Not to keep beating a dead horse but (Ticket Sales) | Syracusefan.com

Not to keep beating a dead horse but (Ticket Sales)

JeremyCuse

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No one should be suprised about the lack of predicted turnout or tickets sold to date for Thursdays home opener. At this point I think its been well documented by several posters and admins from this board on why attendance continues to be an issue. I know some contribute it to ticket prices and such but I think thats really not a large issue. I think a few of the issues below are some of the biggest hurdles SU is facing.

1. A small % of the fan base is simply never coming back, period. These fans right or wrong got burnt out under the Old regime with Buzz, Jake, and Coach P and thew in the towel that he was not let go before he was terminated. Some of these fans made there way back for Robinson and even more under Marrone but I know there hundreds if not thousands in this area who still have not come back since the whole "get a life" statement or whatever Buzz said, Its sad but some of these fans are lost forever.

2. Anti-hometown sentiment. This to me is the biggest problem and the most dumbfounding. Syacuse has by far the biggest number of local anti hometown fans I have ever seen. It is mindblowing. I know a lot of football fans on or around my age range that simply have zero interest in going to a Syracuse game and actually openly root for SU to fail. This area is the opposite of what I imagine Penn State, Ohio State, Florida..etc have regarding football support. What is even odder is that a lot of these fans actually like the basketball program but for some reason are fans of FSU, Miami, Penn State, ND anyteam besides SU. There are literally thousands of local college football fans that just hate Syracuse for being Syracuse and arent comign to a game no matter what promotion, price, or opponent the Syracuse administration tries. I know this sounds overblown but its really a problem and under Robinson was an epidemic.

3. Promotion - I know the administration is trying but they really do a horrible job with PR and advertising. I think I have seen maybe a handful of commericals for the opening SU game this year and they are poorly directed. There not only hard to watch but they dont appeal to anyoen other then us diehards who had tickets months ago. With the money this school generates gettign a couple primetime ads on the major sports networks and local affiliates should be a no brainer. We have local ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and other affiliates that should be bombarded with ads and notifications of ticket deals and specials. Instead we have a commercial with Mike Hopkins, Desko, and Floyd Little that the casual local fan has zero idea who 2 out of 3 are. I cant tell you how many times someone has asked me about how season tickets and parkign passes and single game tickets and other things work at the Dome because they have no idea.

4. Parking - I know OrangeExtreme wont like this paragraph but the parking situation at the Dome is a nightmare. For us diehards we could care less but again im talking about the local "casual" fan the Admin is trying to attract not the regulars on this board. I wont re-hash this to death has the issues are well known. There is little to no room to tailgate around the dome and for that matter with the new construction of the law school there is less and less to park. I know some will say Skytop and the shuttle service are the answer but I disagree. Most casual fans who havent been attending games or go to maybe 1-2 a year have no clue about the parking at Manley and shuttle service or simply dont want to/refuse to park there for whatever reason. With the weather and other issues most fans want to be somewhere in the vacinity of the stadium. With the pay lots SU has now and the two parking garages VA/Public SU is meeting some of that demand. But with the current construction makign the roads a mess and lots dissapearing for new building construction the amount of spaces are slowly shrinking and is making it harder to park somewhere in the vacinity of the dome. I hope Dr. Gross really takes a look at perserving some of the pay lots especially the Fine Lot and the surrounding lots as they offer a great tailgating experience and helps the Athletic Dept raise a good chunk of money. As TexanMark noted the finelot is allready sold out this year.

5. Diehard fan base is at its max. - I find it funny when posters come on here to complain about the lack of attendance or Axeman or Marrone will metion it in a radio interview or on TW sports inside syracuse sidelines. Who do you think watches, listens, and comes to these sites = the diehard fan, were not the ones who aren't showing up or opting to watch it on TW sports or ESPN. Your not going to increase attendance by bitching on a post here at Syracusefan.com or having Bud P write some article in the Post Standard as again 95% of that audience is the diehard fan who is allready going to the game and pushing everyone they know to go to. I dont claim to have the answers to solve the attendance problem but please stop posting messages here telling everyone to get to the game. All the local diehards are at the game trust me.

