One positive from Albany game | Syracusefan.com

One positive from Albany game

BlueCurtain

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Last possession of the half, Albany calls timeout to set up their offense. Syracuse - in zone entire half - comes out of timeout in m2m.

A nice strategic change-up - even more shocking considering the source. Does JB show this wrinkle in games that matter is the bigger question. I think we're all skeptics until proven otherwise.

On a related note, JB commented in a presser from an earlier game - not sure if it was Manhattan or one of the exhibitions - that the team's m2m suffers if they don't get enough reps in games, more so than the zone. That's not exactly a shocking observation, but this at least confirms that he is aware of that cause-and-effect. So what does he do? After playing a lot of m2m vs Manhattan, he comes out and goes almost exclusively zone. The few possessions of m2m later in the 2nd half were lazy or lousy - take your pick.

Like every other year, just have to keep expectations in check given JB's stubbornness - there's still an ember of hope/delusion flickering that he will recognize how much more effective both defenses can be if he's willing to deploy both proactively.
 

AZOrange

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Last possession of the half, Albany calls timeout to set up their offense. Syracuse - in zone entire half - comes out of timeout in m2m.

A nice strategic change-up - even more shocking considering the source. Does JB show this wrinkle in games that matter is the bigger question. I think we're all skeptics until proven otherwise.

On a related note, JB commented in a presser from an earlier game - not sure if it was Manhattan or one of the exhibitions - that the team's m2m suffers if they don't get enough reps in games, more so than the zone. That's not exactly a shocking observation, but this at least confirms that he is aware of that cause-and-effect. So what does he do? After playing a lot of m2m vs Manhattan, he comes out and goes almost exclusively zone. The few possessions of m2m later in the 2nd half were lazy or lousy - take your pick.

Like every other year, just have to keep expectations in check given JB's stubbornness - there's still an ember of hope/delusion flickering that he will recognize how much more effective both defenses can be if he's willing to deploy both proactively.
Only one positive from the game? Considering the source, I guess one noticed positive is better than nothing.
 

armory

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JB did this vs. Manhattan too ... we were in M2M and Manhattan coach called a timeout. After the TO we came out in the zone.
 

jordoo

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I think its hard to do both and be excellent or very good in both. Probably a one or the other type of thing. I loved the move strategically that you pointed out. I like starting the game in an aggressive m2m when the opposition prepared for 2-3. I see plenty of mistakes in both defenses right now. I think we will see mostly 2-3 and more full court press than m2m as we get into the heart of the schedule but we will see.

Its amazing how stubborn JB is considering that he has won so many games at such a high winning percentage . . . . . . . and yet early in his career we played mostly m2m and now later in his career we play mostly 2-3 zone. Hmmmm strange that he has evolved over time just like the game and is still winning at about the same clip.
 

AZOrange

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Its amazing how stubborn JB is considering that he has won so many games at such a high winning percentage . . . . . . . and yet early in his career we played mostly m2m and now later in his career we play mostly 2-3 zone. Hmmmm strange that he has evolved over time just like the game and is still winning at about the same clip.

I would guess less than 50% of the posters here will pick up on your sarcasm... ;)
 

orangefan13

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CJ fouled with 55 seconds left in the half. He had fouls to give made Swaro earn his at the free throw line and gave us a two for one (even though KJO fumbled the ball on the drive)
 

BlueCurtain

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early in his career we played mostly m2m and now later in his career we play mostly 2-3 zone. Hmmmm strange that he has evolved over time just like the game and is still winning at about the same clip.

Sarcasm aside - his "evolution" has nothing to do with adapting to the game and everything to do with parading his "system". After his national image flipped in 1996, he runs the same exact system even though the personnel has not always been ideally suited to that system.
 

jordoo

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Sarcasm aside - his "evolution" has nothing to do with adapting to the game and everything to do with parading his "system". After his national image flipped in 1996, he runs the same exact system even though the personnel has not always been ideally suited to that system.

Or you could consider that this change also coincides with the evolution of the 3pt shot and the fact that the midrange game has fallen to the wayside for most college players. Thus making defending the 3pt line and the rim more important than defending the space in between. I'm pretty sure that we rank right up there in 3pt percentage defense year in and year out using primarily the 2-3 zone. Just saying that you like everyone else see what you want to see to support your agenda. I'm no different, as I am always more optimistic every season than I should be about the team and specific players.
 

