Class of 2022 - OL Joe Cruz (NY) SIGNED NLI TO SYRACUSE (12/15/2021) | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2022 OL Joe Cruz (NY) SIGNED NLI TO SYRACUSE (12/15/2021)

PhatOrange said:
A couple of west coast OL dissed us but that should've been expected. I noted in the fine print with this kids' commitment they gave him a very short deadline to decide. I found that very interesting.
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Was it Cruz or the WR from MD with the deadline? Or both?
 
tep624 said:
I'm not going to get in some pissing match about something that can't be quantified until 2-3 years down the road. Maybe his egg hatches a chicken and maybe it's just an egg. Maybe he becomes Justin Pugh. Maybe he becomes Jon Burton, who also had fantastic measurables. You could say that about any recruit, at any position, irrespective of how heavily recruited they are or not. And landing blue chip recruits and recruiting blue chip recruits are two different things. We've always recruited blue chip lineman, we just do an atrocious job historically of landing them.

But what can be quantified is that, undeniably, we are now landing recruits who are very lightly recruited at positions where we were recruiting multiple heavier recruited prospects that we missed on. WR is the same situation. And who knows what the hell we're doing at QB now. 3 Positions that haven't exactly been strengths lately.
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Kapoi picked San Diego State though and turned down 7 Pac-12 offers.

Matt Fries picked Illinois. IDK, I think both were a little weird.

I think there are still a # of OL with outstanding offers who haven't picked yet.

There is a b-list vibe for some reason but I don't know if it's fair. QPrice was/is a 4 star kid and Basette, Mason, Wilson are way above average gets. Add in Mason. About half our current class.

edit: meant add in Davis
 
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RF2044 said:
Then don't.

You're the one complaining about us landing a kid who has very solid physical measureables and athleticism. Others in this thread have already pointed out that he's underrecruited as a function of not having camps and the disruption to last year's season due to coronavirus.

If you want to complain about WR recruiting or QB recruiting -- there are threads for that. But there's no reason to overreact to the coaching staff landing a solid in-state prospect.

There's a big difference between landing a guy in the summer, right after he's been on campus and we've had a chance to evaluate him -- and taking a prospect in November because we've missed out on other recruits. The latter is a B or C lister. The summer guy is not.
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Said what I had to say and my position is pretty clear on it. I’m not belaboring this any further.
 
There’s going to be a lot of weird recruiting misses and reshuffling due to the pandemic. Kids who had no offers blowing up in two years at Western Michigan who prob would have earned a Michigan shout.
 
PhatOrange said:
Kapoi picked San Diego State though and turned down 7 Pac-12 offers.

Matt Fries picked Illinois. IDK, I think both were a little weird.

I think there are still a # of OL with outstanding offers who haven't picked yet.

There is a b-list vibe for some reason but I don't know if it's fair. QPrice was/is a 4 star kid and Basette, Mason, Wilson are way above average gets. Add in Mason. About half our current class.
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That’s basically what I was getting at before RF’s Ra-Ra rant. The sequence of events gives a B list vibe whether that’s fair or not.

I like the defensive recruits so far. But the offense has been the problem the past 2 years and we’re in August now without much to show on that side as far as recruiting is concerned. Especially if Lequint Allen ends up as a DB which seems to be a possibility.
 
Recruiting is weird now with covid and the portal. If I was a coach outside of NY I'd barely look at NY kids if at all because they don't put out large volume of high profile recruits. That said, coaches like Cruz more than any of the eleventy billion players in the portal so that says something.
 
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PhatOrange said:
Kapoi picked San Diego State though and turned down 7 Pac-12 offers.

Matt Fries picked Illinois. IDK, I think both were a little weird.

I think there are still a # of OL with outstanding offers who haven't picked yet.

There is a b-list vibe for some reason but I don't know if it's fair. QPrice was/is a 4 star kid and Basette, Mason, Wilson are way above average gets. Add in Mason. About half our current class.
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There was some of this sentiment about several of our recruits last year, and then they were reevaulated and upgraded and a lot of that chatter went away.

I would be shocked -- shocked -- if Cruz doesn't end up as a solid three-star recruit once the dust settles. And of course, stars / ratings are only one aspect of gauging a recruit's worth. I fully acknowledge that this kid doesn't have impressive offers [another useful measuring stick].

The recruiting services generally do a good job of evaluating the top prospects, but a much poorer job as you go down the list. So you have to dig a little bit deeper to try to assess whether a guy is a solid pickup or a warm body. The size and athletic attributes [baked up a bit by that NYC combine] are good data points, as well.


