my two cents

[kcsu]

I wanted to wait a few games into the season before posting so that I would have a better read on the team.

Here goes.

Unfortunately, Red and his staff either missed out or whiffed on the kids that they brought into the program and retained.
I know that Red had a commitment from the kid that went to Georgia and looking back when he renegaded that was the beginning of a very bad season for Syracuse. As we all know PG is the most important position on the floor. Way more so in today's game than center. The bottom line is that Carlos is not close to being able to handle either end of the floor as a point for SU. I don't want to bash the kid as I'm sure he is playing hard, but he just doesn't have the talent to play at this level. With JJ out for what will be much more than a month we simply do not have anyone who can play the point and without one we are in tough shape. Next up is Lampkin. He is a decent player but with Red proclaiming he want to run and push the ball I have no idea why Red went hard after Lampkin as his game does not lend itself to an up and down style of play. Add in the fact that he is out of shape and probably 40-pounds overweight with back problems, and we have a perfect storm. No point and No center.

Further adding to the problem is the fact that Bell has not taken the next step forward. Not on the floor or in his leadership skills. He continues to be one dimensional. Yes, I know the stats, but I also see with two eyes. He is a shooter who isn't shooting well. Not from the floor or from the line. He continues to exhibit the same characteristics as last year when it comes to attitude and confidence and I'm not sure what Red or anyone on the staff can do at this point in his career to change that.

So, we don't have a point. We don't have a center. And the returning player we went all in on isn't playing any better than last year or showing the leadership qualities, we need.

Throwing gas on the fire is Reds coaching or lack thereof. At first, I thought he was playing around with combos trying to see what fit which combos worked. Now I believe he is clueless and grasping for answers that he either doesn't have or see. It is obvious that Donnie and Choppa need to be on the floor. It is obvious that Carlos doesn't. It seems obvious that Davis needs more run. Ect... So much of this seems obvious to those of us watching the games and commenting on them. For the life of me I don't know what Red is trying to do but it is a complete disaster so far.

I'm a fan of Red and the fact is JW didn't have any other option. He wasn't going to throw out 50 years of family and crap on Jim in the process as he would have lost too many boosters. He also couldn't elevate Gmac over Red for reasons that are way too obvious. So, he made basically the only option he had and elevated Red.

Red will be here next year because of the class he is bringing in which is our best in over a decade and because of Melo. Next year he will need to show significant progress, or I believe strongly he will be fired.

If he is smart, he will plan accordingly and play for the future.

This year needs to be treated as a laying a foundation for next year. We are not going to the dance or to the NIT. I doubt we break 500.

Its sad to see how far we have declined but the brand is strong, we have an excellent class coming in and most importantly we have Melos support.

Go Orange.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well said. This may be the first time I've ever agreed with you.

 

[kcsu]

Well said. This may be the first time I've ever agreed with you.

Better late than never

 

[Dcuse]

Did anybody ever think that that the inability to bring in the point guard Adrian wanted wasn't his failure but ours? We are the reason we didn't get what's his name,not the coach. I'm so sick and tired of hearing these rumblings of him being fired by all these brilliant basketball minds on this board after one season and a few games. He is in the process of changing the way we play to exactly what everybody wanted. It hasn't taken yet, that's for sure. So, we should fire him now? He is a victim of following a legend and needs time and our support. I say this as the one, and probably only one, that was clamoring for GMac to be our coach. I'm all in on Autry...right now.

 

[djcon57]

“I'm a fan of Red and the fact is JW didn't have any other option. He wasn't going to throw out 50 years of family and crap on Jim in the process as he would have lost too many boosters.”

This is an interesting line that we saw repeated over and over leading up to the retirement on JB and the hiring of Red.

do we know for a fact that all the boosters we had under JB are still supporting the new program? Seems like two totally different regimes to me.

 

[OHIORANGES]

I wanted to wait a few games into the season before posting so that I would have a better read on the team.

Here goes.

Unfortunately, Red and his staff either missed out or whiffed on the kids that they brought into the program and retained.
I know that Red had a commitment from the kid that went to Georgia and looking back when he renegaded that was the beginning of a very bad season for Syracuse. As we all know PG is the most important position on the floor. Way more so in today's game than center. The bottom line is that Carlos is not close to being able to handle either end of the floor as a point for SU. I don't want to bash the kid as I'm sure he is playing hard, but he just doesn't have the talent to play at this level. With JJ out for what will be much more than a month we simply do not have anyone who can play the point and without one we are in tough shape. Next up is Lampkin. He is a decent player but with Red proclaiming he want to run and push the ball I have no idea why Red went hard after Lampkin as his game does not lend itself to an up and down style of play. Add in the fact that he is out of shape and probably 40-pounds overweight with back problems, and we have a perfect storm. No point and No center.

