OT -melo

[Orangezoo]

Read an article again discussing melo needing to pass more with complaints from amare. It cracks me up as he played decoy and deferred a lot earlier this year and teammates put up brick after brick. Now he is averaging a double double and amare is complaining he wont pass enough.
Melo should be doing 2 things well and that is scoring and rebounding. Add improve his d to that too. But he isnt lebron. So those stating he should be lebron well its hard to do when you figure no one else can be him.

The knicks are just poorly built. They are weak at pg, weak at center and heavy on wings and scoring forwards. That is not a recipe for success. Melo plays well with a good facilitator and pg. Felton was decent last year and it showed. Chauncey was the best facilitator he played with and those two took denver a long ways because that relationship worked. Knicks need to scrap the hope of building around melo and let him go in fa. I am thankful for what he brought to cuse but he needs to just accept being a secondary option to a team somewhere for less than max.

 

[longislandcuse]

Fact is none of the Knicks pgs would play meaningful minutes for any other playoff team. Felton, Prigs and Udrih are awful, absolutely awful. Knicks have one 2g who can shoot but he never plays. Step back JR and overrated Shump constantly suck game in/game out.

Can't win with the backcourt were putting out there.

 

[OrangeDW]

It sucks Amare got hurt and all, but as long as he's cashing those huge checks he should really just shut up and try hard and avoid starting any controversy as he's basically stealing money at this point, while handicapping the entire franchise.

 

[TheCusian]

It sucks Amare got hurt and all, but as long as he's cashing those huge checks he should really just shut up and try hard and avoid starting any controversy as he's basically stealing money at this point, while handicapping the entire franchise.

He should have zero to say since he busted his hand in that extinguisher box in Miami. Nothing.

 

[Melancer46]

This is what I've tried to tell my roommate that's a big Knicks fan. As constructed, this Knicks team isn't going anywhere. And they don't have the ability to make moves to give Melo a great supporting cast until he's 31 or 32 years old. I just don't see the point.

They might as well strip it down, try to acquire some draft picks for once, and actually rebuild.

 

[HakAttack]

This is what I've tried to tell my roommate that's a big Knicks fan. As constructed, this Knicks team isn't going anywhere. And they don't have the ability to make moves to give Melo a great supporting cast until he's 31 or 32 years old. I just don't see the point.

They might as well strip it down, try to acquire some draft picks for once, and actually rebuild.

Three things that will NEVER happen as long as James Dolan owns the Knicks...I for one wish he'd sell the team to someone who actually cares about making the Knicks a winner on the court.

 

[longislandcuse]

Melo does bring some of the hate on himself though. Tonight for example, down 2, game on the line, 14 seconds left, he waves everyone off, goes iso and doesn't even get the ball near the rim. Tough to defend that when the team is losing every night and you're the star of the team.

 

[doc05]

And he had ZERO (0) assists, no steals, and shot 8-22 in a game the Nuggets were trying to give away. And he was defended by Randy Foye (who he has at least 4 inches on) on that last shot - he has to take it to the rim, or at least get fouled.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

you could put jordan or bird, or magic, (not all at the same time) on this Knicks team and they would still S U C K.

the true test for Melo will be if he can ever get on a decent team before he degenerates into old age.

he needs to get out of there .

 

[TheCusian]

Melo does bring some of the hate on himself though. Tonight for example, down 2, game on the line, 14 seconds left, he waves everyone off, goes iso and doesn't even get the ball near the rim. Tough to defend that when the team is losing every night and you're the star of the team.

That's what he's good at. People kill him for ISO ball - but it's one of the things that make Melo, Melo. It's like getting mad at Steve Kerr for taking and missing a 3 at the end of the game.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

And he had ZERO (0) assists, no steals, and shot 8-22 in a game the Nuggets were trying to give away. And he was defended by Randy Foye (who he has at least 4 inches on) on that last shot - he has to take it to the rim, or at least get fouled.

