2021 NFL Thread

[ssbriefcase]

If the 49ers take Mac Jones at 3 I would be giddy if I were a Dolphins fan.
I can’t believe Mac is the pick. Trading 2 future first round picks for a QB who had perfect protection and elite weapons is just crazy.

It’s why I wasn’t high on Tua. Just watch the Alabama operation. The QB never has to think.

This is a general question as I've heard this point of view from people. Do you say the same when it's a Clemson or LSU qb?

 

[Melancer46]

If the 49ers take Mac Jones at 3 I would be giddy if I were a Dolphins fan.
I can’t believe Mac is the pick. Trading 2 future first round picks for a QB who had perfect protection and elite weapons is just crazy.

It’s why I wasn’t high on Tua. Just watch the Alabama operation. The QB never has to think.

I was high on Tua (and think people have been unfairly harsh about his rookie season, which really wasn't bad especially when considering his return from injury and the supporting cast he had on offense there). But comparing him and Mac, Tua was the more accurate passer and was also much more of a playmaker vs. Mac just being a very good game manager. Tua was my 5th highest rated QB of the past 5 years (including this year's class). Mac is currently #25 with a 3rd round grade.

 

[Melancer46]

This is a general question as I've heard this point of view from people. Do you say the same when it's a Clemson or LSU qb?

It was definitely one of the main things held against Burrow in the lead up to the draft, with the other being that he was a one-hit wonder much like Mac. Ultimately it didn't really matter with Burrow because he was freakishly accurate and just incredible at moving around in the pocket.

It's been held against Lawrence to some extent, but he really wasn't helped by his supporting cast at all this past year and still looked every bit the elite prospect that he is.

 

[ssbriefcase]

It was definitely one of the main things held against Burrow in the lead up to the draft, with the other being that he was a one-hit wonder much like Mac. Ultimately it didn't really matter with Burrow because he was freakishly accurate and just incredible at moving around in the pocket.

It's been held against Lawrence to some extent, but he really wasn't helped by his supporting cast at all this past year and still looked every bit the elite prospect that he is.

Right, I always hear Alabama get knocked this way, but don't hear it put on Clemson or LSU nearly as much although the talent level is splitting hairs between the schools.

 

[Melancer46]

Right, I always hear Alabama get knocked this way, but don't hear it put on Clemson or LSU nearly as much although the talent level is splitting hairs between the schools.

The offensive supporting cast for Lawrence this season was significantly worse than what Burrow and Mac worked with. Both of those guys had elite OLines, 1st round RBs, and maybe 3 first round WRs. This year, Lawrence had Etienne, who was on par with those RBs, but that was really it. His OLine and WRs weren't anything special.

 

[Ryand877]

 

[Alsacs]

This is a general question as I've heard this point of view from people. Do you say the same when it's a Clemson or LSU qb?

Tajh Boyd the Clemson QB before Deshaun Watson didn’t make it in the NFL.

Clemson has Watson and Lawrence 6 of the last 7 seasons. They were elite prospects just from watching them.
I never watched Tua or Mac and thought they were close to the Clemson guys as NFL prospects.

Alabama could have literally had almost any division 1 QB last season and their offense would have been elite.

I never thought the QB was why they were unstoppable.
Elite OL, elite WR. Good RB.

Mac Jones and Tua are good players but they don’t scream franchise NFL QBs.

 

[Alsacs]

I was high on Tua (and think people have been unfairly harsh about his rookie season, which really wasn't bad especially when considering his return from injury and the supporting cast he had on offense there). But comparing him and Mac, Tua was the more accurate passer and was also much more of a playmaker vs. Mac just being a very good game manager. Tua was my 5th highest rated QB of the past 5 years (including this year's class). Mac is currently #25 with a 3rd round grade.

Good stuff I just don’t see it in Tua.
I hope Miami isn’t able to upgrade the QB position.

 

[NateW]

It is funny that folks did not care about politics in football when the NFL was wrapping themselves in the flag, the military and apple pie. It is only when the politics shifted away from them that it became an issue.

So you oppose the American flag, the military, and Apple pie?

