New Amateur Conference

[bt4421]

I would like to see NIL big boy schools all get together and have a ball in their one big conference. Then let schools who prefer not to be a part of it create their own conference.

While I have never been one who wanted syracuse to step down from FBS as some have suggested in the past, I do however think that I would prefer if the above were to happen, and syracuse would join the "Amateur" conference. I just use that term for lack of anything better btw.

I might be on the minority on this. IDK. But I would think the the conference could do quite well. Look, would the quality of play be that much worse? Some might argue that the quality could actually be better. Obviously individual talent would be less. And wouldn't it be cool to think of the national champions of each conference facing off? Probably never happen. But I would bet there would be years where fans would love to see it. Especially true with hoops. But I would be willing to bet that the feel would be there in football every now and then.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

High level college football has never been amateur.

 

[bt4421]

High level college football has never been amateur.

Agree. I know. The new conference would face the same challenges of policing that we had with the NCAA. One difference, is that at least the new conference would be for schools who choose to join. That gives them their option. Look if you want to continue to shell out coin, then you have the option for the pay for play conference.

 

[SU68]

Meh

 

[MG44]

I would like to see NIL big boy schools all get together and have a ball in their one big conference. Then let schools who prefer not to be a part of it create their own conference.

While I have never been one who wanted syracuse to step down from FBS as some have suggested in the past, I do however think that I would prefer if the above were to happen, and syracuse would join the "Amateur" conference. I just use that term for lack of anything better btw.

I might be on the minority on this. IDK. But I would think the the conference could do quite well. Look, would the quality of play be that much worse? Some might argue that the quality could actually be better. Obviously individual talent would be less. And wouldn't it be cool to think of the national champions of each conference facing off? Probably never happen. But I would bet there would be years where fans would love to see it. Especially true with hoops. But I would be willing to bet that the feel would be there in football every now and then.

Im not sure how I feel yet, but I kinda get what you're saying. If I'm going to watch paid players and unlimited free agency I might go back to watching pro football. I dont know what the hell I'm going to do. Maybe I'll go watch the Phantom of The Opera with Bud

 

[sufandu]

There won't be anything established that is absent of NIL that has any popularity to it. It's the popularity that leads to NIL. People need to get it out of their head the idea that colleges or any governing body can legislate it out. The federal government declared that athletes can make money off of themselves. If they play for a school with a large number of fans, they become valuable and can monetize that. Splitting into different divisions will not change it.

If you want amateur sports, fall in love with the lower divisions that aren't televised and have tiny stadiums. That's really your only option.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I can understand where you're coming from but no.

You just miss the days where you didn't really know about players getting paid. The Pony Express is legal now, but it's no different now than it was back then*

*The only real difference is the transfer portal and players getting to move more freely with less restriction (which is a good thing for the players)

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I wish there was a developmental league run by the NFL that could serve as a place where talented high school and college athletes might have a faster track to the NFL. That would cool college football’s status as THE proving ground for young talent. But the results would be a matter of degrees in a step back to the concept of scholar athletes - we’d still see NIL for the talent that wasn’t headed to a developmental league …

 

[SWC75]

It's not a demotion if they create a division above where you've always been in which you would not be able to compete so you stay where you are.

 

[Whitey23]

 

[UpstateSM]

Football is going to break off and have one or two huge "super conferences." Syracuse will play at a lower level with other northeast schools who don't want to make that jump.

ACC hoops will remain the same and if it doesn't we will go play Big East basketball again.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It is too late at this point. It is like trying to put back together a box filled with Sabre products.

There won't be as much NIL money floating around for non revenue sports or at lower level divisions/conferences. Those are the closest you will get to amateur, which does not apply to SU FB or BBall.

The bigger problem is freedom of movement. But again the box has already been opened. IMO at this point you are better off ending the academic charade and just creating under 23 year old college revenue generating sports teams. A kid turns 18 and you can sign him to a 1-5 year contract. That will restrict player movement somewhat. If a kid wants out he will need to buyout the contract.

The non revenue sports would still be under the NCAA system. Schools could chose to have their revenue sports in the NCAA system but that would basically mean FCS FB and DII BBall.

If you look to the pro sports leagues, that will give a good indication of what can be revenue generating. There are professional leagues in...

Football (NFL, XFL, USFL, IFL, NAL)- definitely CFB will be revenue regenerating for the P5, but only some of the G5. Probably the top half of the MWC and AAC.

Men's and Women's Basketball (NBA, WNBA)- yes for the P6, but only some of the rest of the schools. Likely top teams from the MWC, AAC, A10, WCC. For women some will be profitable. For others, the school might have a team to promote the sport and for goodwill. A profit wouldn't be a must.

