Offense with nassib will never be good, I am convinced

[IthacaBarrel]

Of it unless you surround him with great talent,we will see another tough year on offense, we need our best athlete at qb.we don't have enough great athletes to support a qb that cant make big plays running the ball let alone an o line that can provide quality protection or Run blocking, need a broyld type athlete not these game managers, we just will never have the talent to support it, it's sucked for 15 years more or less

I expect the offense to struggle terribly once again however I still believe the overall record can improve by a game. I just don't see big additions other than sales and Bailey/Provo will be missed. Thompson is a year away as is Morris. Funderburke as well.

As otto said a bunch of #2 receivers and #2 running backs,doesn't change my outlook but the offense will still suck that much I know, by not suck mean top 50-55 Overall ranking

 

[SoBristol]

Are you suggesting we have a "best athlete" to put at QB this year? The best all-around athletes on the team likely are Ashton Broyld, Marcus Pierce-Brewster, Kennan Hale -- maybe Reddish or Morgan. The younger QB candidates (Hunt & Kinder) haven't shown enough to create competition with Nassib.

This offense will struggle until the OTs settle in (need Pugh back); and until at least one WR and one RB recruited by Marrone show something.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Are you suggesting we have a "best athlete" to put at QB this year? The best all-around athletes on the team likely are Ashton Broyld, Marcus Pierce-Brewster, Kennan Hale -- maybe Reddish or Morgan. The younger QB candidates (Hunt & Kinder) haven't shown enough to create competition with Nassib.

This offense will struggle until the OTs settle in (need Pugh back); and until at least one WR and one RB recruited by Marrone show something.

I suggest that broyld start next year yes, you know what I meant. The offense with nassib has no margin for error and requires precision as there is not much opportunity for bigger plays, so he can have a ton of 12 play drives that get zero points, this is the complete opposite of what college football has become, watch the game

If we wanted to build for future success I would start broyld instead of stagnating his future growth by misusing him this entire year, the issue is he may not throw the ball that accurately but nor does nassib?

 

[upperdeck]

one thing that i take from the scrimmage.. the offense did not run to try and beat the D, nor did the D try to pound the O.. they ran plays mostly to put players in positions to see how they would do. without a game plan or great playmakeers i dont see how this offense is just going to pound away at another team, nor will they look very good at at trying.

we could play fairly well and still lose to NW/USC/Minn, unless we beat USC we wont know if this team has really dont any improving unless we handle stony broke by a solid amount and good efforts on both sides of the ball.. by then we will also more than likely be able to tell if NW/Minn games were good efforts no matter how the scores went.

 

[kcsu]

I suggest that broyld start next year yes, you know what I meant. The offense with nassib has no margin for error and requires precision as there is not much opportunity for bigger plays, so he can have a ton of 12 play drives that get zero points, this is the complete opposite of what college football has become, watch the game

If we wanted to build for future success I would start broyld instead of stagnating his future growth by misusing him this entire year, the issue is he may not throw the ball that accurately but nor does nassib?

Im home visiting family and we were hanging with an ex su great last night who feels exactly as you do IB he said simply that in todays game you put the ball in the play makers hand. If you are fortunate as a coach to have and Ath who plays QB and is a great playmaker you leave him at QB. His call was to use Ash at QB for a series or so early in each game and to stick with him at QB if Nassib wasnt able to move the team. He said that Ash could always be put in the slot or at rb as well but to not have him getting significant reps at qb after watching him play in hs and last year was a huge waste of his talent and a major mistake on the staffs part. I wont name names but in any x su player knows a thing or two about the game and coaching this guy is it.

 

[RF2044]

If we had a serviceable OL, then a player like Nassib would be perfectly fine [and probably look significantly above average]. We'd be able to run the ball effectively, keep defenses honest, and he'd have time to sit back and let plays develop / make throws.

In a situation where the QB rarely has time to throw and the subpar play of the OL makes things perpetually unsettled, then I agree that having a top flight athlete would help the offense make something out of nothing on plays that break down.

In my opinion, Nassib isn't the main reason that the offense is anemic. Not completely absolving him, either, but his limitations are exaggerated by some.

 

[retro44]

good lord...the season hasn't started yet and we already have these kinds of posts in multiple threads.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If we had a serviceable OL, then a player like Nassib would be perfectly fine [and probably look above average]. We'd be able to run the ball effectively, keep defenses honest, and he'd have time to sit back and let plays develop / make throws.

In a situation where the QB rarely has time to throw and the subpar play of the OL makes things perpetually unsettled, then I agree that having a top flight athlete would help.