Further adding to the problem is the fact that Bell has not taken the next step forward. Not on the floor or in his leadership skills. He continues to be one dimensional. Yes, I know the stats, but I also see with two eyes. He is a shooter who isn't shooting well. Not from the floor or from the line. He continues to exhibit the same characteristics as last year when it comes to attitude and confidence and I'm not sure what Red or anyone on the staff can do at this point in his career to change that.

So, we don't have a point. We don't have a center. And the returning player we went all in on isn't playing any better than last year or showing the leadership qualities, we need.

Throwing gas on the fire is Reds coaching or lack thereof. At first, I thought he was playing around with combos trying to see what fit which combos worked. Now I believe he is clueless and grasping for answers that he either doesn't have or see. It is obvious that Donnie and Choppa need to be on the floor. It is obvious that Carlos doesn't. It seems obvious that Davis needs more run. Ect... So much of this seems obvious to those of us watching the games and commenting on them. For the life of me I don't know what Red is trying to do but it is a complete disaster so far.

I'm a fan of Red and the fact is JW didn't have any other option. He wasn't going to throw out 50 years of family and crap on Jim in the process as he would have lost too many boosters. He also couldn't elevate Gmac over Red for reasons that are way too obvious. So, he made basically the only option he had and elevated Red.

Red will be here next year because of the class he is bringing in which is our best in over a decade and because of Melo. Next year he will need to show significant progress, or I believe strongly he will be fired.

If he is smart, he will plan accordingly and play for the future.

This year needs to be treated as a laying a foundation for next year. We are not going to the dance or to the NIT. I doubt we break 500.

Its sad to see how far we have declined but the brand is strong, we have an excellent class coming in and most importantly we have Melos support.

Go Orange.

The key word you mentioned a number of times is obvious.
Surprisingly what has been obvious for most of us apparently isn’t to Red. That’s not good. Not good at all

 

[oldpinepoint]

I absolutely believe there is a chance he could be let go this year. It’s probably small, but these things you describe dont give me confidence for next year either.

 

[JustPherU]

I wanted to wait a few games into the season before posting so that I would have a better read on the team.

Here goes.

Unfortunately, Red and his staff either missed out or whiffed on the kids that they brought into the program and retained.
I know that Red had a commitment from the kid that went to Georgia and looking back when he renegaded that was the beginning of a very bad season for Syracuse. As we all know PG is the most important position on the floor. Way more so in today's game than center. The bottom line is that Carlos is not close to being able to handle either end of the floor as a point for SU. I don't want to bash the kid as I'm sure he is playing hard, but he just doesn't have the talent to play at this level. With JJ out for what will be much more than a month we simply do not have anyone who can play the point and without one we are in tough shape. Next up is Lampkin. He is a decent player but with Red proclaiming he want to run and push the ball I have no idea why Red went hard after Lampkin as his game does not lend itself to an up and down style of play. Add in the fact that he is out of shape and probably 40-pounds overweight with back problems, and we have a perfect storm. No point and No center.

Further adding to the problem is the fact that Bell has not taken the next step forward. Not on the floor or in his leadership skills. He continues to be one dimensional. Yes, I know the stats, but I also see with two eyes. He is a shooter who isn't shooting well. Not from the floor or from the line. He continues to exhibit the same characteristics as last year when it comes to attitude and confidence and I'm not sure what Red or anyone on the staff can do at this point in his career to change that.

So, we don't have a point. We don't have a center. And the returning player we went all in on isn't playing any better than last year or showing the leadership qualities, we need.

Throwing gas on the fire is Reds coaching or lack thereof. At first, I thought he was playing around with combos trying to see what fit which combos worked. Now I believe he is clueless and grasping for answers that he either doesn't have or see. It is obvious that Donnie and Choppa need to be on the floor. It is obvious that Carlos doesn't. It seems obvious that Davis needs more run. Ect... So much of this seems obvious to those of us watching the games and commenting on them. For the life of me I don't know what Red is trying to do but it is a complete disaster so far.

