My two cents Dino

[kcsu]

Over Thanksgiving I spent time rewatching most of our games this year and here are my thoughts on the season, the program and Dino.

I consider the year to be a solid success. Starting off with six wins that should have been 7 was an amazing feat given the fact that we had a new OC and QB coach and a very difficult schedule. As injuries piled up, we lost games that I believe we could have and would have won if we had remained healthy. Injuries in my opinion are the main reason that we lost games not coaching. Now that we can look back it is obvious that in addition to the players that were out of games, we also had key players who while they played did so in a limited capacity. Most notably Shrader and Tucker. Losing those two is the single biggest reason that we didn't achieve the number of wins that I believe we would have if they had remained healthy. Sure, every team has injuries. Next man up. But when you are SU, you don't have the luxury of a deep and talented bench. It is what it is and will most likely never change to the degree that we can win against good teams playing our second and third string players as well as having to rely on starters who are significantly limited due to their owies.
Almost every team we played is going to a bowl game. With the exception of Wagner, we didn't have a cream puff on the schedule. In short, we played a gauntlet of tough teams. Week in week out with a depleted team running an offense that they only had spring and fall practice to put in place.
With that as a background getting to 7 wins was looking back a heck of an accomplishment, which brings me to Dino and next steps.

I'm like Sybil when it comes to Dino. Half of us want him out the door the other half want him to finish his coaching career here. After reviewing the season and listening to each of his post-game press conferences again I'm firmly behind giving him an extension. The reason for this is that if he can surround himself with solid coordinators and assistant coaches, I believe that his leadership qualities and his genuine care for his players is critical to the future success of Syracuse football. His ability to retain players is going to be crucial for our program. Keeping our best players in the fold will become his number on priority. As long as he leaves the X and Os to others, he in my opinion is a very good coach for us.

The next key is JW. John has proven that he is 100% commiteed to football being successful. He is heading up the largest and most important improvement campaign for all sports in the history of the school. This will be a game changer for SU as will the NIL groups that have been formed and are growing. Togehter JW and Dino make a great public relations team. Dino has finally embraced the past and in doing so has helped to move the project forward. By retaining Dino we will keep the momentum going.

If we can keep this group of coaches mostly intact and if Dino can continue to build on his culture and retain our key players, the future is bright. I think that we will land in the PIN and end up playing in a well watched and meaningful bowl game. Next year looks very promising. I hope that Shrader returns and that we retain our key players. I can't wait to see what some of the young stars do with another year under their belts and with another year in our systems.
The schedule is going to be tough but should be easier than what we just went through.

God willing, we stay healthy next year for if we do I think that we are looking something special.

Can't wait for the bowl game. What a year what a ride. Let's have a great bowl victory and a solid off season.

Go Orange!

 

[mark79]

Over Thanksgiving I spent time rewatching most of our games this year and here are my thoughts on the season, the program and Dino.

I consider the year to be a solid success. Starting off with six wins that should have been 7 was an amazing feat given the fact that we had a new OC and QB coach and a very difficult schedule. As injuries piled up, we lost games that I believe we could have and would have won if we had remained healthy. Injuries in my opinion are the main reason that we lost games not coaching. Now that we can look back it is obvious that in addition to the players that were out of games, we also had key players who while they played did so in a limited capacity. Most notably Shrader and Tucker. Losing those two is the single biggest reason that we didn't achieve the number of wins that I believe we would have if they had remained healthy. Sure, every team has injuries. Next man up. But when you are SU, you don't have the luxury of a deep and talented bench. It is what it is and will most likely never change to the degree that we can win against good teams playing our second and third string players as well as having to rely on starters who are significantly limited due to their owies.
Almost every team we played is going to a bowl game. With the exception of Wagner, we didn't have a cream puff on the schedule. In short, we played a gauntlet of tough teams. Week in week out with a depleted team running an offense that they only had spring and fall practice to put in place.
With that as a background getting to 7 wins was looking back a heck of an accomplishment, which brings me to Dino and next steps.