In my opinion, Nassib isn't the main reason that the offense is anemic. Not completely absolving him, either, but his limitations are exaggerated by some.

I just don't think this will ever happen, in college football if one player can make a huge
difference on an entire team it's at qb making average talent look better than it actually is

 

[RF2044]

I just don't think this will ever happen, in college football if one player can make a huge
difference on an entire team it's at qb making average talent look better than it actually is

What will "ever happen?" That we'll have an OL that can perform adequately? Or do you mean specifically this season [meaning I misinterpreted what you mean by "ever?"]

 

[gmoney44]

The oline will once again be our achilles heel. We will never have a consistent reliable offense until this unit is at least serviceable.

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[OrangePA]

Of it unless you surround him with great talent,we will see another tough year on offense, we need our best athlete at qb.we don't have enough great athletes to support a qb that cant make big plays running the ball let alone an o line that can provide quality protection or Run blocking, need a broyld type athlete not these game managers, we just will never have the talent to support it, it's sucked for 15 years more or less

I expect the offense to struggle terribly once again however I still believe the overall record can improve by a game. I just don't see big additions other than sales and Bailey/Provo will be missed. Thompson is a year away as is Morris. Funderburke as well.

As otto said a bunch of #2 receivers and #2 running backs,doesn't change my outlook but the offense will still suck that much I know, by not suck mean top 50-55 Overall ranking

I agree that Ryan Nassib is a workman-like QB who at least based on what we have seen so far will not win games with his arm or feet.

And I think at this point in the development of the program we need a guy who can do that - heck most college teams need a guy who can do that.

But, I watched some highlights from WVU that somebody posted a few days ago and I noticed that Ryan ran a read option a few times during that game - he ran the ball for a TD - gave the ball up the ball on a hand-off for a TD on one play and he pulled the ball from the RB and hit a pop pass I think to a TE for a TD on one play.

Maybe we will see more of that this year.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

The offense with nassib has no margin for error and requires precision as there is not much opportunity for bigger plays, so he can have a ton of 12 play drives that get zero points, this is the complete opposite of what college football has become, watch the game

This, to me, hits the nail right on the head. But I dont think that's necessarily Nassib's fault, and I believe he is a much better athlete than he is given credit.

At the same time though, i refuse to believe our skilled players are worse then the kids at Toledo or some other school of the same ilk, that seem to have no problem moving the ball and pointing points on the board. It's time to open things up this year. Maybe this is a false dichotomy, but if this offense can complete one-third of its 10 yard passes, and two thirds of its 3 or 4 yard plays, we are better served taking more shots, even if it means missing more often.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that our offense needs a really good athletic QB?

Folks, I hate to break it to you, but "let's have a really good QB that does more things than the last guy" is not a system.

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[Geode]

Sounds like we should just cancel the season. Foregone conclusion is that we suck once again.

 

[RF2044]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that our offense needs a really good athletic QB?

Folks, I hate to break it to you, but "let's have a really good QB that does more things than the last guy" is not a system.

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Honestly, I'm really tired of complaints about "THE SYSTEM." Personally speaking, I couldn't care less what system we run, provided we move the ball and put points on the board.

 

[Cuseregular]

I suggest that broyld start next year yes, you know what I meant. The offense with nassib has no margin for error and requires precision as there is not much opportunity for bigger plays, so he can have a ton of 12 play drives that get zero points, this is the complete opposite of what college football has become, watch the game

If we wanted to build for future success I would start broyld instead of stagnating his future growth by misusing him this entire year, the issue is he may not throw the ball that accurately but nor does nassib?

gotta give Nassib his last shot, however, that said expecting anything different is like the definition of insanity....keep doing the same would one really expect any different.

As soon as he inevitably struggles mightily and a bowl season becomes in jeopardy, get AB in there. Especially since his best asset is in making things happen in the QB position which makes it less likely he'll get hurt as he dictates moves and actions. By playing positions he's never played in as is unfamilar with that give the D a step as he negotiates his positioning it sets up a big guy like this as a sitting duck so I'm really concerned with injuries with him. This is less likely at Qb where he can position himself better to take hits as he takes off.

Regardless with our staff the chance of this happening are slim to none and Slim has likely already left town...