As great a scorer as Carmelo is, everyone, including my mother, who's been dead for 20 years, knew Carmelo was not gonna give up the ball on that last ISO. It's the kind of basketball I can go down to the park to see, one guy gets the ball, it doesn't move, he makes some, misses a lot, ugly, not winning or high-end basketball.

By contrast, the Heat are a joy to watch, unselfish, guys giving up good shots for better ones. And it all starts with their alpha dog, LeBron, who came into the league with not only the uncanny ability, but the desire to pass the ball. Great passer. And it's contagious. He wants to win first, not lead the league in scoring. Jumpin' Jimmy Naismith is somewhere smilin' at the level of team play the Heat have taken his creation to.

I love what Carmelo helped 'Cuse do ought-three, love how he's given back to the basketball program, but he's more a beta than alpha dog. Would love to see LeBron team up with him for their career stretch run, but I doubt LeBron would consider going to New York (how great would that be to see him play 41 games in the Garden each year?) and subject himself to the mess than one of the worst owners in the NBA, nimrod James Dolan, has helped create.

 

[SmilinBob]

It sucks Amare got hurt and all, but as long as he's cashing those huge checks he should really just shut up and try hard and avoid starting any controversy as he's basically stealing money at this point, while handicapping the entire franchise.

It's too bad they can't trade Amare because of his contract. The only team that could take that hit salary wise is Kentucky, unfortunately they aren't in the NBA.

 

[alphaorange]

Blame Melo all you want (and he deserves some, no doubt), but the problem starts at the top with Dolan's interference, then goes to Woodson. Woodson coaches an ISO offense and has since his time at Atlanta. ISO ball is obsolete as a staple in the NBA, but Woodson is a dinosaur. He also coaches a defense that switches everything. Then he wonders why Bargs can't defend a PG on the perimeter or why a PG can't defend a big in the paint. The guy coaches what Melo does best instead what works best for the team. They won a lot of games last year early when the ball was moving and guys were hitting threes. The team has no consistent perimeter shooters, now, so they reverted to ISO, which is pretty easy to make inefficient.

 

[Ghost]

Eh, the problem is the cast of characters surrounding him. The guards are putrid, and when you got a headcase that can't do anything offensively as your second option, well, all you got is a head case (JR Smith).

The guards are incredibly weak, and the more they lose the more Melo takes on the scoring (more ISO! Yay) which makes every other aspect of his game weaker. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do - tough spot to be in. Who is he going to pass to? You can only let the team get so far behind every night before you gotta get greedy - and as we're seeing Melo isn't enough to win these games by himself.

I like Chandler a lot, but otherwise, wow, they have nothing. Shumpert, Felton, Smith - all garbage at this point. Hopefully they can turn their seasons around - but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[longislandcuse]

I put 80% of the blame on Melo's joke of a supporting cast and coach. Outside of Chandler and "maybe" Bargs, there is not one player on this team who would serious playing time on a contender. Sometimes I think Melo should pull a Kobe, when Kobe was on that awful Laker team and getting crushed for ball hogging, he just passed one game for the entire game to make a point. Melo should do that as well as we would lose by 40 and watch these "supposed to be NBA players" brick shot after shot. I swear, I've NEVER seen an NBA team miss so many wide open shots, it's honestly absurd.

We might have the worst guards in the history of the NBA right now. JR and Shump at least "might" be able to snap out of it. I have no hope for our pathetic group of point guards. Felton, Prigs and Udrih are awful and along with Amare and his contract are the real reasons this team is where they are right now.

However, Melo is not blameless and some of his faults are not trusting his teammates, which as I highlighted above isn't without reason. Game ending plays like last night are plays he, as a star, needs to make once in a while. So far this season, he hasn't. If you're going to go one on one, wave everyone off and call your own play, you better make it a good one.

It's gotta be tough being the only player capable of scoring, rebounding and having to log major minutes all the while getting no calls from the refs. I heard that he got hit on the hand while shooting that attempted game winner last night? Any truth to this? Wouldn't suprise me and the refs officiate him like he slept with all their wives and kicked their collective dog while doing so.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's too bad they can't trade Amare because of his contract. The only team that could take that hit salary wise is Kentucky, unfortunately they aren't in the NBA.