I'm like Sybil when it comes to Dino. Half of us want him out the door the other half want him to finish his coaching career here. After reviewing the season and listening to each of his post-game press conferences again I'm firmly behind giving him an extension. The reason for this is that if he can surround himself with solid coordinators and assistant coaches, I believe that his leadership qualities and his genuine care for his players is critical to the future success of Syracuse football. His ability to retain players is going to be crucial for our program. Keeping our best players in the fold will become his number on priority. As long as he leaves the X and Os to others, he in my opinion is a very good coach for us.

The next key is JW. John has proven that he is 100% commiteed to football being successful. He is heading up the largest and most important improvement campaign for all sports in the history of the school. This will be a game changer for SU as will the NIL groups that have been formed and are growing. Togehter JW and Dino make a great public relations team. Dino has finally embraced the past and in doing so has helped to move the project forward. By retaining Dino we will keep the momentum going.

If we can keep this group of coaches mostly intact and if Dino can continue to build on his culture and retain our key players, the future is bright. I think that we will land in the PIN and end up playing in a well watched and meaningful bowl game. Next year looks very promising. I hope that Shrader returns and that we retain our key players. I can't wait to see what some of the young stars do with another year under their belts and with another year in our systems.
The schedule is going to be tough but should be easier than what we just went through.

God willing, we stay healthy next year for if we do I think that we are looking something special.

Can't wait for the bowl game. What a year what a ride. Let's have a great bowl victory and a solid off season.

Go Orange!

Great post. Agree 100%

 

[IthacaBarrel]

That's $2.00 not 2 cents! Anyway, obviously I think Dino did enough to keep his job this year and I think next year is just as big as this year was for Dino. When your boss states his expectations and you meet them your employment stays intact. Wildhack stated that he expects bowl games and most resonable fans agreed with that. So I would think another season with 6-7 wins at a minimum and we continue to move forward with Dino, warts and all and there are warts but also significant attributes that are very commendable. Ignoring that just seems odd to me especially given the challenges at Syracuse

That said, if he wins 4-5 then we have a problem and I think Dino is replaced and they will be in a position to do exactly that. I also think they need to be very careful who they hire and feel the new coach should know the landscape at Syracuse and have a solid in plan on what will work here. They need to know what they are getting themselves into and not just be looking for a P5 head coaching gig and what that brings. A prior stop here would be very beneficial, IMO. (not an absolute but beneficial) I don't want the first 2 years to be learning what Syracuse football actually is. Just my 2 cents

Hoping for a big year next year

 

[OburgOrange]

Someone hack your account?

 

[Pyle]

My two...Dino stays. He's done everything this board has asked of him in recent years. Changed coordinators, brought in portal talent, has a winning season this year. Anyone who wants him gone needs to re-evaluate some things IMO.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

He needs to fix the OL and Punting. Cannot have shanks and blocked punts. The OL was a big cause of our O issues. Between poor blocking and penalties. The 2nd half of Clemson till the 4th Q of BC was some really bad O.

His game and time management are bad but he is an old dog. We will have to deal with that.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Biggest offseason stories:
- retain Shrader and Jaime
- keep all other QBs in the fold
- portal/JUCO help for OL, NT, and WR

 

[kcsu]

That's $2.00 not 2 cents! Anyway, obviously I think Dino did enough to keep his job this year and I think next year is just as big as this year was for Dino. When your boss states his expectations and you meet them your employment stays intact. Wildhack stated that he expects bowl games and most resonable fans agreed with that. So I would think another season with 6-7 wins at a minimum and we continue to move forward with Dino, warts and all and there are warts but also significant attributes that are very commendable. Ignoring that just seems odd to me especially given the challenges at Syracuse

That said, if he wins 4-5 then we have a problem and I think Dino is replaced and they will be in a position to do exactly that. I also think they need to be very careful who they hire and feel the new coach should know the landscape at Syracuse and have a solid in plan on what will work here. They need to know what they are getting themselves into and not just be looking for a P5 head coaching gig and what that brings. A prior stop here would be very beneficial, IMO. (not an absolute but beneficial) I don't want the first 2 years to be learning what Syracuse football actually is. Just my 2 cents

Hoping for a big year next year

Spot on. I agree that the fit is so important. Its why a former coach or at a minimum someone who knows the landscape is a must. Guys like Grob never had a chance to succeed. Same with a coach like Gilbert.
As to wins it has to be a bowl game and any extension needs to be incentive based with a fair buyout.