 

[Cuseregular]

I just don't think this will ever happen, in college football if one player can make a huge
difference on an entire team it's at qb making average talent look better than it actually is

eggsactly. Even if it requires a toning down of the multiplicity of the Offense, even with a tone down playbook book a playmaker still has a large net positive effect. I just don't see it however even if Nassib struggles due the various reasons RF points out. We've all been saying the same things 3 years now but for the first time there does appear to be an alternative. Not holding my breath, however, that Marrone and Co. will go that route however which is gonna suck for usfans.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I think AB will play a lot more than people think. We could be like rutgers the last few years with Sanu running the wildcat. When all else fails just run the wildcat 30 times a game. If it works and you cant stop it then you keep running it. Agree with IB, on his points.

 

[Hoov50]

Of it unless you surround him with great talent,we will see another tough year on offense, we need our best athlete at qb.we don't have enough great athletes to support a qb that cant make big plays running the ball let alone an o line that can provide quality protection or Run blocking, need a broyld type athlete not these game managers, we just will never have the talent to support it, it's sucked for 15 years more or less

I expect the offense to struggle terribly once again however I still believe the overall record can improve by a game. I just don't see big additions other than sales and Bailey/Provo will be missed. Thompson is a year away as is Morris. Funderburke as well.

As otto said a bunch of #2 receivers and #2 running backs,doesn't change my outlook but the offense will still suck that much I know, by not suck mean top 50-55 Overall ranking

It's even more discouraging when the offensive coordinator has stated that we will be running the same offense. Even in our Pinstripe Bowl season the offense wasn't very good the majority of the time. Our best wins (with the exception of Cincy) were Rutgers, South Florida and West Virginia and were all won by our defense. The bowl game we opened up the offense a little bit and won a shoot out. I think Nassib is a quality D1 QB, but Is going to have his struggles behind an average, at best, offensive line and in a system that doesn't adjust well to the strengths of the players on the field.

 

[kcsu]

when you have a great O and great playmakers having a nassib run the show would be great but when your O is suspect at best and your playmaker is Sales at Wr you take the one guy who can make something out of nothing the one guy who the D has to be worried about every single snap and you give him the ball every single snap. Not 5 time on designed plays but every play. One break down by the D and Ash is gone. Now is it going to be one out of 5 or 10 snaps when he is at RB or in the slot or is it going to be a couple when he has his hands on the ball every play. A kid like this 6-4 230 pounds who throws the ball pretty well set all kinds of records in HS is a total freak of nature needs the ball in his hands.

 

[RF2044]

I think AB will play a lot more than people think. We could be like rutgers the last few years with Sanu running the wildcat. When all else fails just run the wildcat 30 times a game. If it works and you cant stop it then you keep running it.

I agree with this. Marrone's first year, we ran the wildcat quite effectively in some games, even just as a change of pace--and that was with Bailey [a non-QB] taking the snap.

I'm not suggesting that Broyld is Peyton Manning, but I know he can throw--once he shows what he can do and defenses need to start game planning for him, having him back there gives us a lot of flexibility / versatility. My prediction is that opposing DC's will resort to playing more base packages / conservative to account for him being dual threat, which will open things up for other players--not just Broyld. My prediction is that in addition to wing back / modified WR, that Broyld gets some snaps at QB. If it goes like I expect it to early on, he may get more touches in that capacity as the season wears on.

 

[rrlbees]

If we had a serviceable OL, then a player like Nassib would be perfectly fine [and probably look above average]. We'd be able to run the ball effectively, keep defenses honest, and he'd have time to sit back and let plays develop / make throws.

In a situation where the QB rarely has time to throw and the subpar play of the OL makes things perpetually unsettled, then I agree that having a top flight athlete would help the offense make something out of nothing on plays that break down.

In my opinion, Nassib isn't the main reason that the offense is anemic. Not completely absolving him, either, but his limitations are exaggerated by some.

Exactly RF. Everything I have heard this preseason is that while some guys are struggling at several positions, the OL remains the achilles heel.

Those who think a different "more athletic" QB will all of a sudden make the offense better or more dangerous, are missing a lot of basics. That more athletic QB doesn't make the OL not miss blocks or the WR/TE not drop a pass or run a better route or the RB run faster or harder or hit the right hole. What the more athletic QB does is when something breaks down, he can get something with his legs. But how many other plays don't happen because that more athletic QB can't make the pass, makes the wrong read, makes the wrong audible, etc?

We gain in a handful of plays but lose in many more especially when that more athletic QB is a true frosh with passing mechanic issues being worked on.