If anyone else has other issues they feel are a factor I would love to hear it.
 

cuseclappy

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i cant disagree with one statement you made, that is all completely dead on stuff..the fact i agree with the most is #2.. numerous people in my office scoff at the idea of going to the game on thursday.

i have su stuff and their schedule hanging up on the wall at my desk and numerous people ask why i waste my time to see them. the general notion is that they are still not worthy of viewing which i could not disagree with more.
 

690West

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2. Anti-hometown sentiment. This to me is the biggest problem and the most dumbfounding. Syacuse has by far the biggest number of local anti hometown fans I have ever seen. It is mindblowing. I know a lot of football fans on or around my age range that simply have zero interest in going to a Syracuse game and actually openly root for SU to fail. This area is the opposite of what I imagine Penn State, Ohio State, Florida..etc have regarding football support. What is even odder is that a lot of these fans actually like the basketball program but for some reason are fans of FSU, Miami, Penn State, ND anyteam besides SU. There are literally thousands of local college football fans that just hate Syracuse for being Syracuse and arent comign to a game no matter what promotion, price, or opponent the Syracuse administration tries. I know this sounds overblown but its really a problem and under Robinson was an epidemic.

This is so freaking spot on!!

I'll also throw in the "Basketball only's" They make me sick.
 

JeremyCuse

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i cant disagree with one statement you made, that is all completely dead on stuff..the fact i agree with the most is #2.. numerous people in my office scoff at the idea of going to the game on thursday.

i have su stuff and their schedule hanging up on the wall at my desk and numerous people ask why i waste my time to see them. the general notion is that they are still not worthy of viewing which i could not disagree with more.

Clappy you couldnt have said it any better, its really a disgrace how some people respond to the fact you go to games or are an SU fan. They act like they cant believe anyone still goes to games like the program suddenly stopped exhisting after Mcnabb left. I work in an office as well and theres only a handfull of fans at most and of those im pretty sure im the only one with season tickets.
 

ForCuseSake

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This is so freaking spot on!!

I'll also throw in the "Basketball only's" They make me sick.

I agree. It pains me to say that my fiancee is a "basketball only". Hoping for a big victory Thursday to speed up her conversion.
 

IthacaBarrel

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I just don't know how or why one would just hate their local team, to not be a fan is one thing, to root against is another. I also agree with the point because I have run into it. Many Syracuse people are so GD negative about anything and everything...

Call me crazy, but I always feel very foturnate to have been able to watch such a high level of football for over 30 years now. People are up. I also tell people, I don't mind if you bitch, if somehow, someway, you support the program, GO TO THE ING GAMES YOU . It's as if they believe a top 10 program is their right
 

JeremyCuse

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I never undestood how someone could be a basketball only, it just makes no sense to me. What do they do forget we have a football team or bury there heads in sand for three months? If anything being an SU fan you would think they woudl branch out to Lax and other National sports, hell Orangeyes started going to SU women softball games in the spring for christ sake.
 

BlackKnight76

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I agree, and to add on to #2, there is a lot of that among the students as well (people rooting for hometown schools, whoever they rooted for pre-SU), although I think most of that has graduated in the last few years, or is in my class.

Winning does amazing things.
 

rrlbees

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Fortunately, I don't think I know anyone that falls into your #2 and outright roots against SU. However, I do know, albeit a small sample size, a few that aren't ging because they aren't happy with the number of weekday games. Also, I know some that didn't renew their season tix because they know all the big OOC games are being moved to NYC. Those little pockets of people add up.
 

JeremyCuse

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Consider yourself lucky Bees it really is a problem and judging from some of the other responses its really an epidemic. I also agree with you about the little pockets adding up especially people dropping tickets or going to less games due to the NYC issue, Gross better be careful about that or hes gonna have a full riot of whats left of the fan base.

Fortunately, I don't think I know anyone that falls into your #2 and outright roots against SU. However, I do know, albeit a small sample size, a few that aren't ging because they aren't happy with the number of weekday games. Also, I know some that didn't renew their season tix because they know all the big OOC games are being moved to NYC. Those little pockets of people add up.
 

Cadillac

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I don't understand the parking complaints.

I park on Lancaster or by the Ed Smith school, then have a nice walk by all the houses where I used to puke and pee in the yards. Sorry about that if you lived in this neighborhood about 10 years ago.

I've parked at 11:30 and been sitting on a silver bleacher by 11:50 for a noon start.