It’s now “political” to support and to love where you were born and raised.

It’s now “political” to support and admire the men and women that have fought and died for our freedoms.

It’s now “political” to support a delicious dessert.

Upside down world gets funnier and funnier by the minute.

 

[orange79]

We are not doing this here.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Tajh Boyd the Clemson QB before Deshaun Watson didn’t make it in the NFL.

Clemson has Watson and Lawrence 6 of the last 7 seasons. They were elite prospects just from watching them.
I never watched Tua or Mac and thought they were close to the Clemson guys as NFL prospects.

Alabama could have literally had almost any division 1 QB last season and their offense would have been elite.

I never thought the QB was why they were unstoppable.
Elite OL, elite WR. Good RB.

Mac Jones and Tua are good players but they don’t scream franchise NFL QBs.

Exactly, so the focus changes back to the qb’s themselves and not how much talent is surrounding them, this time at least.

 

[Newhouser]

I was high on Tua (and think people have been unfairly harsh about his rookie season, which really wasn't bad especially when considering his return from injury and the supporting cast he had on offense there). But comparing him and Mac, Tua was the more accurate passer and was also much more of a playmaker vs. Mac just being a very good game manager. Tua was my 5th highest rated QB of the past 5 years (including this year's class). Mac is currently #25 with a 3rd round grade.

Didn't the Heisman winner say he liked Mac better?

 

[Guinness]

If Jerry trades up to take Pitts I will lose it.

Depends. If you really believe he is a generational talent then you do it. Not like any one player in this years draft is going to fix the defense anyway.

 

[chugg21]

Right, I always hear Alabama get knocked this way, but don't hear it put on Clemson or LSU nearly as much although the talent level is splitting hairs between the schools.

It's not splitting hairs. Lawrence played with exactly 0 OL and 0 WR that were/are 1st rd picks. Had Higgins who went in the 2nd last year and did have Etienne in the backfield. Tua and Mac had 4 WRs that will all go in the top 20 of their draft last 2 years and then at least 4 OL that will be 1st/2nd rounders including Willis from last year and then had Najee in the backfield too which is the same as Etienne. Burrow didn't quite match what the Bama guys had but had a minimum of 2 1st rd WRs and possibly 3 if Marshall sneaks into the back end of rd 1. Had Edwards-Helaire as a 1st rd RB with him and had 3 OL drafted last year

 

[NateW]

We are not doing this here.

Why didn’t you say this days ago when the first political post was made? Gee I wonder...

 

[ssbriefcase]

It's not splitting hairs. Lawrence played with exactly 0 OL and 0 WR that were/are 1st rd picks. Had Higgins who went in the 2nd last year and did have Etienne in the backfield. Tua and Mac had 4 WRs that will all go in the top 20 of their draft last 2 years and then at least 4 OL that will be 1st/2nd rounders including Willis from last year and then had Najee in the backfield too which is the same as Etienne. Burrow didn't quite match what the Bama guys had but had a minimum of 2 1st rd WRs and possibly 3 if Marshall sneaks into the back end of rd 1. Had Edwards-Helaire as a 1st rd RB with him and had 3 OL drafted last year

Ok so in this timeframe yes true. What I hear and yes it’s anecdotal but I hear Bama qbs shine because of their talent around them. You could do that with different schools, not many, but Bama isn’t alone depending which timeframe you’re talking. I’m just saying It’s a blanket statement that requires more detail and nuance imo.

 

[chugg21]

Ok so in this timeframe yes true. What I hear and yes it’s anecdotal but I hear Bama qbs shine because of their talent around them. You could do that with different schools, not many, but Bama isn’t alone depending which timeframe you’re talking. I’m just saying It’s a blanket statement that requires more detail and nuance imo.

I agree but it's only really been said about Mac Jones because every Bama QB prior to Tua was a game manager and none of them even sniffed a real NFL career except for AJ McCarron and he's never really done anything. Once the Lane Train rolled into town, things changed and they became explosive. Same could be said for LSU prior to Brady/Burrow too. It was a decade plus of all turds that struggled to figure out how to get up to 21 points each Saturday. Clemson has never been loaded up to that degree. They may be getting there now as they are piling up top 5-8 recruiting classes every year but Lawrence had a really good team around him but nothing like Burrow, Tua, Mac had. Fields definitely had a better supporting cast too.