We all see the big plays made by other athletic QB's like Denard Robinson and Geno Smith and think we should have something similar. But those guys have far better OL's and other positions that make those broken plays work also. It's one thing for a play to break down and a QB to take off to open space and another have a play break down and the QB take off with 5 guys chasing your butt because nobody was touched. Their 20 yard scampers are our 5 yard scampers. Plus we toss out 1/2 the play book for a frosh and he can't make the pass on 1/2 the pass plays. Not worth it right now. There is a huge gap between Nassib and the others right now and that includes Broyld.

The OL, regardless of the QB, needs to be able to do the basics. They don't need to be super. But they need to be able to keep the QB from getting hit on the 2nd step of a 3 step drop, they need to be able to sometimes give the QB that extra 1/2 second on a 5 step drop to make a read and go through their progressions, they need to let the RB get to the 2nd level sometimes so they can make a play. Always getting hit at the LOS and having to try and make a play isn't going to help any RB look good.

We have at least average to above average WR's, RB's and QB, but a below average OL that doesn't allow the other positions to maximize their talents. Would it help if we had an AA at QB? Sure, but not many schools have one. We actually have a QB that is better than the QB on most of the teams we play, but I am sure a weaker OL than most. But like I said above, a different QB that is more athletic will help in some ways but in the bigger picture will hurt in even more.

It's not the QB, it's not the system, it is the OL. In their defense a little, when Pugh comes back we get better at 2 spots. LT and wherever Hickey moves to. All teams have injuries but it hurts us when it is the LT and our only above average OL right now. We haven't recruited well at OL at all no matter what some think and we haven't for what seems forever. Personally I think it has to do with playing indoors on a turf, but that's a discussion for another thread.

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[RF2044]

Exactly RF. Everything I have heard this preseason is that while some guys are struggling at several positions, the OL remains the achilles heel.

Those who think a different "more athletic" QB will all of a sudden make the offense better or more dangerous, are missing a lot of basics. That more athletic QB doesn't make the OL not miss blocks or the WR/TE not drop a pass or run a better route or the RB run faster or harder or hit the right hole. What the more athletic QB does is when something breaks down, he can get something with his legs. But how many other plays don't happen because that more athletic QB can't make the pass, makes the wrong read, makes the wrong audible, etc?

We gain in a handful of plays but lose in many more especially when that more athletic QB is a true frosh with passing mechanic issues being worked on.

We all see the big plays made by other athletic QB's like Denard Robinson and Geno Smith and think we should have something similar. But those guys have far better OL's and other positions that make those broken plays work also. It's one thing for a play to break down and a QB to take off to open space and another have a play break down and the QB take off with 5 guys chasing your butt because nobody was touched. Their 20 yard scampers are our 5 yard scampers. Plus we toss out 1/2 the play book for a frosh and he can't make the pass on 1/2 the pass plays. Not worth it right now. There is a huge gap between Nassib and the others right now and that includes Broyld.

The OL, regardless of the QB, needs to be able to do the basics. They don't need to be super. But they need to be able to keep the QB from getting hit on the 2nd step of a 3 step drop, they need to be able to sometimes give the QB that extra 1/2 second on a 5 step drop to make a read and go through their progressions, they need to let the RB get to the 2nd level sometimes so they can make a play. Always getting hit at the LOS and having to try and make a play isn't going to help any RB look good.

We have at least average to above average WR's, RB's and QB, but a below average OL that doesn't allow the other positions to maximize their talents. Would it help if we had an AA at QB? Sure, but not many schools have one. We actually have a QB that is better than the QB on most of the teams we play, but I am sure a weaker OL than most. But like I said above, a different QB that is more athletic will help in some ways but in the bigger picture will hurt in even more.

It's not the QB, it's not the system, it is the OL. In their defense a little, when Pugh comes back we get better at 2 spots. LT and wherever Hickey moves to. All teams have injuries but it hurts us when it is the LT and our only above average OL right now. We haven't recruited well at OL at all no matter what some think and we haven't for what seems forever. Personally I think it has to do with playing indoors on a turf, but that's a discussion for another thread.

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Tremendous post--agree 100%.

 

[Rocco]

Of it unless you surround him with great talent,we will see another tough year on offense, we need our best athlete at qb.we don't have enough great athletes to support a qb that cant make big plays running the ball let alone an o line that can provide quality protection or Run blocking, need a broyld type athlete not these game managers, we just will never have the talent to support it, it's sucked for 15 years more or less

I expect the offense to struggle terribly once again however I still believe the overall record can improve by a game. I just don't see big additions other than sales and Bailey/Provo will be missed. Thompson is a year away as is Morris. Funderburke as well.

