Paul Pierce's top 5

sufandu

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I can be ok with his choices, even if I disagree with his decision to leave Lebron out of the top 5. But his reasoning is completely inaccurate.

“It all came from ‘The Last Dance’ Episode 10, and it went back to a clip where Michael Jordan said, ‘I want to build up an organization.’ All of the great players built up their organizations. Kareem, Magic, Kobe and Shaq continued the tradition, Bird continued the tradition of the Boston Celtics, Jordan starting a tradition in Chicago. Tim Duncan – the Spurs weren’t even on the map before Tim Duncan got there, he built up that organization. I go back and ask myself, what has LeBron done to build up an organization from the ground up?”

Some of those guys stepped onto crap teams and turned them around. Others stepped into really good situations.

Magic was drafted onto a team that already had Kareem, who may have been the most dominant player in the league at that point.

Kobe was an almost identical situation with Shaq having just made the move there.

Bird was instrumental in an amazing turn around, but even he was almost immediately surrounded by a couple other future hall of famers.

What he says about Duncan is probably the most inaccurate. David Robinson turned that team around before Duncan arrived, taking a 21 win team and winning 56 his rookie year. They had four 50 and one 60 win seasons in his first 7 years. The year before Duncan was drafted they dropped to 20 wins because Robinson was injured and played only 6 games. Duncan stepped onto a team and got to immediately play beside a future HOF guy still in his prime.

I'm actually a guy that tends to be critical of Lebron because I see places where I thought he could/should have improved his game and essentially chose not to. Having said that, he did more for Cleveland with less help than almost everyone Pierce listed did for theirs.
 

creatorsgame

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Paul Pierce is a clown. Not even in response to this-- he has a history of ridiculous statements, far more absurd than this list.
I care more about the end-of-the-bar-drunk-guy’s top-5 than I care about Paul Pierce’s take.

Is this an actual thing?
 

sufandu

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1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Kareem
5. Magic
I like that list. I may leave Magic or Kareem off for Bird. Not having Wilt there is tough. He was just so dominant while having to constantly play against stacked Celtic teams. It's kinda the same as how Ewing, Barkley, or Malone are faulted for having to play in th e Jordan era. It's really hard to narrow it to 5 guys.
 

Todoubled23

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Paul Pierce is a clown. Not even in response to this-- he has a history of ridiculous statements, far more absurd than this list.
Check out SB nation's "beef" videos with the truth...hahahaha
 

Alsacs

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Pierce , Kobe, Duncan and KG are from the Jordan era when it comes be competitive.
They had friends but they weren’t banana boat type of players.

They would be like Jordan after he beat Bird in 1998.

This LeBron era of superstars aren’t like the 1990s and before.

LeBron is a top 5 player alltime IMO but Pierce doesn’t like the guy so he drops him down.
 

Alsacs

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Lebron is #2 behind MJ. You lose credibility by not having him in top 5. Hes arguably #1.
I can see Kareem ahead of LeBron right now but LeBron can pass him.
Kareem was NBA Finals MVP 14 years apart in 1971 and 1985.
That longevity puts him above LeBron for me for now.

LeBron can’t pass Jordan in my books.

The gap is too large. I posted this in the last dance thread but the video of how LeBron flops to a Tyson Chandler screen ends the discussion forever for me.

 

jgeorge322

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I can see Kareem ahead of LeBron right now but LeBron can pass him.
Kareem was NBA Finals MVP 14 years apart in 1971 and 1985.
That longevity puts him above LeBron for me for now.

LeBron can’t pass Jordan in my books.

The gap is too large. I posted this in the last dance thread but the video of how LeBron flops to a Tyson Chandler screen ends the discussion forever for me.

Ha im not a lebron guy but the stats tell the story.
 

NineOneSeven

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Lebron is #2 behind MJ. You lose credibility by not having him in top 5. Hes arguably #1.
People can have LeBron at 2, that’s fine. I’ve got him top 5, somewhere 3-5. MJ and Kareem are my top 2. Jordan is without question number 1. Here’s a fun stat- wilt averaged 30+ points 7 times. Jordan did it 8!
 