 

[AZOrange]

I’m guessing we lose a few key guys:

More than 1 WR, Shredder and Tucker, Garrett, mikel, wax

I think Anae moves into advisory role or retires and Beck becomes the OC.

 

[GoSU96]

I’m guessing we lose a few key guys:

More than 1 WR, Shredder and Tucker, Garrett, mikel, wax

I think Anae moves into advisory role or retires and Beck becomes the OC.

Where is Shrader going?

It certainly isn’t the NFL, and why would he give up an ACC starting job ?

This speculation that he is going somewhere else is nuts

 

[orangepassion]

Spot on. I agree that the fit is so important. Its why a former coach or at a minimum someone who knows the landscape is a must. Guys like Grob never had a chance to succeed. Same with a coach like Gilbert.
As to wins it has to be a bowl game and any extension needs to be incentive based with a fair buyout.

I think the whole knowing the landscape thing is overrated. If a guy is sharp, he'll figure it out. Did Lance Leipold know the landscape so well when coming to Buffalo? He was good at identifying under the radar players and developing them and that's what matters. G-Rob failing wasn't an issue of not knowing the landscape. He wouldn't have been a good HC anywhere.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Spot on. I agree that the fit is so important. Its why a former coach or at a minimum someone who knows the landscape is a must. Guys like Grob never had a chance to succeed. Same with a coach like Gilbert.
As to wins it has to be a bowl game and any extension needs to be incentive based with a fair buyout.

I agree that would be the ideal but who actually fits that? Mullen was here 1 season as a GA, so he doesn't fit. You are not hiring Addazio, Ed O, or Edsall. Hackett? I'll pass. Marrone? Rehires seem to go bad. Who else has experience that was at SU? Lester? Lewis? Applewhite? Can't hire them. George McDonald? Patricia was a GA back in the early 2000s does he have enough experience at SU? And it was awhile ago.

If you want a Northeast guy those are also very few. Moorhead? Cignetti? Chesney? Who else?

We probably need to expand to knowing the ACC well.

 

[Chip]

The last 12 minutes at BC really saved the season.

Yeah, we still would have gone bowling at 6-6. But given how the first 48 minutes of that BC game had gone, if it continued that way, it would have been really hard to defend him.

Now that it did happen, the offense showed its former life, the team won 7 games, and he's completely safe.

I get that there are game decisions, clock management decisions, team on field disclipline/penalty issues that need to improve, but end of the day (these days), 7-5 isn't a coach changing season at Syracuse.

 

[JRHEETER]

Dino gets to stay

Has to make a bowl game next season too, especially with the much easier schedule compared to this season

Would have said to extend him but the 5 game losing streak made me back off because we got a lot of the same old same old with him

If he takes the team to a bowl game again next season, I think you extended him with a Syracuse friendly buy out

 

[JRHEETER]

The last 12 minutes at BC really saved the season.

Yeah, we still would have gone bowling at 6-6. But given how the first 48 minutes of that BC game had gone, if it continued that way, it would have been really hard to defend him.

Now that it did happen, the offense showed it's former life, the team won 7 games, and he's completely safe.

I get that there are game decisions, clock management decisions, team on field disclipline/penalty issues that need to improve, but end of the day (these days), 7-5 isn't a coach changing season at Syracuse.

Agreed, 6-6 with a solid chance of losing the bowl game and ending 6-7 would have been it for me

He saved/the team saved his job in my eyes the final quarter at Boston College

 

[Dick_in_MI]

The last 12 minutes at BC really saved the season.