I'm a fan of Red and the fact is JW didn't have any other option. He wasn't going to throw out 50 years of family and crap on Jim in the process as he would have lost too many boosters. He also couldn't elevate Gmac over Red for reasons that are way too obvious. So, he made basically the only option he had and elevated Red.

Red will be here next year because of the class he is bringing in which is our best in over a decade and because of Melo. Next year he will need to show significant progress, or I believe strongly he will be fired.

If he is smart, he will plan accordingly and play for the future.

This year needs to be treated as a laying a foundation for next year. We are not going to the dance or to the NIT. I doubt we break 500.

Its sad to see how far we have declined but the brand is strong, we have an excellent class coming in and most importantly we have Melos support.

Go Orange.

Great post.
It’s sad as %#^* what has happened to this program.

 

[Sbucketball]

Did anybody ever think that that the inability to bring in the point guard Adrian wanted wasn't his failure but ours? We are the reason we didn't get what's his name,not the coach. I'm so sick and tired of hearing these rumblings of him being fired by all these brilliant basketball minds on this board after one season and a few games. He is in the process of changing the way we play to exactly what everybody wanted. It hasn't taken yet, that's for sure. So, we should fire him now? He is a victim of following a legend and needs time and our support. I say this as the one, and probably only one, that was clamoring for GMac to be our coach. I'm all in on Autry...right now.

Are you referring to the fact we didn't have enough NIL money to get Leffew so Georgia bought him out from under us and gave him a bench role? Or something else.

 

[Dcuse]

Are you referring to the fact we didn't have enough NIL money to get Leffew so Georgia bought him out from under us and gave him a bench role? Or something else.

Exactly that.

 

[kcsu]

“I'm a fan of Red and the fact is JW didn't have any other option. He wasn't going to throw out 50 years of family and crap on Jim in the process as he would have lost too many boosters.”

This is an interesting line that we saw repeated over and over leading up to the retirement on JB and the hiring of Red.

do we know for a fact that all the boosters we had under JB are still supporting the new program? Seems like two totally different regimes to me.

myself and the guys i know wanted to keep it in house. Gmac would have been fine but going out no

 

[djcon57]

myself and the guys i know wanted to keep it in house. Gmac would have been fine but going out no

Yeah, but I get that but my question is are all of JB's boosters still supporting Autry?

 

[OttosShoes]

Red will be here next year because of the class he is bringing in which is our best in over a decade and because of Melo. Next year he will need to show significant progress, or I believe strongly he will be fired.

On the topic, I'll note Wildhack removed Dino with a quota. That's good management because it removes subjectivity, ensures expectations are met, and gives the employee a reasonable chance to retain the job.

At this point I can only assume Red has a similar quota. If I'm JW, I'd put that at 10 wins this season, and a tourney bid next season.

 

[5OutFred]

At this point I can only assume Red has a similar quota. If I'm JW, I'd put that at 10 wins this season, and a tourney bid next season.

Yeah, at this point it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Get through this year, tourney or bust next. Can't see JW letting this get to Year 4, if not.

 

[BomberOrange]

myself and the guys i know wanted to keep it in house. Gmac would have been fine but going out no

I do not understand this at all. Can you explain why you and the guys wanted to keep it in house? I wanted us to get the most qualified coach out there to take over. I was not upset at the Red hire, he was one of my favorite players of all time, but keeping it in the family...just to keep it in the family boggles my mind. I would think everyone would want to have the best chance at winning. But I am not a big time booster, so maybe there is just a different mindset of being loyal?

 

[Newhouser]

Roster management is putrid. Missing out on a PG I get, sort of.

What I don't understand is the love affair with Eddie. We aren't good enough to put him in the role he is best suited for - a 3rd option with some size. I think he has been fine and not really a shot at him just a question of where we are allocating resources.

 

[Hopkins16]

Red admitted he has to play Carlos as there are no other true point guard on the team. As an assistant coach for many years, being up close and personal to the game, how could he go into the season knowing that he has only one trusted ball handler/distributor? What if Carlos goes down by injury?
Meanwhile, we have an excessive amount of 2/3 positional players, half that aren't worth a scholarship. I am rooting for Red, but we will see if he will learn from and profit from the many takeaways that this season is offering.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This season is lost. Need to play the young guys as many mins as possible to prep for the future. Sorry upperclassmen. The sooner Red realizes this the longer his leash should get.