As otto said a bunch of #2 receivers and #2 running backs,doesn't change my outlook but the offense will still suck that much I know, by not suck mean top 50-55 Overall ranking

Were you there yesterday? Nassib isn't the problem if anything right now.

 

[Cuseregular]

Exactly RF. Everything I have heard this preseason is that while some guys are struggling at several positions, the OL remains the achilles heel.

Those who think a different "more athletic" QB will all of a sudden make the offense better or more dangerous, are missing a lot of basics. That more athletic QB doesn't make the OL not miss blocks or the WR/TE not drop a pass or run a better route or the RB run faster or harder or hit the right hole. What the more athletic QB does is when something breaks down, he can get something with his legs. But how many other plays don't happen because that more athletic QB can't make the pass, makes the wrong read, makes the wrong audible, etc?

We gain in a handful of plays but lose in many more especially when that more athletic QB is a true frosh with passing mechanic issues being worked on.

We all see the big plays made by other athletic QB's like Denard Robinson and Geno Smith and think we should have something similar. But those guys have far better OL's and other positions that make those broken plays work also. It's one thing for a play to break down and a QB to take off to open space and another have a play break down and the QB take off with 5 guys chasing your butt because nobody was touched. Their 20 yard scampers are our 5 yard scampers. Plus we toss out 1/2 the play book for a frosh and he can't make the pass on 1/2 the pass plays. Not worth it right now. There is a huge gap between Nassib and the others right now and that includes Broyld.

The OL, regardless of the QB, needs to be able to do the basics. They don't need to be super. But they need to be able to keep the QB from getting hit on the 2nd step of a 3 step drop, they need to be able to sometimes give the QB that extra 1/2 second on a 5 step drop to make a read and go through their progressions, they need to let the RB get to the 2nd level sometimes so they can make a play. Always getting hit at the LOS and having to try and make a play isn't going to help any RB look good.

We have at least average to above average WR's, RB's and QB, but a below average OL that doesn't allow the other positions to maximize their talents. Would it help if we had an AA at QB? Sure, but not many schools have one. We actually have a QB that is better than the QB on most of the teams we play, but I am sure a weaker OL than most. But like I said above, a different QB that is more athletic will help in some ways but in the bigger picture will hurt in even more.

It's not the QB, it's not the system, it is the OL. In their defense a little, when Pugh comes back we get better at 2 spots. LT and wherever Hickey moves to. All teams have injuries but it hurts us when it is the LT and our only above average OL right now. We haven't recruited well at OL at all no matter what some think and we haven't for what seems forever. Personally I think it has to do with playing indoors on a turf, but that's a discussion for another thread.

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actually cant disagree with a lot of what you wrote, but a few points. AB having spent a year in prep school and making the likely assumption that he was provided a playbook, he should not be looked at as just a freshman. Combined with the fact that he already has a NFL body starts to suggest he's ahead of the learning curve of a regular wet behind the ears freshman. I've seen this guy up close, talked with him, watched him make ALL the throws. He can make every type throw. Maybe not with the perfect form of a classic drop back guy, but effective enough.

If they're rying to square peg him in a round hole it will be fruitless as he's most effective as running qb. Do as kcsu and the SU great suggests, give him the ball. Do as other posters suggest, alter your system to fit the talents. As for Nassib if one defines qb as a classic drop back guy then maybe he's one of the better BE qb's, but if the classification is just as a qb then he's middle tier in my eyes at best. At least to date, lets hope for a miracle change this season but I can't imagine any significant change.

I understand the meat of what you're saying, but even with that said if we're losing does it make any difference to lose with kid making errors as you note vs. losing with a guy who just cant get the job done (duly noted with massive contributions from the inadequancies of the others around him)? At least by going with the youth movement you've got eyes toward the future. And if things get bad and we don't see a change then once again we'll see locker room issues.

Now all that said, I do think you've got to give your loyal hard working senior his shot for quite a while. But as soon as we sniff that a bowl is unlkely and its status quo more of the same, then in this business of football at this level its' time to say thank you for your loyality and hard work but it's time for a fresh approach and change. That's why I phrased it the way I did in earlier posts, wait and see, and as also already posted if things tank then the change with having a playmaker even in the face of all the accurate things you said, the change will likely be a net positive effect.

Even if not seen in the W-L column, if its near or at the same record the net positive is your working toward the future. That said like the SU great suggested,this kid is likely to result in not just a net positive, but a huge net positive. This even with all the limitations you noted.

Come on Ryan make it happen, do well, shut up us naysayers and make all this moot, but if not understand its time to step aside.