Baseball and Softball (MLB, WPF)- based on how often it is on ESPN and despite the existence of the minor leagues, I would say it is revenue regenerating for most existing P5 teams. Outside of that only a few. For the women I would say the same. You see it on TV plenty.

Men's and Women's Hockey (NHL, PHF)- not sure this would make the cut. Is there enough TV money? You don't see it on very often. There are a lot of competing sports on at the time. Most schools don't get good crowds. Even if it were profitable, it would only be for a select few. For women, if the school wanted more women's sports I could see it. But it would be at a loss.

Men's and Women's Soccer (MLS, MASL, NWSL)- another sport with TV and attendance issues. With all the professional leagues on TV from around the world and the US youth system, the college talent level is sub par. Certainly not enough to drive much interest. I can't see this being profitable. For the women this would be a loss. But you are promoting the sport and women. Plus it will help our national team.

Men's Lacrosse (NLL, PLL)- I think you could see the ACC, B16, and 5-6 outside teams make a profit. You don't see it on TV a lot though. But then again there are 2 pro leagues for the sport. And it is in a season with few competing sports.


Being able to offer the TV networks year round sports would be attractive. So I think you would see Women's Soccer (Labor Day to Thanksgiving), Football (Labor Day to MLK Day), Men's and Women's Basketball (Halloween to Easter), Baseball and Softball (St Patrick's Day to 4th of July). That hits all but 2 months in Summer. I think Men's Soccer, Men's Lacrosse, and Hockey are too niche to be profitable. So they stay under the NCAA system.

So for SU we would have Football, Women's Soccer, Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball, and Softball. Baseball there are too many barriers to entry to make it profitable.

 

[SWC75]

How about a conference made up of current Power Five Private schools?

It could be constructed by whatever is left over of these after being left behind in the "rapture" of the mega-conferences:
Syracuse, Boston College, Duke, Wake Forest, Baylor, Texas Christian, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Brigham Young, Stanford. Maybe add in Tulane, Rice and Southern Methodist. I'll assume Notre Dame, Southern California and U of Miami might be 'raptured'.

 

[anomander]

I would like to see NIL big boy schools all get together and have a ball in their one big conference. Then let schools who prefer not to be a part of it create their own conference.

While I have never been one who wanted syracuse to step down from FBS as some have suggested in the past, I do however think that I would prefer if the above were to happen, and syracuse would join the "Amateur" conference. I just use that term for lack of anything better btw.

I might be on the minority on this. IDK. But I would think the the conference could do quite well. Look, would the quality of play be that much worse? Some might argue that the quality could actually be better. Obviously individual talent would be less. And wouldn't it be cool to think of the national champions of each conference facing off? Probably never happen. But I would bet there would be years where fans would love to see it. Especially true with hoops. But I would be willing to bet that the feel would be there in football every now and then.

That would be the last day I watched Syracuse football. I’ll watch the real teams play

 

[SWC75]

That would be the last day I watched Syracuse football. I’ll watch the real teams play

'Real' teams go out and buy their players?

 

[bt4421]

That would be the last day I watched Syracuse football. I’ll watch the real teams play

To me that seems narrow minded. I mean, are FBS football teams now "real"? From your point of view, arent only NFL teams "real" because they're at a higher talent level.

 

[bt4421]

In today's landscape and in the days ahead, how much clout does the NCAA carry to ensure that college athletes attend class X amount of time and maintain a sufficient GPA legally? Or is this going to become a has been also? Will it be determined on a case by case basis by each school? How much if any enforcement will exist?

 

[sufandu]

To me that seems narrow minded. I mean, are FBS football teams now "real"? From your point of view, arent only NFL teams "real" because they're at a higher talent level.

That's an interesting point. Why do we care that much about college football? It isn't the highest level. Why don't people get as emotional about triple A baseball as they do major league baseball?

 

[bt4421]

That's an interesting point. Why do we care that much about college football? It isn't the highest level. Why don't people get as emotional about triple A baseball as they do major league baseball?

Everyone has a right to like and not like what they want of course. It is an interesting thing to ponder though like you say. How about this? I'm wondering if something is hyped enough, it can be popular. It's all about the hype. TV exposure etc. So back to the original thought of an "Amateur" college conference, if it receives enough hype, it could thrive. I realize however that it's a big IF for many reasons.

One thing I know, is that there can be every bit as much passion and competivmess, and there is, in lower college divisions as there is in FBS level. There's just not as much national hype.