It makes sense for people to have the concerns about Jones because the talent around him was obscene in a way that I don't think has every applied to any passer before. He was literally surrounded by all 1st and 2nd rd picks in the huddle.

I honestly think it applies to Trey Lance to a pretty high degree too. His team was so superior to everyone that they played each week that not once in his career did he have to lead his team back from a 4th quarter deficit. That's pretty shocking. He also only had over 23 passing attempts once in his college career. I'd be terrified to take him unless I was Atlanta and had a definite full time starter I'm happy with for 2021.

 

[ssbriefcase]

I honestly think it applies to Trey Lance to a pretty high degree too. His team was so superior to everyone that they played each week that not once in his career did he have to lead his team back from a 4th quarter deficit. That's pretty shocking. He also only had over 23 passing attempts once in his college career. I'd be terrified to take him unless I was Atlanta and had a definite full time starter I'm happy with for 2021.

I was listening to our local pundits the other day. They were saying the talent gap for Lance and his team vs the comp was equal to Mac Jones and his teams. Interesting way to put it I thought

 

[Briancuse]

Depends. If you really believe he is a generational talent then you do it. Not like any one player in this years draft is going to fix the defense anyway.

The whole Generational talent thing is getting out of hand. How many generational talents have their been in the history of the league?The best Tight End we ever had was a third round pick. Even if this kid is Travis Kelce. We don't need him. We need help on defense and to.get younger on the online.

 

[orange79]

Why didn’t you say this days ago when the first political post was made? Gee I wonder...

Because I didn't see it. Happy?

 

[NateW]

Because I didn't see it. Happy?

Happy as a clam.

 

[Cowtown]

We are not doing this here.

Thank you.

 

[Melancer46]

Didn't the Heisman winner say he liked Mac better?

Yeah, he won the heisman with the guy, not to mention it would just be messed up to purposefully tear down your teammates' draft stock by saying you liked the previous QB better. Tua's already in the league; it doesn't matter if DeVonta says he liked Mac better. But if he said the opposite, people would start using that against Mac and then that would come back on DeVonta.

 

[Melancer46]

I agree but it's only really been said about Mac Jones because every Bama QB prior to Tua was a game manager and none of them even sniffed a real NFL career except for AJ McCarron and he's never really done anything. Once the Lane Train rolled into town, things changed and they became explosive. Same could be said for LSU prior to Brady/Burrow too. It was a decade plus of all turds that struggled to figure out how to get up to 21 points each Saturday. Clemson has never been loaded up to that degree. They may be getting there now as they are piling up top 5-8 recruiting classes every year but Lawrence had a really good team around him but nothing like Burrow, Tua, Mac had. Fields definitely had a better supporting cast too.

It makes sense for people to have the concerns about Jones because the talent around him was obscene in a way that I don't think has every applied to any passer before. He was literally surrounded by all 1st and 2nd rd picks in the huddle.

I honestly think it applies to Trey Lance to a pretty high degree too. His team was so superior to everyone that they played each week that not once in his career did he have to lead his team back from a 4th quarter deficit. That's pretty shocking. He also only had over 23 passing attempts once in his college career. I'd be terrified to take him unless I was Atlanta and had a definite full time starter I'm happy with for 2021.

Honestly it applies to Lawrence less than almost all the top 8 or so QBs in this draft class. Relative to their competition, Alabama, ND State, BYU, Ohio State, and Florida were all significantly better than Clemson was. The two that had it worse than Lawrence were Kellen Mond at A&M and Davis Mills at Stanford.

 

[chugg21]

The whole Generational talent thing is getting out of hand. How many generational talents have their been in the history of the league?The best Tight End we ever had was a third round pick. Even if this kid is Travis Kelce. We don't need him. We need help on defense and to.get younger on the online.

When did this start becoming a thing to say? I don't really remember it being a thing until the year in the NHL where teams were clearly tanking in hopes of getting McDavid or Eichel.