Alsacs

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Ha im not a lebron guy but the stats tell the story.
The stats are easily to explain.
This season 29 of 30 NBA teams average over 100 Possessions per game.
The last team Charlotte averages 99.8 possessions per game.



In 2003-2004 LeBron’s rookie year 0 teams averaged 100 possessions per game.
The highest possession per game team was Dallas that averaged 96.7 possessions per game.


The NBA has made the game more offense oriented.
They only allow 14 seconds on an offensive rebound, they have become 3 point and drive the ball oriented.
Thus LeBron gets more shots, free throws per game because of the extra possessions and you can’t hand check on defense or play physical defense.
The 80’s/ 90’s defenses beat up players that takes a beating on players.

I don’t consider the stats as a reason LeBron is better than Kareem.
 

NineOneSeven

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It’s probably controversial and I’ve changed it a lot of the years but I could argue Hakeem Olajuwon as my 5th best player of all time.

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
LeBron
Hakeem
Magic
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Oscar
 

Alsacs

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It’s probably controversial and I’ve changed it a lot of the years but I could argue Hakeem Olajuwon as my 5th best player of all time.

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
LeBron
Hakeem
Magic
Bird
Russell
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Oscar
Decent list I can’t put Wilt above Russell because Wilt rarely beat Russell.

Wilt scored so much because that is what he wanted to do. His teams weren’t inferior he played with lots of HOFers.

Russell just did dirty work a la Draymond Green and was the ultimate winner.
 

jgeorge322

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The stats are easily to explain.
This season 29 of 30 NBA teams average over 100 Possessions per game.
The last team Charlotte averages 99.8 possessions per game.



In 2003-2004 LeBron’s rookie year 0 teams averaged 100 possessions per game.
The highest possession per game team was Dallas that averaged 96.7 possessions per game.


The NBA has made the game more offense oriented.
They only allow 14 seconds on an offensive rebound, they have become 3 point and drive the ball oriented.
Thus LeBron gets more shots, free throws per game because of the extra possessions and you can’t hand check on defense or play physical defense.
The 80’s/ 90’s defenses beat up players that takes a beating on players.

I don’t consider the stats as a reason LeBron is better than Kareem.
Fair enough. Im not trying to get in a tit for tat over kareem. Im just saying lebron is clearly a top 5 player.
 

NineOneSeven

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Decent list I can’t put Wilt above Russell because Wilt rarely beat Russell.

Wilt scored so much because that is what he wanted to do. His teams weren’t inferior he played with lots of HOFers.

Russell just did dirty work a la Draymond Green and was the ultimate winner.
Very tough for me to rank them. Wilt clearly dominated during his time. Was some of the competition inferior? Sure. But to average 50 in a season and over 30 for a career with 20 rebounds is just crazy. A dominant force. Russell the ultimate winner and defensive player, but people overlook his offensive game, which was definitely not a strong suit. He never shot even 47% from the field (the game was different I know).
 

Alsacs

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Fair enough. Im not trying to get in a tit for tat over kareem. Im just saying lebron is clearly a top 5 player.
I agree with that. As a LeBron hater even i concede he is probably 3rd now and will pass Kareem for 2nd when he is done.
 

Col. Bleep

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The debate of the best ever is skewed by the way the game itself has changed.

Just for example, today players can almost tuck the ball under their arms and move up court without getting called for a travel.
If today's "ball handling" were permissible back in the day... guys like Oscar and Havlicek and Walt Frazier would NEVER have a turnover.

Same thing with the 3-ball and stretch players.
They've displaced the great old school centers like Russell and Wilt.
Somehow, fortunately, Kareem survives on the top 5 list.
 

bpo57

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Blows my mind when people make these lists and Wilt Chamberlain is not on them.

Averaged 30/23 for his career.
One year averaged 50/26.
Led the league in assists one year.
Averaged 46 min per game in his career.
One year averaged 48.5 min per game (that's not a typo).
Never fouled out of a game.
They didn't keep blocked shot stats back then but his would have been off the charts.
 

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