Oshae Staying in the 2019 NBA Draft

[IthacaMatt]

watching their mixtapes, they're twins. all dunks and 3's. they both had the same success in Canada too.

I think Guerrier drives a lot better.
He works the baseline well. That's the big difference for me.
Brissett tends to drive into the middle, where all the help defense is.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He hasn’t played a minute for us. What was everyone saying about Carey last summer and after the first handful of games?

Carey is my pick to start at PG next year. I think he pairs best with Goodine to start the game aggressively, and not in a deficit. I also think it will avoid Buddy getting early foul trouble, which we absolutely do not want next year.

I am firmly on record as (1) an early Buddy supporter, and (2) suggesting that Buddy will do best as the 1st guard off the bench next year, using Carey and Goodine's athleticism to start the game.

Then bring in Buddy at the 4 minute timeout. Less pressure on the young man; he will still play 25 minutes a game this year, and probably improve from 8 PPG in 14 minutes to 12-14 PPG in 25 minutes. He's just not ready yet for 32-36 minutes a game. He's not.

His junior and senior year, he will challenge for All ACC. His freshman year was better than Andy Rautins' sophomore year.

 

[jgeorge322]

Thanks, but not everyone can play. There are only 200 minutes to go around.

I love how authoritative you sound in this thread. Acting like quincy is guaranteed to dominate and inferring that a two year starter somehow won’t have minutes next year. Head coach certainly disagrees with the latter point, based on the article i posted in prior post.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I love how authoritative you sound in this thread. Acting like quincy is guaranteed to dominate and inferring that a two year starter somehow won’t have minutes next year. Head coach certainly disagrees with the latter point, based on the article i posted in prior post.

It's just my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.
That's what this place is for.

I feel strongly about my opinion.
I really, really want to see SU win one more title before JB retires.
He really deserves it. He is an all-time great.

But as the clock ticks down, we have to be better than we have been.
Even though we have made a couple great runs that were unexpected in the NCAA's we were not really contenders to win it like we were in 1996 or, obviously, in 2003 (or 2010 or 2012). Those teams we knew could actually win it all.

I want one more team like that before he has to hang them up.

I think some roster mistakes, recruiting mistakes, lapses in effort due to age, less dynamic assistants, lots of factors, play into it. But make no mistake; add an Isaiah Stewart to the roster we have right now, and we are a whole different animal. We are just a couple players away from being a title contender. We have all the supporting pieces. We just need to get a couple alpha dogs.

Then we could make another real run or two, not a gimmicky run when the defense carries us, but we don't have enough offense to really have a shot at winning it all.

We have tons of offense now; we need that talented big guy or two inside.

 

[Oakland]

I think he is puzzled on why so many think he is gone, and 'fake crying' about so many who don't care if he is gone.

I for one want Oshae back. We have no front court players who are above average rebounders. It is going to be our biggest weakness. Losing our best rebounder would not be good.

Does the puzzled reference mean he doesn't know what to do? Or that he is confused by the lack of love from the SU fan base? What does everyone think?

 

[BillSU]

It's just my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.
That's what this place is for.

I feel strongly about my opinion.
I really, really want to see SU win one more title before JB retires.
He really deserves it. He is an all-time great.

But as the clock ticks down, we have to be better than we have been.
Even though we have made a couple great runs that were unexpected in the NCAA's we were not really contenders to win it like we were in 1996 or, obviously, in 2003 (or 2010 or 2012). Those teams we knew could actually win it all.

I want one more team like that before he has to hang them up.

I think some roster mistakes, recruiting mistakes, lapses in effort due to age, less dynamic assistants, lots of factors, play into it. But make no mistake; add an Isaiah Stewart to the roster we have right now, and we are a whole different animal. We are just a couple players away from being a title contender. We have all the supporting pieces. We just need to get a couple alpha dogs.

Then we could make another real run or two, not a gimmicky run when the defense carries us, but we don't have enough offense to really have a shot at winning it all.

We have tons of offense now; we need that talented big guy or two inside.

Ithaca: Thought I'd try and contribute to this discussion since we are talking about guard play.

I am comparing apples to oranges here but I have had the ability to watch SUBB from 1962-63 till present being the spotter for the official scorer in 1962, 3,and 4 when Manley was brand new.

I have grown accustomed to teams, JB with whom I am a friend, that ran the fast break it seemed in all the years I have been watching except recently and I have gotten used to the excitement and ability of the teams that ran it, watching them run, pass and score with abandon and have been hoping for its return and a point who could lead it.