Yeah, we still would have gone bowling at 6-6. But given how the first 48 minutes of that BC game had gone, if it continued that way, it would have been really hard to defend him.

Now that it did happen, the offense showed its former life, the team won 7 games, and he's completely safe.

I get that there are game decisions, clock management decisions, team on field disclipline/penalty issues that need to improve, but end of the day (these days), 7-5 isn't a coach changing season at Syracuse.

That is pretty much where I'm at. I have not been Dino's biggest defender over the past few years, but his boss set the expectation of a bowl and I personally wanted to see a winning regular season. Those are not necessarily the same things, but he achieved both of them. It was not a smooth ride, but at the end of the day we still have a chance at 8 wins. TBD.

That being said, there needs to be standards. Dino is the highest paid employee at SU, we are in a P5 conference, and we have thrown a lot of $$$ at the program. Dino himself set the expectation of "consistently good instead of occasionally great." We have yet to achieve that, so that's the next step.

If JW only thinks that the occasional winning season is satisfactory, he should not be in the job. Some like to say that we cannot have more winning seasons than we do at SU. If that's the case, we should focus on our mission as an academic institution and not be in the P5. So, given that we have committed to what it takes to be a P5 football program, we must also commit to real expectations on the football side.

As far as I'm concerned, we achieved what was needed this year...the minimum, but still it was achieved. Get that 8th win, especially if it comes at the hands of another P5 school, and that moves this season up another notch. For all our issues this year, 8-5 would be pretty darn good. The next step is keeping the ball rolling next year. Let's at least become consistently good, like Dino said our goal should be.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

I’m guessing we lose a few key guys:

More than 1 WR, Shredder and Tucker, Garrett, mikel, wax

I think Anae moves into advisory role or retires and Beck becomes the OC.

Well we have lost Queeley and Jackson so far, more than that?

Would be really bummed to lose Shredder and Wax especially.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think the whole knowing the landscape thing is overrated. If a guy is sharp, he'll figure it out. Did Lance Leipold know the landscape so well when coming to Buffalo? He was good at identifying under the radar players and developing them and that's what matters. G-Rob failing wasn't an issue of not knowing the landscape. He wouldn't have been a good HC anywhere.

I agree on Leipold for sure as to what his strengths are and he has a hell of a resume

But it only took Kansas 6-7x times to get it right after Mangino and I am sure each time they thought they had their guy!! Leipold was also successful every stop and built programs. Leiopld is a hall of famer at the D3 level 109-6 with 6 national championships. He was also hired by a really sharp AD at UB. Find me another Leipold I would definitely approve, he would have been great here spending the time at UB like he did. He knows how to turn around a program, coach em up, do more with less etc etc. That's a huge part of what we need too. He's a damn good coach.

Marrone who did well here said it took him some time to figure it out and was taken back by a lot of it. We are better shape now but still behind the 8 ball in many areas so to speak so yeah I just think it matters at Syracuse and would rather not just rely on a sharp guy figuring it out but to each his own. Not saying it can't work either way or fail either way as well.

I think WIldhack would do well hiring a new football coach

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Spot on. I agree that the fit is so important. Its why a former coach or at a minimum someone who knows the landscape is a must. Guys like Grob never had a chance to succeed. Same with a coach like Gilbert.
As to wins it has to be a bowl game and any extension needs to be incentive based with a fair buyout.

Agree100%

 

[Newhouser]

A mind boggling world when a Coach is told to not interfere with the O or D, has horrible game management, can't fix special teams, struggles recruiting the trenches, has a master's in double speak at press conferences, and will get an extension. Dino should send the TE from Purdue a XMAS annuity.

 

[Chip]

That is pretty much where I'm at. I have not been Dino's biggest defender over the past few years, but his boss set the expectation of a bowl and I personally wanted to see a winning regular season. Those are not necessarily the same things, but he achieved both of them. It was not a smooth ride, but at the end of the day we still have a chance at 8 wins. TBD.