I bet the Jazz could swing something. Not sure what they could send in return that would actually matter though.

 

[newmexicuse]

I put 80% of the blame on Melo's joke of a supporting cast and coach. Outside of Chandler and "maybe" Bargs, there is not one player on this team who would serious playing time on a contender. Sometimes I think Melo should pull a Kobe, when Kobe was on that awful Laker team and getting crushed for ball hogging, he just passed one game for the entire game to make a point. Melo should do that as well as we would lose by 40 and watch these "supposed to be NBA players" brick shot after shot. I swear, I've NEVER seen an NBA team miss so many wide open shots, it's honestly absurd.

We might have the worst guards in the history of the NBA right now. JR and Shump at least "might" be able to snap out of it. I have no hope for our pathetic group of point guards. Felton, Prigs and Udrih are awful and along with Amare and his contract are the real reasons this team is where they are right now.

However, Melo is not blameless and some of his faults are not trusting his teammates, which as I highlighted above isn't without reason. Game ending plays like last night are plays he, as a star, needs to make once in a while. So far this season, he hasn't. If you're going to go one on one, wave everyone off and call your own play, you better make it a good one.

It's gotta be tough being the only player capable of scoring, rebounding and having to log major minutes all the while getting no calls from the refs. I heard that he got hit on the hand while shooting that attempted game winner last night? Any truth to this? Wouldn't suprise me and the refs officiate him like he slept with all their wives and kicked their collective dog while doing so.

I agree with much of what you are saying season to date, but let's really delve further.

1. Melo - I read somewhere that he has only made 1 of his last 15 game winning or game tying shot attempts in the last 30 seconds. That is beyond unacceptable for a max franchise superstar. I also think his game has declined just a little bit; hopefully, not the start of a downwards spiral. Melo should have been willing to give the ball up to Bargs, if Bargs was able to get himself an open look from inside of 15 feet in that situation.

2. Chandler injury has hurt immeasurably. He is the defensive glue, and though he is not the Knicks best player he may well be their MVP. Plus he gives em just enough O off of pick n rolls to keep the D's honest.

3. Felton & Smith - both coming back from injuries. JR is starting to look just a little bit better game by game, but he has a long ways to go. Felton is an average PG when healthy, but unfortunately that is not the case. Prigs and Udrih should be adequate as backups. Seems to me that Udrih did just fine in that role with the Spurs & he is not as good as Prigs.

4. New players - Bargs is a bright spot, and is playing as well as can be expected, but he is playing out of position. Hardaway is doing as well as can be expected for a late first round rookie. World Peace started the season well, but has been atrocious of late - is he totally washed up ?

5. Bigs - Amare is total toast. Martin really should only be playing 10 to 15 MPG. he gives it his all, but the tank is almost empty.

6. Shumpert - now this is the real mystery to me. Why is he on the outs ? He is suffering from a lack of confidence. This is the guy who should be given the chance to be the 3rd option after Melo & Bargs. It is time to let him try and do more and see if he can get to the next level. He will never be a superstar IMHO, but he can be second tier star in the right situation. He supposedly had off-season surgery, so maybe he isn't 100% as well.

7. End of bench - not much there, but I do not understand why Aldrich hasn't gotten a look as a space eating defensive center for 5 to 10 MPG. Also, I really liked Tyler in the pre-season, and I hope he gets a serious rotational look when he gets healthly enough to be added to the roster.

So my summation is basically that this team he enough pieces when whole and healthy to be a playoff team. They simply have to find a way to win a few and hold the fort until Chandler comes back & Felton & Smith can get back to 100%. problem is that they have dug a deep crater, & even if they turn it around it is hard to see them getting above a 7 seed & they would have almost no chance against Miami or Indy from that spot.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

As great a scorer as Carmelo is, everyone, including my mother, who's been dead for 20 years, knew Carmelo was not gonna give up the ball on that last ISO. It's the kind of basketball I can go down to the park to see, one guy gets the ball, it doesn't move, he makes some, misses a lot, ugly, not winning or high-end basketball.

