pay for play

[upperdeck]

all the issues its gonna cause.. i wonder if they decide the scholie thing needs an overhaul.. they worry about money and equal playing fields.. some sports are full scholie some are not.. maybe they do it more like they do on academic side.. give the kids 20K towards scholie, any other money they pay out of pocket towards bills and pay taxes on earnings.. at schools like SU they just dropped costs by more than 50%, but it also means state schools dont get to keep the big savings they have now in costs because it costs them less to put the kids through school.

give every kid 20 for school 5K for spending money and everything else is based like every other kid who goes to school, parents money or loans.. make sure kids can get loans through some program the NCAA creates if needbe.

all the money earned by the NIL goes into a huge pot spread equally among all the Div 1 kids.. that way no one school/player gets an advantage.

never happen, I know.

 

[BANYC]

Good suggestion, but state schools with lower tuition vs. private schools would benefit.

How much is tuition, room, board and books at SU? Close to $60K?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

How much is tuition, room, board and books at SU? Close to $60K?

Going to be $76k next year.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

all the issues its gonna cause.. i wonder if they decide the scholie thing needs an overhaul.. they worry about money and equal playing fields.. some sports are full scholie some are not.. maybe they do it more like they do on academic side.. give the kids 20K towards scholie, any other money they pay out of pocket towards bills and pay taxes on earnings.. at schools like SU they just dropped costs by more than 50%, but it also means state schools dont get to keep the big savings they have now in costs because it costs them less to put the kids through school.

give every kid 20 for school 5K for spending money and everything else is based like every other kid who goes to school, parents money or loans.. make sure kids can get loans through some program the NCAA creates if needbe.

all the money earned by the NIL goes into a huge pot spread equally among all the Div 1 kids.. that way no one school/player gets an advantage.

never happen, I know.

So because of the NIL, punish players for being able to make money off of their likenesses by forcing them to give the money they earned back to the school?

Boy, that's the NCAA way.

 

[upperdeck]

Good suggestion, but state schools with lower tuition vs. private schools would benefit.

How much is tuition, room, board and books at SU? Close to $60K?

if they made every school pay the 25K number the state schools dont get the benefit they get now. right now SU budgets the 75k ish number and a state school does 20K do that for 85 scholies and thats 4 million or so the state school doesnt have to spend.. its not a fair system. hurts the kids though who need to find the money.. on the other hand it would depend on the kid how much it hurts. could do the reverse every school pays 75K and if the tuition is less it goes to some NCAA pot used for something not sports related maybe. level the playing field.

 

[upperdeck]

So because of the NIL, punish players for being able to make money off of their likenesses by forcing them to give the money they earned back to the school?

Boy, that's the NCAA way.

so we we want a fair system for all the schools and the kids?

this is like saying I work for Google and they pay me 200K and you work for Syr.com and they pay you 50K. same job. why does that happen?

gonna go well when a kid in a big city makes 50K and a kid at UB gets zero.. its already only about 20 schools that have a chance and 20 more with long shots.. its gonna end up being 5 schools after this all happens.

kids are gonna love that some kid on the team makes 100K playing at Miami and 50 other kid make zero..

 

[upperdeck]

look at school now.. your parents make 40K you get to go to school for free.. my parents make 100K I end up 100K in loan debt.. both get the same job out of school and both had parents pay zero towards college.. how fair is that..

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

so we we want a fair system for all the schools and the kids?

this is like saying I work for Google and they pay me 200K and you work for Syr.com and they pay you 50K. same job. why does that happen?

gonna go well when a kid in a big city makes 50K and a kid at UB gets zero.. its already only about 20 schools that have a chance and 20 more with long shots.. its gonna end up being 5 schools after this all happens.

kids are gonna love that some kid on the team makes 100K playing at Miami and 50 other kid make zero..

So, first of all, as far as I understand it, NIL would allow players to make money off of their likenesses independent of the school. So a starter making 30k and a back up making 0 is immaterial because the money is from outside interest and not internal.

Secondly, these inequalities already exist. There's 20 guys on the Syracuse football team who are not on scholarship while there are 85 that are. No one ever talks about this creating jealousy or locker room problems.

Third, even bigger inequalities occur in the pros. LeBron James makes a huge sum of money on endorsements on top of a $40 million a year deal. Talen Horton-Tucker makes $1.5 million a year and likely has minimal endorsements. Where are the stories of anger and resent there?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

look at school now.. your parents make 40K you get to go to school for free.. my parents make 100K I end up 100K in loan debt.. both get the same job out of school and both had parents pay zero towards college.. how fair is that..

You're very much making an argument I don't think you're intending to make.

 

[upperdeck]

You're very much making an argument I don't think you're intending to make.

yes I am.. You dont think players in the pro resent it even more?