Specifically, I was shown what a fast break could do by Sherman Douglas from 1985 – 89. I have been waiting for a point guard who could continue what Douglas began and was hoping that Jalen Carey would break out of the freshman learning / development year and became the floor leader Douglas was.

I realize I am choosing the best PG in SU history. Depending on how old you are you may have seen him play and been amazed at what he was able to accomplish with his passing, distribution skills, scoring, and alley oops to Stevie Thompson, Coleman, and Seikaly.

I also want Buddy to be able to handle more minutes and think he has a great future as a player at SU, perhaps the best 3 point shooter ever. I agree with you that he wouldn't be able to handle that many minutes as a sophomore.

Here's the difference IMHO. We are looking at two very different players. One a 6' 0” 165 blur the other an adequate, as far as speed goes player, but a much better three point shooter. Also we had a great team in the four years Sherm was here. Douglas had to become a starter as a sophomore because Pearl left for the NBA. Not a lot was expected but he became a star. Some of his line as a sophomore was: Games 38, 32 MPG, 289 ASST, 17.3 PPG. He was the leading scorer at SU for some time. The experience of his team mates helped him become the leader he was and the team records during his tenure what they were. 85-86 26 – 6, 86-87 31-7 Nat'l Ch runner up, 87-88 26-9, 89 -90 30-8.

Buddy hopefully will be the recipient of some incoming team members who will be a help in getting him the ball. It is of interest to me to see how GIII's shooting translates to the ACC as well as other incoming players. I agree we need an alpha - preferably a BIG to add to the mix to develop into a team to get another title before Jim leaves. It would be great if that could happen while Buddy was a junior or senior. As you mentioned Jim deserves it. Hope the team can get it for him.

 

[billsin01]

I repeat - he is already bigger and stronger as a HS senior than Brissett was as a college sophomore.

Based on what? I'm not saying you're wrong but I haven't seen him listed at anything other than 6-7, 190. Brissett listed at 6-8, 210. And it's not like Brissett isn't cut up. So, if you're right, great. But I think people have trouble believing it particularly when it's not listed anywhere (that I can see).

 

[billsin01]

Thanks, but not everyone can play. There are only 200 minutes to go around.

If Guerrier is already better than Oshae, at least in some respects, then it gives us three forwards with Hughes and Brissett. Also, Marek, who is foul prone and weights 125 pounds, will be playing the middle backed up by Sidibe who is battling a serious situation with his knees and a kid who is 6'11", 190, not highly recruited and more of a finesse guy apparently.

So to me, you've got three proven entities, a really good frosh (if Guerrier is as good as you think) and then a wild card in Braswell (who knows?). Maybe that's not best-case scenario (JBA or Edwards could surprise, Sidibe could theoretically be truly healthy), but it's the most likely.

Bottom line: the 120 minutes should be plenty to get those four and maybe a 5th plenty of time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ithaca: Thought I'd try and contribute to this discussion since we are talking about guard play.

I am comparing apples to oranges here but I have had the ability to watch SUBB from 1962-63 till present being spotter for the official scorer in 1962, 3,and 4 when Manley was brand new.

I have grown accustomed to teams, JB with whom I am a friend, that ran the fast break it seemed in all the years I have been watching except recently and have gotten used to the excitement and ability of the teams that ran it watching them run, pass and score with abandon and have been hoping for its return and a point who could lead it.

Specifically, I was shown what a fast break could do by Sherman Douglas from 1985 – 89. I have been waiting for a point guard who could continue what Douglas began and was hoping that Jalen Carey would break out of the freshman learning / development year and became the floor leader Douglas was.

I realize I am choosing the best PG in SU history. Depending on how old you are you may have seen him play and been amazed at what he was able to accomplish with his passing distribution skills, scoring, and alley oops to Stevie Thompson, Coleman, and Seikaly.

I also want Buddy to be able to handle more minutes and think he has a great future as a player at SU, perhaps the best 3 point shooter ever. I agree with you that he wouldn't be able to handle that many minutes as a sophomore.

Here's the difference IMHO. We are looking at two very different players. One a 6' 0” 165 blur the other an adequate, as far as speed goes player, but a much better three point shooter. Also we had a great team in the four years Sherm was there. Douglas had to become a starter as a sophomore because Pearl left for the NBA. Not a lot was expected but he became a star. Some of his line was: Games 38, 32 MPG, 289 ASST, 17.3 PPG. He was the leading scorer at SU for some time. The experience of his team mates helped him become the leader he was and the team records during his tenure what they were. 85-86 26 – 6, 86-87 31-7 Nat'l Ch runner up, 87-88 26-9, 89 -90 30-8.