Edit -- I totally get why people feel that way about Donovan Brown. On paper, it is a big gamble. If they'd had "Athlete" as his designation instead of "WR," I wonder if the initial blowback would have been so intense. But I clearly get the b-list vibes there.
 
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They give initial offers out. Doesnt mean they are going to recuit them as hard as others. The more they get to know some of the kids the more red flags pop up. Some of them are exposed on campus trips. Could be things they dont like about their personality, the vibes they get. etc.. I had kids who turned off coaches because they were so wishy washy with them. They will say one thing and not follow through. They wouldnt return phone calls or texts. Those are just examples of how coaches might stop pursuing a kid. We can't make the assumption that every offeree that commit elsewhere is a miss.
 
ImperialOrange said:
Recruiting is weird now with covid and the portal. If I was a coach outside of NY I'd barely look at NY kids if at all because they don't put out large volume of high profile recruits. That said, coaches like Cruz more than any of the eleventh billion players in the portal so that says something.
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Because of NY's reputation some really good players get over looked. Ive seen several NY guys relocate to different states and immediately get offers. They are they same player they were before they left lol. Just because there isnt a lot of prospects it doesnt mean the prosects in the state arent good. Some are just under evaluated or over looked.
 
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Keep in mind Joe just finished his juinor season a few months ago and it was only 6 games. Schools didnt have a lot of time to evaluate him. He attended camps but Im sure a lot of schools were waiting to see a full senior season.
 
RF2044 said:
There was some of this sentiment about several of our recruits last year, and then they were reevaulated and upgraded and a lot of that chatter went away.

I would be shocked -- shocked -- if Cruz doesn't end up as a solid three-star recruit once the dust settles. And of course, stars / ratings are only one aspect of gauging a recruit's worth. I fully acknowledge that this kid doesn't have impressive offers [another useful measuring stick].

The recruiting services generally do a good job of evaluating the top prospects, but a much poorer job as you go down the list. So you have to dig a little bit deeper to try to assess whether a guy is a solid pickup or a warm body. The size and athletic attributes [baked up a bit by that NYC combine] are good data points, as well.


Edit -- I totally get why people feel that way about Donovan Brown. On paper, it is a big gamble. If they'd had "Athlete" as his designation instead of "WR," I wonder if the initial blowback would have been so intense. But I clearly get the b-list vibes there.
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You can both be right. There can be some concern that the staff seems to have suddenly put out a bunch of offers to guys with zero MAC offers, much less Power 5 and this guy can also have some real untapped potential. I don't think it's a coincidence that the positions we have struggled most the last few years (OL, QB) are the same ones where the commits have had the most underwhelming offer lists.
I do like a couple of OL from last year's class.
 
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orangepassion said:
You can both be right. There can be some concern that the staff seems to have suddenly put out a bunch of offers to guys with zero MAC offers, much less Power 5 and this guy can also have some real untapped potential. I don't think it's a coincidence that the positions we have struggled most the last few years (OL, QB) are the same ones where the commits have had the most underwhelming offer lists.
I do like a couple of OL from last year's class.
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Agreed. Let's see where this kid's rating shakes out -- the perception could be much different down the road, after he's been evaluated by the recruiting services.

With respect to the OL we brought in from the class of 2021 -- Enrique Cruz was a stud prospect, but the others show a pattern. They're all 6-4, 6-5, or 6-6 guys who are relatively light [in the 265 - 280 range], but with good athleticism. Guys that the coaching staff feel that they can "grow" into the position without sacrificing the athleticism / lateral mobility. That probably will be a 2 to 3 year process for most of these guys, which is a good thing. As third year sophomores or fourth year juniors, and being immersed in a college S&C program while they develop, they'll form the nucleus of a big, deep, quality OL.

Guys who are 6-6 300 pounds land at the factories, and are more ready to be immediate contributors. We have to grow ours, which necessitates adding as many big, athletic guys who fit this mold into the pipeline as possible, and letting the coaches / S&C staff coach them up. Joe Cruz fits the mold of this type of developmental prospect with good upside.

Here's hoping Schmidt -- a guy from a program like SDSU that has to similarly coach guys up instead of plugging in blue chip prospects -- is up to the task.
 
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orangepassion said:
You can both be right. There can be some concern that the staff seems to have suddenly put out a bunch of offers to guys with zero MAC offers, much less Power 5 and this guy can also have some real untapped potential. I don't think it's a coincidence that the positions we have struggled most the last few years (OL, QB) are the same ones where the commits have had the most underwhelming offer lists.
I do like a couple of OL from last year's class.
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The ironic thing is that in my original post I never said we shouldn’t recruit sleepers or developmental prospects. My concern was more as to directionally where is this class going?