That being said, there needs to be standards. Dino is the highest paid employee at SU, we are in a P5 conference, and we have thrown a lot of $$$ at the program. Dino himself set the expectation of "consistently good instead of occasionally great." We have yet to achieve that, so that's the next step.

If JW only thinks that the occasional winning season is satisfactory, he should not be in the job. Some like to say that we cannot have more winning seasons than we do at SU. If that's the case, we should focus on our mission as an academic institution and not be in the P5. So, given that we have committed to what it takes to be a P5 football program, we must also commit to real expectations on the football side.

As far as I'm concerned, we achieved what was needed this year...the minimum, but still it was achieved. Get that 8th win, especially if it comes at the hands of another P5 school, and that moves this season up another notch. For all our issues this year, 8-5 would be pretty darn good. The next step is keeping the ball rolling next year. Let's at least become consistently good, like Dino said our goal should be.

This century, we're averaging a bowl every 3+ seasons. Given how low the bar is, that's obviously unacceptable.

The celing isn't as high as it was during the 12 year run from 1987-1998, but the floor needs to be higher.

Throw in that the ACC scrapped divisions, which eases up the schedule, and we should be a bowl team annually. The occasional 2018 mixed in, the occasional 2021 will happen (2025, hello!).

Can't use the injury excuse either. We won 7 this year, and the injuries were probably far more impactful than any other season I can recall.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

This century, we're averaging a bowl every 3+ seasons. Given how low the bar is, that's obviously unacceptable.

The celing isn't as high as it was during the 12 year run from 1987-1998, but the floor needs to be higher.

Throw in that the ACC scrapped divisions, which eases up the schedule, and we should be a bowl team annually. The occasional 2018 mixed in, the occasional 2021 will happen (2025, hello!).

Can't use the injury excuse either. We won 7 this year, and the injuries were probably far more impactful than any other season I can recall.

Agree completely

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This century, we're averaging a bowl every 3+ seasons. Given how low the bar is, that's obviously unacceptable.

The celing isn't as high as it was during the 12 year run from 1987-1998, but the floor needs to be higher.

Throw in that the ACC scrapped divisions, which eases up the schedule, and we should be a bowl team annually. The occasional 2018 mixed in, the occasional 2021 will happen (2025, hello!).

Can't use the injury excuse either. We won 7 this year, and the injuries were probably far more impactful than any other season I can recall.

Over a 12 year period we play...

FSU 12x
Clemson 6x
ND 4x

We won't win many of those, but they are offset by...

FCS 12x (for now I think these go away soon)
G5 24x

We won't lose many of those. But the chances of losing these are about the same as beating the prior group. That makes us 36-22 with the rest of the ACC and OOC P5s left.

BC, Pitt 12x
Duke, GA Tech, Louisville, Miami, UNC, NC State, UVA, VA Tech, Wake 6x
OOC P5 8x

We probably should be close to .500 (43-43) vs this group. But we only need to be 36-50 to get average 6 Ws every year.

It really shouldn't be that hard to get to 6 Ws.

Now if the P5 all go to 10 P5 games (9+1 or 8+2) with no FCS, then we will need to go 48-50 vs non FSU, Clemson, ND P5 teams to average 6Ws per year. Much harder but certainly achievable.

 

[David332]

Excellent post, well said. Some very solid takes.

 

[SoBristol]

Can you measure the actual results vs some vague fan or even AD expectations -- without a hard look at the talent on the roster? Was 7 - 5 very good, given our talent? We had a very good group in the first unit entering the season in Shrader, Bergeron, Tucker, Gadsden, the 3 LBs who started the season, Garrett Williams, Chestnut.

Were we more talented than our opponents? Certainly not in the DL or OL or WRs. Certainly not without Shrader at 100%.

If you want to project out a winning record, every season, we need better recruiting, especially of bigs. It is really all about the recruiting and the factors that go into recruiting (including a winning record).