Toga

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JB used to do that routinely years ago and it almost always worked. Don't know why he got away from it. Good strategy.
 

BlueCurtain

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Thus making defending the 3pt line and the rim more important than defending the space in between. I'm pretty sure that we rank right up there in 3pt percentage defense year in and year out using primarily the 2-3 zone. Just saying that you like everyone else see what you want to see.
Too many people get caught up in FG% - as if that's the primary barometer for defensive production. Defense is all about closing out a possession and controlling tempo. Teams in the top 25 might miss a lot of shots against us, but they will usually grab more than their share of offensive rebounds, thus extending the possession. And when teams want to slow the pace and use the entire shot clock, the zone concedes. How many times have we all complained that the team needs a spark and they are just standing in the zone waiting for the other team to run their offensive sets? If the opposing guard wants a breather, all he has to do is step outsize the 3pt arc and wait till his offense gets settled. JS even mentioned this after the Manhattan game - "the other team is more relaxed when they see zone".
 

jordoo

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Too many people get caught up in FG% - as if that's the primary barometer for defensive production. Defense is all about closing out a possession and controlling tempo. Teams in the top 25 might miss a lot of shots against us, but they will usually grab more than their share of offensive rebounds, thus extending the possession. And when teams want to use the entire shot clock, the zone lets them do so. If the opposing ball handler wants a breather, all he has to do is step outsize the zone and wait till his offense gets settled. JS even mentioned this after the Manhattan game - "the other team is more relaxed when they see zone".

No doubt about it if we sit back in the zone but if we have an active trapping zone teams get rattled and look bad or have you forgotten about our 09 season. I think that it is easier for the other team over all to slow the tempo of the game if we play exclusively 2-3 zone. Thats a fact and a down side to the zone, but do not pretend that the 2-3 doesn't have upside as well. My problem with your posting is that its all one big agenda against the 2-3 and thats always the angle you post from. Take a look at the name of this thread for instance, lol.
 

jordoo

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Just against it being used exclusively as an advertisement for JB.

You really believe that JB has been using the 2-3 to advertise his brand? He wants to win every game and is far from perfect but he's a very successful coach. His goal is wining game in and game out.
 

orangefan13

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After Coach K last night your busting on JB. Seriously.

He gets all the talent in the world and the guy is treated like the king of basketball. Dickie V said he is a better coach then Phil Jackson.

If anything JB gave us Syracuse basketball the 2-3 something different to be known by.
 

AZOrange

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You really believe that JB has been using the 2-3 to advertise his brand? He wants to win every game and is far from perfect but he's a very successful coach. His goal is wining game in and game out.
What is the advertisement for exactly?
 

AZOrange

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After Coach K last night your busting on JB. Seriously.

He gets all the talent in the world and the guy is treated like the king of basketball. Dickie V said he is a better coach then Phil Jackson.
He is right there with Phil Jackson (I dont know how you compare those 2 though). Coach K (as much as I hate Duke) is unreal.
 

longtimefan

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Too many people get caught up in FG% - as if that's the primary barometer for defensive production. Defense is all about closing out a possession and controlling tempo. Teams in the top 25 might miss a lot of shots against us, but they will usually grab more than their share of offensive rebounds, thus extending the possession. And when teams want to slow the pace and use the entire shot clock, the zone concedes. How many times have we all complained that the team needs a spark and they are just standing in the zone waiting for the other team to run their offensive sets? If the opposing guard wants a breather, all he has to do is step outsize the 3pt arc and wait till his offense gets settled. JS even mentioned this after the Manhattan game - "the other team is more relaxed when they see zone".
Maybe you should check KenPom's tempo adjusted defensive stats then. SU has been rated very highly in recent years.
 

NKR1978

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Sarcasm aside - his "evolution" has nothing to do with adapting to the game and everything to do with parading his "system". After his national image flipped in 1996, he runs the same exact system even though the personnel has not always been ideally suited to that system.

Except in 2009 when we primarily played man by the end of the year after the zone got torched a couple times for 100+ points.
 

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