Right down Westcott and I'm on 690 10 minutes after the game.
 

ForCuseSake

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Fortunately, I don't think I know anyone that falls into your #2 and outright roots against SU. However, I do know, albeit a small sample size, a few that aren't ging because they aren't happy with the number of weekday games. Also, I know some that didn't renew their season tix because they know all the big OOC games are being moved to NYC. Those little pockets of people add up.

The SU administration has a history of breaking a fundamental rule of marketing - ignoring/harming existing customers to try to attract new ones. Woeful PR missteps (like "Get a life") and risky attempts to tap new markets (moving games to NJ) say the same thing to the average local (existing customer) who isn't a diehard - your support isn't valued so pound salt.
 

ejz555

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The only thing you left out in my mind is this is a huge bandwagon town. If the team starts out 5-0...the remaining home games will be at the attendance we desire..The losses at home last year had an impact..it was not a good experience..Pitt game had great energy, then the bubble was burst just as soon as it got started..
 

JeremyCuse

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The SU administration has a history of breaking a fundamental rule of marketing - ignoring/harming existing customers to try to attract new ones. Woeful PR missteps (like "Get a life") and risky attempts to tap new markets (moving games to NJ) say the same thing to the average local (existing customer) who isn't a diehard - your support isn't valued so pound salt.

LOL that statement is so true its scary. They are basically doing the same thing now with the few pay tailgate lots around the dome they actually have. Makes no sense and is only hurting there bottom line in the long run.
 

Cuseman78

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Fortunately, I don't think I know anyone that falls into your #2 and outright roots against SU. However, I do know, albeit a small sample size, a few that aren't ging because they aren't happy with the number of weekday games. Also, I know some that didn't renew their season tix because they know all the big OOC games are being moved to NYC. Those little pockets of people add up.

If the CNYers were able to sell out football games (or at least not have 12k empty seats during the home opener), maybe Dr. Gross wouldn't be as inclined to move games to the big city. And for people to actually cancel season tickets because of that? Thats embarrassing. Pity those poor people who have to actually travel every 3 1/2 hours once every other Fall to watch a football game. Boo freakin' hoo.
 

ForCuseSake

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If the CNYers were able to sell out football games (or at least not have 12k empty seats during the home opener), maybe Dr. Gross wouldn't be as inclined to move games to the big city. And for people to actually cancel season tickets because of that? Thats embarrassing. Pity those poor people who have to actually travel every 3 1/2 hours once every other Fall to watch a football game. Boo freakin' hoo.

Chicken/egg. Gross came in and started trying to re-brand SU as NY's College team by focusing on metro NYC. How many non-alumni from Westchester, Manhattan and Long Island drive to CNY for games? Gotta bet not nearly as many as from Buffalo, Rochester, Utica and Albany. Duh-Umb.
 

JeremyCuse

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If the CNYers were able to sell out football games (or at least not have 12k empty seats during the home opener), maybe Dr. Gross wouldn't be as inclined to move games to the big city. And for people to actually cancel season tickets because of that? Thats embarrassing. Pity those poor people who have to actually travel every 3 1/2 hours once every other Fall to watch a football game. Boo freakin' hoo.

Gross isnt moving the games for attendance hes moving it for a $$$$ pay day plain and simple.
Honestly do you think SU is going to sell out Giants/Jets stadium for a game against USC? I know those out of town fans love to rag on the locals for not going to games but when the games get moved or Syracuse is playing away near them how many of them actually go to the games and drum up support from there friends in the area. Will you be attending the USC game next year?
 

dollarbill44

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I don't know about the promotion and parking issues you raise. Anyone who doesn't know how something works in this day and age just doesn't care or isn't trying. The internet has all the info you need. As for parking, it doesn't stop people from going to hoops games. If people complain about it, they are either ignorant about college football or are just looking for an excuse. I have been to several different colleges for football games and SU's situation is not any different than most D1 programs and it is better than many. It takes about the same amount of time to get from your car to your seat as it does at an NFL game, where the stadiums are surrounded by parking.

You are dead on as far as the local sentiment, however, which is a sad testament to the overall attitude about living in CNY. CNYers are right up there with Northern Ohioans for the most pessimistic people in America, imo.
 