Buddy hopefully will be the recipient of some incoming team members who will be a help in getting him the ball. It is of interest to me to see how GIII's shooting translates to the ACC as well as other incoming players. I agree we need an alpha - preferably a BIG to add to the mix to develop into a team to get another title before Jim leaves. It would be great if that could happen while Buddy was a junior or senior. As you mentioned Jim deserves it. Hope the team can get it for him.

Terrific post, Bill. I share some of your historical perspective, although I only go back to the Roy's Runts teams, starting the year after Bill Smith graduated. I agree that we have been a running team forever, until the last few years, and it's a big part of our identity as a program that I miss, and I think a lot of other fans miss, too. It's easy buckets, and it creates a "showtime" atmosphere.

The zone is built to run; just look back at those teams with Scoop and Triche and Dion Waiters. We ran a tremendous break. Like you, I'm hoping that Carey can be that guy to get us running again. I think we never quite saw the best out of Tyus Battle because we couldn't get him into the open court enough. The footage I've seen of Goodine (when he's not dunking) shows a pretty decent handle.

Hoping for a new start next year. Let's hope Jim and Gerry can close on that stud big man that we need as a final piece of this puzzle.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Based on what? I'm not saying you're wrong but I haven't seen him listed at anything other than 6-7, 190. Brissett listed at 6-8, 210. And it's not like Brissett isn't cut up. So, if you're right, great. But I think people have trouble believing it particularly when it's not listed anywhere (that I can see).

Guerrier is 6-7, 210-220, not 190. They said it in the Canadian all star game. He's more physically developed than any forward currently on the roster. Go back to his videos and just look at his arms and chest and compare his physique to Brissett. Then look at the way he attacks the basket. He doesn't look to avoid contact; he looks to finish through contact. That's what they try to teach players - to get into the chest of the defender. Brissett, for all his athleticism, doesn't really do that. He corkscrews around guys, and winds up taking harder shots than necessary at the rim. And he wasn't getting the calls last year that he got as a freshman.

 

[kcsu]

We are a much better team with OB.

 

[Townie72]

It's just my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.
That's what this place is for.

I feel strongly about my opinion.
I really, really want to see SU win one more title before JB retires.
He really deserves it. He is an all-time great.

But as the clock ticks down, we have to be better than we have been.
Even though we have made a couple great runs that were unexpected in the NCAA's we were not really contenders to win it like we were in 1996 or, obviously, in 2003 (or 2010 or 2012). Those teams we knew could actually win it all.

I want one more team like that before he has to hang them up.

I think some roster mistakes, recruiting mistakes, lapses in effort due to age, less dynamic assistants, lots of factors, play into it. But make no mistake; add an Isaiah Stewart to the roster we have right now, and we are a whole different animal. We are just a couple players away from being a title contender. We have all the supporting pieces. We just need to get a couple alpha dogs.

Then we could make another real run or two, not a gimmicky run when the defense carries us, but we don't have enough offense to really have a shot at winning it all.

We have tons of offense now; we need that talented big guy or two inside.

Strong opinions are fine, except when they are based on such thin evidence. Projecting Quincy’s performance based oh high school game videos is pure folly.

 

[Ggaenzle]

Who wants to decipher this one?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Strong opinions are fine, except when they are based on such thin evidence. Projecting Quincy’s performance based oh high school game videos is pure folly.

This is what people who watch high school prospects do - make projections based off of the many other players they have seen over the years at similar stages in their development. I used to go to ABCD Camp run by Sonny Vaccaro for 7 years when I lived in NJ. I don't follow football recruiting that closely just because there are so many kids on the board each year that it's damn near impossible if it's not your actual job. With hoops, there are fewer kids to watch, and it's easier to see what a point guard can do as opposed to an offensive lineman. It's right there to see.

 

[OrangeDW]

Spring 2002: There’s NO WAY that Gerry McNamara and Billy Edelin will both come right in and play better than the veteran Deshaun Williams ever did. We need Deshaun back!

 

[rrlbees]

Spring 2002: There’s NO WAY that Gerry McNamara and Billy Edelin will both come right in and play better than the veteran Deshaun Williams ever did. We need Deshaun back!

Please don’t compare Brissett to Williams.

And I don’t remember people saying that.

 

[OrangeDW]

Please don’t compare Brissett to Williams.

And I don’t remember people saying that.

By all accounts, Brissett is a much more reliable guy.

Deshaun made all Big East though.

Those suggesting there is no way a freshman could come in and outplay a junior must have missed the last 20 years of college hoops.

Then again, there are also those that always lose interest in the current players for the next incoming guys.

