NBA 2017-2018 thread | Page 35 | Syracusefan.com

NBA 2017-2018 thread

Knicks411 said:
Figured. Maybe you could move Kawhi up a spot?
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I would put the list at Bron, Kawhi, Steph and KD.

Steph is more valuable for today's NBA with the other four on the floor than KD is, imo. But the more important thing is that these are the top four (2-4 is up for debate).
 
MikeSU02 said:
I would put the list at Bron, Kawhi, Steph and KD.

Steph is more valuable for today's NBA with the other four on the floor than KD is, imo. But the more important thing is that these are the top four (2-4 is up for debate).
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yeah, I could possibly see Kawhi as high as 2.

Steph's floor spacing is so amazing, but also, there's no real way for me to truly value it.
 
Knicks411 said:
yeah, I could possibly see Kawhi as high as 2.

Steph's floor spacing is so amazing, but also, there's no real way for me to truly value it.
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Point Differential when he is on the court compared to any other player in the league IMO...
 
BTW, I think Draymond is a great player. But he is not a top ten player in the league.

You cannot be a competitor for a title with him as your best guy.
 
MikeSU02 said:
BTW, I think Draymond is a great player. But he is not a top ten player in the league.

You cannot be a competitor for a title with him as your best guy.
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Certainly not if he's your best offensive player, but he's a great passer, an unbelievable defender, and his versatility is just insane. You can fit him so easily on any team in the NBA, which is a big reason why guys like him and Khris Middleton are ranked higher than one might expect them to be. I'm not sure he should be #10 either, but I think I'd probably have him at like #13 at worst so I don't think it's too unreasonable.
 
MikeSU02 said:
BTW, I think Draymond is a great player. But he is not a top ten player in the league.

You cannot be a competitor for a title with him as your best guy.
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Also, he's kind of a moron and can be a liability. Arguably cost his team one title.

I mean, he helped get them two others though, so...
 
MikeSU02 said:
I would put the list at Bron, Kawhi, Steph and KD.

Steph is more valuable for today's NBA with the other four on the floor than KD is, imo. But the more important thing is that these are the top four (2-4 is up for debate).
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I think KD is a solid #2, and he's going to be #1 within another year or two. Brings more to the table defensively and on the boards than Curry, while being pretty much unguardable and a good passer as well.
 
Knicks411 said:
Are there ten players in the league who you can say that about though?
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Let me put it this way, I don't think you are looking at home court advantage if Dray is your best player.

He plays with the best shooter of all time.
He plays with KD who will be considered a top 20, if not top 15 player by the time he retires.
He plays with Klay who is a top five shooter of all time.

If you straight up swapped Dray for Demarcus Cousins, do you think GSW's odds for winning the title would go down?

Horford? Jokic? Marc Gasol? Gobert? [EDIT: KAT!!!!]

You put those guys with the guys on the team and put Dray on their teams, no one would consider Dray top 10.

Dray has a lot of skills that are showcased because of how the other team has to play him.

I'm not saying he isn't good or shouldn't be an all star, but he's playing with a different resistance than any of the guys I mentioned because of who he plays with.
 
OrangeDW said:
I think KD is a solid #2, and he's going to be #1 within another year or two. Brings more to the table defensively and on the boards than Curry, while being pretty much unguardable and a good passer as well.
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I can see the argument for KD #2. I don't agree, but I think Kawhi, Steph and KD being 2-4 is the big thing (in whatever order).
 
MikeSU02 said:
Let me put it this way, I don't think you are looking at home court advantage if Dray is your best player.

He plays with the best shooter of all time.
He plays with KD who will be considered a top 20, if not top 15 player by the time he retires.
He plays with Klay who is a top five shooter of all time.

If you straight up swapped Dray for Demarcus Cousins, do you think GSW's odds for winning the title would go down?

Horford? Jokic? Marc Gasol? Gobert? [EDIT: KAT!!!!]

You put those guys with the guys on the team and put Dray on their teams, no one would consider Dray top 10.

Dray has a lot of skills that are showcased because of how the other team has to play him.

I'm not saying he isn't good or shouldn't be an all star, but he's playing with a different resistance than any of the guys I mentioned because of who he plays with.
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Some random thoughts on this.

1) You probably underrate KD, I think he probably ends up as a top ten guy of all time? I dunno, and not the point of the post, so feel free to disregard.
2) On the cousins point; absolutely, if you swapped DMC for Dray the odds would go down of the Warriors winning. (imo, of course) They'd still be the overwhelming favorite. And I think that goes for every other guy you mentioned as well.
3) KD is amazing, no question, like I said I think you underrated him. Without him, you're talking about a team that won 140 games in 2 years and was probably a dumb decision (by dray) from winning 2 titles in a row.
4) Dray does have skills showcased by how other teams have to play him, but the one thing that makes the Warriors the Warriors more than anything else is the death lineup, and Dray is probably the key to the death lineup. (probably?)

So I don't know if he's one of the ten best players. But you're talking about a guy who is either the best or second best defensive player in the league, probably the most versatile defensive player in the league, is a really good passer, and a decent to pretty good scorer. Maybe he wouldn';t be considered top ten on a different team, but if he were on a different team I'd probably be banging the drum on how underrated he is.
 