There's still got to be kids who want to go to a good school for free and maybe receive a small regulated stipend if they're an athlete at the school, and that's enough for them. If it's a league with the rules in place, and kids sign up for it, im no expert, but how at that point could there be lawsuits brought for fair pay etc to rock the boat?

Lastly, I think the argument could be made that syracuse has been at a lower level for two decades and we still were ardent fans. There's a handful of elite schools, then there's the perennial top 25 schools, then there's all the rest. So at syracuse we're already accustomed to not having the best talent. We could be a big fish in a small pond rather than the small fish in the big pond.

Just all speculative and day dreaming at this point. Sorry for rambling. Maybe I need to just come to grips the old days are gone

 

[sufandu]

Everyone has a right to like and not like what they want of course. It is an interesting thing to ponder though like you say. How about this? I'm wondering if something is hyped enough, it can be popular. It's all about the hype. TV exposure etc. So back to the original thought of an "Amateur" college conference, if it receives enough hype, it could thrive. I realize however that it's a big IF for many reasons.

One thing I know, is that there can be every bit as much passion and competivmess, and there is, in lower college divisions as there is in FBS level. There's just not as much national hype.

The problem isn't whether it can be hyped enough. The problem is that you can't force guys to be "amateur." NIL money is not paid by the schools and so the schools have no say in whether or not their athletes can recieve it. Any popular player on any popular team will have some financial opportunity offered to them by someone. And if someone has a vested interest in their favorite team winning, they will make it known that the players on that favorite team will get paid. It simply isn't possible to legislate it out. In fact it is illegal for schools to legislate it out, hence the lawsuit that brought NIL.

 

[FrancoPizza]

That's an interesting point. Why do we care that much about college football? It isn't the highest level.

People identify with colleges either because they went to school there or because it puts their hometown on the map. Professional teams do not meet these criteria. I think it's sad that anyone living in the 315 is a diehard NFL fan. You don't live in Buffalo. Buffalo doesn't care about Syracuse, but they'll gladly take your hard-earned money... and $800M in taxes for a new stadium it doesn't need... because rich people threaten to walk away.

 

[SWC75]

That's an interesting point. Why do we care that much about college football? It isn't the highest level. Why don't people get as emotional about triple A baseball as they do major league baseball?

Minor league teams are not really teams. They are collections of players under contract to the major league team who can call them up or demote them whenever they please. They can also order a manager to play less than his best players because they want to give younger players experience. Also, there isn't a true championship. Even if you have a playoff, there have so many personnel changes the teams often aren't the same team they were for much of the season. It isn't enough to put your community on the map, which is what the smaller markets are looking for.

 

[sufandu]

People identify with colleges either because they went to school there or because it puts their hometown on the map. Professional teams do not meet these criteria. I think it's sad that anyone living in the 315 is a diehard NFL fan. You don't live in Buffalo. Buffalo doesn't care about Syracuse, but they'll gladly take your hard-earned money... and $800M in taxes for a new stadium it doesn't need... because rich people threaten to walk away.

I think that's a valid point and speaks to the symbiotic relationship between the schools and players. The popularity of the sport largely depends on that relationship with the school in their community or that they attended and speaks largely to why college sports are more popular than minor league sports and nearly as popular, more popular in certain regions, as the major pro sports despite the inferior talent level.

 

[bt4421]

The problem isn't whether it can be hyped enough. The problem is that you can't force guys to be "amateur." NIL money is not paid by the schools and so the schools have no say in whether or not their athletes can recieve it. Any popular player on any popular team will have some financial opportunity offered to them by someone. And if someone has a vested interest in their favorite team winning, they will make it known that the players on that favorite team will get paid. It simply isn't possible to legislate it out. In fact it is illegal for schools to legislate it out, hence the lawsuit that brought NIL.

Thanks. I guess your right. I'm a little dense, as I keep thinking the money comes from the schools per say. Thanks for the reminder. So I guess it wouldn't work. We're stuck with what we have, like it or not. Yuck.
Hey, maybe we can come up with a new fight song..."Down the Field goes the 315", or "Lets go 315 clap clap clap clap clap."

 

[SWC75]

Thanks. I guess your right. I'm a little dense, as I keep thinking the money comes from the schools per say. Thanks for the reminder. So I guess it wouldn't work. We're stuck with what we have, like it or not. Yuck.
Hey, maybe we can come up with a new fight song..."Down the Field goes the 315", or "Lets go 315 clap clap clap clap clap."

Which doesn't mean that schools whose NIL capability is at a certain level can't bond together in a new conference, rather than trying to compete with...