We’ll see what happens. I’m not sweating anything that happens until Oct/Nov anyways.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It's just my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.
That's what this place is for.

I feel strongly about my opinion.
I really, really want to see SU win one more title before JB retires.
He really deserves it. He is an all-time great.

But as the clock ticks down, we have to be better than we have been.
Even though we have made a couple great runs that were unexpected in the NCAA's we were not really contenders to win it like we were in 1996 or, obviously, in 2003 (or 2010 or 2012). Those teams we knew could actually win it all.

I want one more team like that before he has to hang them up.

I think some roster mistakes, recruiting mistakes, lapses in effort due to age, less dynamic assistants, lots of factors, play into it. But make no mistake; add an Isaiah Stewart to the roster we have right now, and we are a whole different animal. We are just a couple players away from being a title contender. We have all the supporting pieces. We just need to get a couple alpha dogs.

Then we could make another real run or two, not a gimmicky run when the defense carries us, but we don't have enough offense to really have a shot at winning it all.

We have tons of offense now; we need that talented big guy or two inside.

I think most would put 1996 in the category of unexpected as well. I don't think many gave us a chance of beating Kansas. I know I was thrilled as a pig in spit that we made the FF and anything that happened beyond that was house money - no different than 2016. Who can forget the media clamoring for the final four to be re-seeded so Kentucky/UMass would face off in the title game? SU and Miss St were an afterthought.

I like your optimism but I don't see us closing on any top bigs without a shakeup in the staff. But I'll go over to the recruiting board again just to see what's cooking. Maybe Edwards puts on another 10 pounds before the fall and arrives at 225-230.

 

[AZOrange]

watching their mixtapes, they're twins. all dunks and 3's. they both had the same success in Canada too.

Very similar. I think qG is ultimately a better scorer and ob a little bouncier I’d that makes sense. QG is a more athletic version of CJ or KJ imo

 

[jgeorge322]

Very similar. I think qG is ultimately a better scorer and ob a little bouncier I’d that makes sense. QG is a more athletic version of CJ or KJ imo

Quincy actually has a weak vertical.

 

[AZOrange]

Quincy actually has a weak vertical.

I have no idea what “weak vertical” means. But I noted OB is the bouncier player so not sure your point

 

[OrangeDW]

Very similar. I think qG is ultimately a better scorer and ob a little bouncier I’d that makes sense. QG is a more athletic version of CJ or KJ imo

More athletic than CJ? As in quicker?

CJ wasn’t overly quick laterally, but that guy could run the floor and JUMP.

 

[jgeorge322]

I have no idea what “weak vertical” means. But I noted OB is the bouncier player so not sure your point

I was extrapolating on your point about oshae being bouncier, not arguing. Quincy doesnt have a high vertical is all i was saying. Hes a big kid though and doesnt need to jump out of the building.

Im not sure if quincy is more athletic then kj but i always felt kj had a below average handle. I think quincys is more skilled in that department.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Quincy reminds me of Pj Hairston from unc

 

[billsin01]

Guerrier is 6-7, 210-220, not 190. They said it in the Canadian all star game. He's more physically developed than any forward currently on the roster. Go back to his videos and just look at his arms and chest and compare his physique to Brissett. Then look at the way he attacks the basket. He doesn't look to avoid contact; he looks to finish through contact. That's what they try to teach players - to get into the chest of the defender. Brissett, for all his athleticism, doesn't really do that. He corkscrews around guys, and winds up taking harder shots than necessary at the rim. And he wasn't getting the calls last year that he got as a freshman.

This is what people who watch high school prospects do - make projections based off of the many other players they have seen over the years at similar stages in their development. I used to go to ABCD Camp run by Sonny Vaccaro for 7 years when I lived in NJ. I don't follow football recruiting that closely just because there are so many kids on the board each year that it's damn near impossible if it's not your actual job. With hoops, there are fewer kids to watch, and it's easier to see what a point guard can do as opposed to an offensive lineman. It's right there to see.

Interesting note on Guerrier's size. Didn't realize that was the case. I would still argue that a really good and physical Guerrier would be nice to pair with Brissett at least for stretches with Hughes rotating in as opposed to needing the latter and Guerrier to handle almost all the minutes unless Braswell comes along and can be a really solid third option.

Regardless, it'll be interesting to watch. The one thing I would say is that I would value your opinion (or my own for that matter) if you were watching a few days of practice and games at a camp like the ABCD camp or during the AAU summer sessions like the Peach Jam or whatever. I feel like judging much from carefully curated highlight clips is tough. That's my only hesitation with Guerrier or Girard or even Goodine. Just hard to know exactly what you're getting from those films, IMO.