By contrast, the Heat are a joy to watch, unselfish, guys giving up good shots for better ones. And it all starts with their alpha dog, LeBron, who came into the league with not only the uncanny ability, but the desire to pass the ball. Great passer. And it's contagious. He wants to win first, not lead the league in scoring. Jumpin' Jimmy Naismith is somewhere smilin' at the level of team play the Heat have taken his creation to.

I love what Carmelo helped 'Cuse do ought-three, love how he's given back to the basketball program, but he's more a beta than alpha dog. Would love to see LeBron team up with him for their career stretch run, but I doubt LeBron would consider going to New York (how great would that be to see him play 41 games in the Garden each year?) and subject himself to the mess than one of the worst owners in the NBA, nimrod James Dolan, has helped create.

Put Melo on the Heat and the assists go way up and his shots go down. He would have someone to pass to.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So my summation is basically that this team he enough pieces when whole and healthy to be a playoff team. They simply have to find a way to win a few and hold the fort until Chandler comes back & Felton & Smith can get back to 100%. problem is that they have dug a deep crater, & even if they turn it around it is hard to see them getting above a 7 seed & they would have almost no chance against Miami or Indy from that spot.

There are like, what, 3 teams in the East over .500 right now? I'm guessing the Knicks have a pretty good chance to get in the playoffs if for no other reason than the rest of the competition has problems too.

 

[longislandcuse]

Yea, luckily for NY they have a great chance of winning the Atlantic if they ever pull it together. Do that and you get a guaranteed top 4 seed.

We can only hope this team does the opposite of last year and starts off slow but finishes strong.

 

[longislandcuse]

I agree with much of what you are saying season to date, but let's really delve further.

1. Melo - I read somewhere that he has only made 1 of his last 15 game winning or game tying shot attempts in the last 30 seconds. That is beyond unacceptable for a max franchise superstar. I also think his game has declined just a little bit; hopefully, not the start of a downwards spiral. Melo should have been willing to give the ball up to Bargs, if Bargs was able to get himself an open look from inside of 15 feet in that situation.

2. Chandler injury has hurt immeasurably. He is the defensive glue, and though he is not the Knicks best player he may well be their MVP. Plus he gives em just enough O off of pick n rolls to keep the D's honest.

3. Felton & Smith - both coming back from injuries. JR is starting to look just a little bit better game by game, but he has a long ways to go. Felton is an average PG when healthy, but unfortunately that is not the case. Prigs and Udrih should be adequate as backups. Seems to me that Udrih did just fine in that role with the Spurs & he is not as good as Prigs.

4. New players - Bargs is a bright spot, and is playing as well as can be expected, but he is playing out of position. Hardaway is doing as well as can be expected for a late first round rookie. World Peace started the season well, but has been atrocious of late - is he totally washed up ?

5. Bigs - Amare is total toast. Martin really should only be playing 10 to 15 MPG. he gives it his all, but the tank is almost empty.

6. Shumpert - now this is the real mystery to me. Why is he on the outs ? He is suffering from a lack of confidence. This is the guy who should be given the chance to be the 3rd option after Melo & Bargs. It is time to let him try and do more and see if he can get to the next level. He will never be a superstar IMHO, but he can be second tier star in the right situation. He supposedly had off-season surgery, so maybe he isn't 100% as well.

7. End of bench - not much there, but I do not understand why Aldrich hasn't gotten a look as a space eating defensive center for 5 to 10 MPG. Also, I really liked Tyler in the pre-season, and I hope he gets a serious rotational look when he gets healthly enough to be added to the roster.

So my summation is basically that this team he enough pieces when whole and healthy to be a playoff team. They simply have to find a way to win a few and hold the fort until Chandler comes back & Felton & Smith can get back to 100%. problem is that they have dug a deep crater, & even if they turn it around it is hard to see them getting above a 7 seed & they would have almost no chance against Miami or Indy from that spot.