Knicks411 said:
Some random thoughts on this.

1) You probably underrate KD, I think he probably ends up as a top ten guy of all time? I dunno, and not the point of the post, so feel free to disregard.
2) On the cousins point; absolutely, if you swapped DMC for Dray the odds would go down of the Warriors winning. (imo, of course) They'd still be the overwhelming favorite. And I think that goes for every other guy you mentioned as well.
3) KD is amazing, no question, like I said I think you underrated him. Without him, you're talking about a team that won 140 games in 2 years and was probably a dumb decision (by dray) from winning 2 titles in a row.
4) Dray does have skills showcased by how other teams have to play him, but the one thing that makes the Warriors the Warriors more than anything else is the death lineup, and Dray is probably the key to the death lineup. (probably?)

So I don't know if he's one of the ten best players. But you're talking about a guy who is either the best or second best defensive player in the league, probably the most versatile defensive player in the league, is a really good passer, and a decent to pretty good scorer. Maybe he wouldn';t be considered top ten on a different team, but if he were on a different team I'd probably be banging the drum on how underrated he is.
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Fair points on KD. I think he can end up top 10.

And I don't want to take away from Dray. I think he's top 15-30, all-star, probably HoF in the long run.

I just think he's very protected in his circumstance.

BTW, putting Boogie on the Dubs would be hilarious.
 
MikeSU02 said:
Fair points on KD. I think he can end up top 10.

And I don't want to take away from Dray. I think he's top 15-30, all-star, probably HoF in the long run.

I just think he's very protected in his circumstance.

BTW, Putting Boogie on that Dubs would be hilarious.
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I guess I just think to say he's "protected" is not totally fair. It goes both ways, the Warriors are the Warriors because in large part what Dray does. How many guys in the league could play the role he does? I legit think he may be the only one. Maybe freak? But Dray has some of the best rim protection numbers around, and he can shoot too.

Boogie on the Warriors would be just fantastic.

I said top 10 on Durant, and then after I hit send I thought maybe it's an oversell, there are so many great players in the history of the league, etc. But some of the stuff Durant can do is incredible. An amazing Durant fact is he hasn't been first team all league in any of the last 3 seasons. Seems hard to believe
 
Knicks411 said:
I guess I just think to say he's "protected" is not totally fair. It goes both ways, the Warriors are the Warriors because in large part what Dray does. How many guys in the league could play the role he does? I legit think he may be the only one. Maybe freak? But Dray has some of the best rim protection numbers around, and he can shoot too.

Boogie on the Warriors would be just fantastic.

I said top 10 on Durant, and then after I hit send I thought maybe it's an oversell, there are so many great players in the history of the league, etc. But some of the stuff Durant can do is incredible. An amazing Durant fact is he hasn't been first team all league in any of the last 3 seasons. Seems hard to believe
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Durant may end up being the all-time scoring leader in the league. He absolutely could be top 10.

I just think if you put Boogie / KAT / Jokic on the Dubs, they would be able to get more open looks, more passing lanes, tap into more tools (Jokic, especially, for passing), etc.

And, Dray can protect the rim, in a sense, but he can't protect the rim like Gobert could if there was a dominant seven footer with skills due to his height. Luckily for Dray, he isn't going against those guys.

Dray is hitting wiiiiiide open threes. I think Gasol, Kat, etc could do the same. The floor is so expanded with the Dubs that the defense has a seriously larger area to cover.

I just don't think Dray could do what he does on Memphis or the Pels. I don't think he would be getting wide open threes and the passing lanes wouldn't be there for him.

[EDIT: BTW - I think this is a fair argument for Dray. I'm just not on the side of him being top 10. Especially when a guy like Giannis is coming in at #9 and then you start getting into AD, Russ, Harden.]
 
Last edited:
MikeSU02 said:
Durant may end up being the all-time scoring leader in the league. He absolutely could be top 10.

I just think if you put Boogie / KAT / Jokic on the Dubs, they would be able to get more open looks, more passing lanes, tap into more tools (Jokic, especially, for passing), etc.

And, Dray can protect the rim, in a sense, but he can't protect the rim like Gobert could if there was a dominant seven footer with skills due to his height. Luckily for Dray, he isn't going against those guys.

Dray is hitting wiiiiiide open threes. I think Gasol, Kat, etc could do the same. The floor is so expanded with the Dubs that the defense has a seriously larger area to cover.

I just don't think Dray could do what he does on Memphis or the Pels. I don't think he would be getting wide open threes and the passing lanes wouldn't be there for him.

[EDIT: BTW - I think this is a fair argument for Dray. I'm just not on the side of him being top 10. Especially when a guy like Giannis is coming in at #9 and then you start getting into AD, Russ, Harden.]
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I think Dray was like #2 in the league at FG% allowed at the rim, with Gobert #1. The dude is amazing.
 
ESPN 1-10

Dray
Freak
Harden
Paul
Davis
Russ
Steph
Kawhi
KD
Lebron
 
Amazing the conditioning current NBA players go through now. LeBron almost looks too thin.

Wonder if these two are planning a reunion this year.

 
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