JeremyCuse

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I don't know about the promotion and parking issues you raise. Anyone who doesn't know how something works in this day and age just doesn't care or isn't trying. The internet has all the info you need. As for parking, it doesn't stop people from going to hoops games. If people complain about it, they are either ignorant about college football or are just looking for an excuse. I have been to several different colleges for football games and SU's situation is not any different than most D1 programs and it is better than many. It takes about the same amount of time to get from your car to your seat as it does at an NFL game, where the stadiums are surrounded by parking.

You are dead on as far as the local sentiment, however, which is a sad testament to the overall attitude about living in CNY. CNYers are right up there with Northern Ohioans for the most pessimistic people in America, imo.

I dont disagree about your post at all but regarding parking it is a bit easier to park when your talking about 20,000 versus 40,000 people plus theres no tailgate issue to worry about. But I do agree with what your saying in general.
 

TexanMark

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i cant disagree with one statement you made, that is all completely dead on stuff..the fact i agree with the most is #2.. numerous people in my office scoff at the idea of going to the game on thursday.

i have su stuff and their schedule hanging up on the wall at my desk and numerous people ask why i waste my time to see them. the general notion is that they are still not worthy of viewing which i could not disagree with more.

The anti-SU has been around for years among a significant minority in CNY. It was ameliorated somwhat in the 80's and 90s when some of those negatoids became bandwagon fans.

BTW, another factor affecting attendance is the large amount of well paying Union Jobs that have vanished over the last 30 years. Many of those were main breadwinners who liked their sports and ponied up for preferred.
 

Cuseman78

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Chicken/egg. Gross came in and started trying to re-brand SU as NY's College team by focusing on metro NYC. How many non-alumni from Westchester, Manhattan and Long Island drive to CNY for games? Gotta bet not nearly as many as from Buffalo, Rochester, Utica and Albany. Duh-Umb.

I, for one, come from the metro area (season ticket holder) and know many others who do. Syracuse alums don't head in droves to Albany and Syracuse after graduation. They end up in the large cities up and down the east coast. Hence why TGD is attempting to re-brand.

By the way, does buffalo and Albany even know Syracuse football exists? There is a bigger following in NYC (because of the large alumni base) than there are in either of those cities.
 

JeremyCuse

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I, for one, come from the metro area (season ticket holder) and know many others who do. Syracuse alums don't head in droves to Albany and Syracuse after graduation. They end up in the large cities up and down the east coast. Hence why TGD is attempting to re-brand.

By the way, does buffalo and Albany even know Syracuse football exists? There is a bigger following in NYC (because of the large alumni base) than there are in either of those cities.

I agree with you there, a better effort is needed in Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, the Southern Tier, Bighamton, even Utica. We could draw well from those areas, heck Utica is 40 minutes away and they lost all of there minor league teams years ago.
 

Cuseman78

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Gross isnt moving the games for attendance hes moving it for a $$$$ pay day plain and simple.
Honestly do you think SU is going to sell out Giants/Jets stadium for a game against USC? I know those out of town fans love to rag on the locals for not going to games but when the games get moved or Syracuse is playing away near them how many of them actually go to the games and drum up support from there friends in the area. Will you be attending the USC game next year?

I work in NYC so yes, of course I will be going. I have season tickets now and I will be there on Thursday. So I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for those that have to actually do the reverse commute (4 hours) that I do 7 times a fall, one time every couple of years.
 

JeremyCuse

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The anti-SU has been around for years among a significant minority in CNY. It was ameliorated somwhat in the 80's and 90s when some of those negatoids became bandwagon fans.

BTW, another factor affecting attendance is the large amount of well paying Union Jobs that have vanished over the last 30 years. Many of those were main breadwinners who liked their sports and ponied up for preferred.

Its much worse now Mark, I hesitate to even use the word Minority at this point there are so many anti-SU fans.
 

Cuseman78

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I agree with you there, a better effort is needed in Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, the Southern Tier, Bighamton, even Utica. We could draw well from those areas, heck Utica is 40 minutes away and they lost all of there minor league teams years ago.

Yes, I always wondered why there wasn't a bigger following within an hour/2 hr radius around Syracuse. It seems pretty obvious to me that people in Utica or Binghamton or Rochester should root for Syracuse University in everything.
 

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