I agree but I honestly can't stand any of our point guards. I think Felton is at best a backup pg and I wouldn't even think about playing Prigs or Udrih if I ran a team. Prigs especially has declined dramatically. He's slow, small and is a zero threat on offense. That play when he cut last night and Melo found him wide open 5 feet from the basket and Prigs kicked it out with the shot clock running out...are you kidding me!?!?!?!

 

[SmilinBob]

I bet the Jazz could swing something. Not sure what they could send in return that would actually matter though.

Play the part of Malone...that would work if they could swing it.

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree with much of what you are saying season to date, but let's really delve further.

1. Melo - I read somewhere that he has only made 1 of his last 15 game winning or game tying shot attempts in the last 30 seconds. That is beyond unacceptable for a max franchise superstar. I also think his game has declined just a little bit; hopefully, not the start of a downwards spiral. Melo should have been willing to give the ball up to Bargs, if Bargs was able to get himself an open look from inside of 15 feet in that situation.

2. Chandler injury has hurt immeasurably. He is the defensive glue, and though he is not the Knicks best player he may well be their MVP. Plus he gives em just enough O off of pick n rolls to keep the D's honest.

3. Felton & Smith - both coming back from injuries. JR is starting to look just a little bit better game by game, but he has a long ways to go. Felton is an average PG when healthy, but unfortunately that is not the case. Prigs and Udrih should be adequate as backups. Seems to me that Udrih did just fine in that role with the Spurs & he is not as good as Prigs.

4. New players - Bargs is a bright spot, and is playing as well as can be expected, but he is playing out of position. Hardaway is doing as well as can be expected for a late first round rookie. World Peace started the season well, but has been atrocious of late - is he totally washed up ?

5. Bigs - Amare is total toast. Martin really should only be playing 10 to 15 MPG. he gives it his all, but the tank is almost empty.

6. Shumpert - now this is the real mystery to me. Why is he on the outs ? He is suffering from a lack of confidence. This is the guy who should be given the chance to be the 3rd option after Melo & Bargs. It is time to let him try and do more and see if he can get to the next level. He will never be a superstar IMHO, but he can be second tier star in the right situation. He supposedly had off-season surgery, so maybe he isn't 100% as well.

7. End of bench - not much there, but I do not understand why Aldrich hasn't gotten a look as a space eating defensive center for 5 to 10 MPG. Also, I really liked Tyler in the pre-season, and I hope he gets a serious rotational look when he gets healthly enough to be added to the roster.

So my summation is basically that this team he enough pieces when whole and healthy to be a playoff team. They simply have to find a way to win a few and hold the fort until Chandler comes back & Felton & Smith can get back to 100%. problem is that they have dug a deep crater, & even if they turn it around it is hard to see them getting above a 7 seed & they would have almost no chance against Miami or Indy from that spot.

I disagree that Melo has declined. Last year was arguably his best season...definitely in his top 2 or 3 seasons. He's not shooting as well this year, because the rest of the team is so bad. Same goes for the looks at the end of the game. When you have one option and everybody knows what's coming(and you don't get foul calls) it's easier to defend.

Melo is a better outside shooter these last few years than he ever was in Denver. He's also averaging a career high in rebounds right now, with Chandler down.

I agree with most of the rest, but I think Shumpert is a guy who got really overrated by Knicks fans somewhere along the line. He's never been a good shooter, going back to college. He was shooting under 40% in college! He's an athlete and a good defender. Nice piece as he's young with a reasonable salary. Could be a decent starter if paired with a really good, ball dominant PG, or could be a solid 7th-8th man. I don't see him having star potential at all though, he doesn't have the offensive game for that and never has.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

That's what he's good at. People kill him for ISO ball - but it's one of the things that make Melo, Melo. It's like getting mad at Steve Kerr for taking and missing a 3 at the end of the game.

It would be more like Kerr taking 30 threes throughout the entire game..and missing3/4 of them.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I firmly believe the shooters surrounding melo last year made him a much better player, moreso than the other way around (melo made the surrounding players better).

This year the supporting cast is not good at all, and it's apparent melo is trying to do it all by himself.