoping you know I spelled in the new football facilityou know the other things they're doing with the dull and the seating all this stuff should help I mean I really don't know what else really they could do after that , I guess they're going to have to just find somebody that assistant coach or something that can actually recruit that is known for it because I mean this class you look at these guys minus to feel and of course sellers and I knew it's gonna happen we're gonna lose , it is unacceptable in my opinion that we are competing with teams that invest nothing
 
Cuse#1 said:
Yeah you are definitely right this recruiting class I don't know what was going on we started out at 6 and oh and it had like no effect whatsoever on recruiting .
Expand...
9 of the13 HS commits were committed prior to the season. You don’t think the season we had factored into the transfers decisions to come here?
 
Last edited:
As emotional as I ( and everyone else ) has gotten about the brick wall we hit, In retrospect I am extremely happy with the season. Dino is really starting to fine tune how to keep the program successful. Iv always been a big proponent of stability and continual growth, I feel a lot of these schools freak out and shoot themselves in the foot. Our approach has been much wiser in my opinion. I do agree there are a few glaring things I’d like to see change which one the trenches seem they are being addressed. 2 the time management decisions I just don’t know. All in all the Louisville, Virginia, Purdue, nc state games were about the most fun iv ever had in the dome. That Louisville game was absolutely insane the energy in the building was electric!
 
SUDadx2 said:
Absolutely agree, Syracuse is a very difficult place to recruit. But I certainly do not believe that many of the players recruited and signed by our competition wouldn't fit in our offensive or defensive systems.

You "completely disagree with the reasons" I come up with for why we struggle to get kids with a bunch of other P5 offers out of high school. What reason(s) did I cite in my post?

Having players matriculate to the NFL is nice, but the purpose of recruiting players is to build a team that can compete in your conference not to put players in the league. Syracuse has not been very competitive in their conference.

Of the four players who have or will likely declare for the NFL draft this year, each of them had multiple offers from Power 5 programs with the exception of Bergeron; Jones had 12, Tucker had 2 and G. Will had 2. Bergeron was a great find. This year we only signed one high school player with multiple Power 5 offers.

Our coaches have done a fabulous job coaching up the talent they have. But I believe Syracuse is going to struggle to compete on the field until they can compete on the recruiting trail.

If you're recruiting players that no other Power 5 team wanted to offer a scholarship to and you're expecting to compete in a Power 5 conference, then you're going to need to be part magician as a coach. Most teams will take a flyer on a couple of under-sized or under-developed recruits, but of the 12 high school kids we just signed 9 of them didn't have a single offer from another Power 5 program.

Our recruiting class is ranked lasted in the ACC
247sports.com

2023 Overall ACC Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Our class would be ranked 5th in the AAC (based on Avg. points per recruit) behind UCF, SMU, Houston and Cincinnati.
247sports.com

2023 Overall ACC Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Our recruiting class is ranked higher than only one other Power 5 program: Washington State.


We recruited a lot of raw talent, but we need to do better. Adapt or perish.
Expand...
Your premise is sound.

I just want to point out that we have several commits not rated. Jeffery and Gordon from the HS class, as well as the five transfers. It seems (based on my very rudimentary rankings following) we have the most kids NR by number and percentage of all the ACC. which is a huge part of why our ranking score is so low. I imagine if those kids were all rated we’d be at least a lot closer to that bottom cluster of teams, if not above a couple of them.

but as you said, still not good enough. If we want to really compete
 
SUDadx2 said:
Absolutely agree, Syracuse is a very difficult place to recruit. But I certainly do not believe that many of the players recruited and signed by our competition wouldn't fit in our offensive or defensive systems.

You "completely disagree with the reasons" I come up with for why we struggle to get kids with a bunch of other P5 offers out of high school. What reason(s) did I cite in my post?

Having players matriculate to the NFL is nice, but the purpose of recruiting players is to build a team that can compete in your conference not to put players in the league. Syracuse has not been very competitive in their conference.

Of the four players who have or will likely declare for the NFL draft this year, each of them had multiple offers from Power 5 programs with the exception of Bergeron; Jones had 12, Tucker had 2 and G. Will had 2. Bergeron was a great find. This year we only signed one high school player with multiple Power 5 offers.

Our coaches have done a fabulous job coaching up the talent they have. But I believe Syracuse is going to struggle to compete on the field until they can compete on the recruiting trail.

If you're recruiting players that no other Power 5 team wanted to offer a scholarship to and you're expecting to compete in a Power 5 conference, then you're going to need to be part magician as a coach. Most teams will take a flyer on a couple of under-sized or under-developed recruits, but of the 12 high school kids we just signed 9 of them didn't have a single offer from another Power 5 program.

Our recruiting class is ranked lasted in the ACC
247sports.com

2023 Overall ACC Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Our class would be ranked 5th in the AAC (based on Avg. points per recruit) behind UCF, SMU, Houston and Cincinnati.
247sports.com

2023 Overall ACC Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com

Our recruiting class is ranked higher than only one other Power 5 program: Washington State.


We recruited a lot of raw talent, but we need to do better. Adapt or perish.
Expand...
Rankings? After the top 20 it’s pretty subjective but why would you think we would be out recruiting any P5 team? The great success over the past 20 years?

All those AAC teams have had much more success than Syracuse over the past 20 years and guess what, they are located in Ohio, Texas, Florida. Do I really need to explain this to you? Seriously. You just don’t get it. Keep bitching and yelling at clouds your handle suits you perfectly
 
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