 

[Cappy3]

Red admitted he has to play Carlos as there are no other true point guard on the team. As an assistant coach for many years, being up close and personal to the game, how could he go into the season knowing that he has only one trusted ball handler/distributor? What if Carlos goes down by injury?
Meanwhile, we have an excessive amount of 2/3 positional players, half that aren't worth a scholarship. I am rooting for Red, but we will see if he will learn from and profit from the many takeaways that this season is offering.

He certainly expected Starling to get minutes at point. There was early talk that JJ would start there. And probably hoped Westry would come along quicker. Three guys capable of playing point is pretty much as many as any team has. Can’t foresee injuries.

 

[phil77]

Did anybody ever think that that the inability to bring in the point guard Adrian wanted wasn't his failure but ours?

More excuses...

The coaches job is to inspire and get the funding needed for him to get the players he wants. NIL era raising funds and getting the fanbase inspired to give is literally part of the job now. Does Fran get credit for bringing in McCord or do we get that credit?

 

[kingtidge]

Did anybody ever think that that the inability to bring in the point guard Adrian wanted wasn't his failure but ours? We are the reason we didn't get what's his name,not the coach. I'm so sick and tired of hearing these rumblings of him being fired by all these brilliant basketball minds on this board after one season and a few games. He is in the process of changing the way we play to exactly what everybody wanted. It hasn't taken yet, that's for sure. So, we should fire him now? He is a victim of following a legend and needs time and our support. I say this as the one, and probably only one, that was clamoring for GMac to be our coach. I'm all in on Autry...right now.

If we don't have the NIL, oh well.

There appears (as always) to be some ITK's on our situation with NIL but it's a topic that also appears to be more than a bit of smoke and mirrors.

I get that NIL is a touchy topic and if there are challenges, it may be best to enforce the first rule about fight club... i.e. broadcasting NIL problems publicly is not helpful...

On the other hand, if the new mantra is "don't ask questions, just shut up and donate" ok, but honestly, it's not much of a communication strategy from a school that is supposed to be a masterclass communications institution. I am not a whale donor and will make my annual contribution to Orange United, but if the school wants more from me know that I am like most small fish... I have limited funds and I also donate to numerous charities each year that are likely more worthy... i.e. I don't have a lot to spread around.

It sounds like we may need more NIL whales, but that is just a guess since I am not ITK... and I am already back into fight club territory on that if true...

It's not like the basketball program has been managed well in a really longtime anyways, but if it's small fish "fans fault" now because of NIL, so be it.

Blame me and fans like me.

If we can't get the whale donors we need to compete, maybe it's time to call a spade a spade and let basketball be whatever hollowed-out husk of it's former self it actually is... Why hope where there is none?

Maybe it's time to go 100% in on football?? ...At least there is tangible evidence of progress and excitement there.

Either way, I am behind Red for this year and next no matter the struggles (and they may be mighty). I may critique, complain, and (hopefully) praise along the way, but it was always a 3-year litmus test on an internal hire in my book.

 

[UpstateSM]

If Kiyan, and what comes with him, coming to Syracuse next season is the biggest reason that Red will be back next season then I wish that he chose USC. A year or two more of the "coaching" that I am watching is not worth a year or two of nostalgia. No amount of talent or NIL money in the CBB world would make me want another year of this. It is painfully obvious that whatever it is we are doing is not it.

 

[Hopkins16]

He certainly expected Starling to get minutes at point. There was early talk that JJ would start there. And probably hoped Westry would come along quicker. Three guys capable of playing point is pretty much as many as any team has. Can’t foresee injuries.

Starling at the point is turnover prone and is a spot duty guy. Westry, you said "probably hoped...". You can't go on hope. Westry in his few minutes looked very rusty and shaky at the point. He will need time to get into form, time we do not have if we want to have a successful season.

At this point, since the season is already lost, play Westry as much as his body can take, along with Freeman and Moore. These are guys most likely to be here next year and need all the reps they can get.

 

[Red2003]

I get people expect better from Eddie.

Is it just because people feel like he wasn’t worth the money and asked for more?

I don’t even remember hearing many other options even in these threads where people have all kinds of crazy ideas

 

[littlereg]

I get people expect better from Eddie.

Is it just because people feel like he wasn’t worth the money and asked for more?

I don’t even remember hearing many other options even in these threads where people have all kinds of crazy ideas

Didn’t we land Lampkin very early? I believe that’s why there wasnt much center portal theory crafting