Here’s the deal - if we don’t start having classes where year, year out we are bringing in minimum 4-6 recruits that are ready to impact the 2 deep and/or start based on talent and physical readiness, and not because we have no one else, then we will never be regularly competitive in the ACC.

We had momentum with the 2019 class and then the 5-7 season just killed us.
 
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RF2044 said:
Yeah -- that's me. Rah rah rah, with no perspective on the recruit or his capabilities.
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I honestly don't see how you can criticize someone for not drinking the Kool-Aid.

In no way being critical of Cruz, but it looks like we're closing on the best people who are willing to sign with us. For the most part, they're not highly-regarded recruits, and other schools at our level aren't beating down the doors for them.

I've been through enough 'I trust the coaches' threads over the years here. The successful coaches ultimately warranted them, the unsuccessful coaches didn't.

I trust that the coaches are doing the best they can. Obviously. But we're not dealing from a position of strength with prospective recruits. Might as well accept the likelihood that we're gonna need some lightly-recruited kids to outperform their offers in order for Coach B to be successful. And it's not like he has all the time in the world to do that.

Trying to inject a dose of reality is not the same as being negative.
 
RF2044 said:
Then don't.

You're the one complaining about us landing a kid who has very solid physical measureables and athleticism. Others in this thread have already pointed out that he's underrecruited as a function of not having camps and the disruption to last year's season due to coronavirus.

If you want to complain about WR recruiting or QB recruiting -- there are threads for that. But there's no reason to overreact to the coaching staff landing a solid in-state prospect.

There's a big difference between landing a guy in the summer, right after he's been on campus and we've had a chance to evaluate him -- and taking a prospect in November because we've missed out on other recruits. The latter is a B or C lister. The summer guy is not.
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Agreed and let's not forget that our "other" Cruz was the number 1 OL prospect from the state of Illinois last year.

Besides, there are numerous OL drafted in the early rounds from none P5 schools every year. More evidence that the OL positions might be more difficult to assess and/or the players develop and physically mature within their college team's system.
 
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Symphony Steve said:
I honestly don't see how you can criticize someone for not drinking the Kool-Aid.

In no way being critical of Cruz, but it looks like we're closing on the best people who are willing to sign with us. For the most part, they're not highly-regarded recruits, and other schools at our level aren't beating down the doors for them.

I've been through enough 'I trust the coaches' threads over the years here. The successful coaches ultimately warranted them, the unsuccessful coaches didn't.

I trust that the coaches are doing the best they can. Obviously. But we're not dealing from a position of strength with prospective recruits. Might as well accept the likelihood that we're gonna need some lightly-recruited kids to outperform their offers in order for Coach B to be successful. And it's not like he has all the time in the world to do that.

Trying to inject a dose of reality is not the same as being negative.
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Recruiting was in an extended Dead Period from February 2020 until June 1, 2021, which meant no coaches out recruiting, no on campus visits for prospects and for SU no on campus camps. Also many of these prospects had no Fall season and maybe, in some states, a short Spring season. Throw in new position coaches who haven't been able to go out and recruit for a year for Syracuse so have no relationships already established with prospects for SU.

I think I'll withhold judgement until these kids, hopefully, all have a Fall season and recruiting normalizes.
 
CuseLegacy said:
Recruiting was in an extended Dead Period from February 2020 until June 1, 2021, which meant no coaches out recruiting, no on campus visits for prospects and for SU no on campus camps. Also many of these prospects had no Fall season and maybe, in some states, a short Spring season. Throw in new position coaches who haven't been able to go out and recruit for a year for Syracuse so have no relationships already established with prospects for SU.

I think I'll withhold judgement until these kids, hopefully, all have a Fall season and recruiting normalizes.
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Yep, and then the board will be apoplectic worrying about these same recruits "flipping" to other schools.
 
RMH44 said:
Yep, and then the board will be apoplectic worrying about these same recruits "flipping" to other schools.
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I don't know if that will happen. I'm just in a wait and see mode.
 
If our new OL coach offered him, then he saw something that we didn’t. I think he knows a lot more than some on this board would give him credit for. Coach has a great track record with O linemen. I’ll place my bet on his judgment. Not board members. Just my $00.02.
 
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Chip said:
If I might complain about this recruit for a moment...

Having too many OL named Cruz will get confusing to me, as a fan.

Thanks for listening.
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No problem as long as we Cruz into a bowl game.
 
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