I would much rather the pro system was much equitable.. they make way too much.

And players who walk on no full well why they are doing it. But the issue is trying to make it fair for 100 teams. go back to years ago when there were no scholies at all. who won most of the titles early on? it went from Army/Navy/ND/Ivies who took advantage of the system. then over time it went to P5 type schools and now its gone to down to about 10 schools.

I want a system where half the schools feel like they have a chance. Its gonna end up being even worse because kids wont just go where they can win or go pro but where the can make money. Might as well close Syracuse down at that point in the game.

its all gone be above board now right.. so now those 85 at alabama all will make 100K and the walkons will too.

I have had these discussions with coaches. the ones i know are not happy, its a road once you go down you never come back and its happening without any real thought or planning.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

yes I am.. You dont think players in the pro resent it even more?

I would much rather the pro system was much equitable.. they make way too much.

And players who walk on no full well why they are doing it. But the issue is trying to make it fair for 100 teams. go back to years ago when there were no scholies at all. who won most of the titles early on? it went from Army/Navy/ND/Ivies who took advantage of the system. then over time it went to P5 type schools and now its gone to down to about 10 schools.

I want a system where half the schools feel like they have a chance. Its gonna end up being even worse because kids wont just go where they can win or go pro but where the can make money. Might as well close Syracuse down at that point in the game.

its all gone be above board now right.. so now those 85 at alabama all will make 100K and the walkons will too.

I have had these discussions with coaches. the ones i know are not happy, its a road once you go down you never come back and its happening without any real thought or planning.

Are you okay with coaches and ADs making millions in an ever-growing financial market while player "compensation" (not going down that particular route) grows at a much smaller scale?

 

[upperdeck]

Are you okay with coaches and ADs making millions in an ever-growing financial market while player "compensation" (not going down that particular route) grows at a much smaller scale?

nope. its all stupid

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

nope. its all stupid

So you're not making the argument I thought you were.

It is all stupid.

 

[RandomGuy]

NIL should be a no-brainer, even if its not fair. A recent study by the National Bureau of Economic researcher has a high profile NCAA QBs value at $2.4 M. A star WR at $1.3M. Every starter on a P5 hoops team(or regular contender) worth $1.2M to 800K.

Per Business insider, 2017, the Average of every FBS players worth(all 85) was $163k, with Texas leading the way at $666k a piece. All models use the NFL pay structure model.

I'm all for Title IX. Not letting a player make a buck off their own name and effort just seems silly.

 

[All4SU]

If only there was a place where kids who were good enough to play professionally could go to earn a living.

 

[bnoro]

If only there was a place where kids who were good enough to play professionally could go to earn a living.

If only there was a place where kids could go play for free and bring in millions of dollars for their teams, not benefit from that at all, and then have to go take some entry level job when they graduate while coaches and ADs make exorbitant salaries...

Oh wait that's the current college program!

But at least they get a degree

 

[All4SU]

If only there was a place where kids could go play for free and bring in millions of dollars for their teams, not benefit from that at all, and then have to go take some entry level job when they graduate while coaches and ADs make exorbitant salaries...

Oh wait that's the current college program!

But at least they get a degree

Why try so hard to change CBB? Why not advocate for a solid developmental league for kids who just want to use their skills and make money playing basketball? You’re doing no one any favors throwing them a few bucks and thinking you’ve solved a problem. You’ll make it worse. Seriously!

 

[Scooch]

I would much rather the pro system was much equitable.. they make way too much.

Why do you hate capitalism?

 

[Chip]

If only there was a place where kids could go play for free and bring in millions of dollars for their teams, not benefit from that at all, and then have to go take some entry level job when they graduate while coaches and ADs make exorbitant salaries...

Oh wait that's the current college program!

But at least they get a degree

They should just take the entry level job after high school ends.

 

[upperdeck]

Why do you hate capitalism?

do we all love the fact the oild companies make billions in profits? it has all trickled down, owners make more so players make more so costs go up for fans. movie tickets cost $15 and companies make millions imagine what attendance would be if tickets to pro sports cost $20 and not $200..

now we want to do the same thing to college sports. where is the extra money going to come from to pay players

 

[bnoro]

They should just take the entry level job after high school ends.

Or maybe they can do what most college students do and get a job and be paid while they go to school.

 

[bnoro]

Why try so hard to change CBB? Why not advocate for a solid developmental league for kids who just want to use their skills and make money playing basketball? You’re doing no one any favors throwing them a few bucks and thinking you’ve solved a problem. You’ll make it worse. Seriously!

Why is the argument for not paying college kids "the system is already broken bad enough, don't want to make it worse by giving these kids the money they earned"?

The Supreme Court tore the NCAA a new one the other day in a bipartisan effort. That alone says how messed up the system is.

 

[Scooch]

do we all love the fact the oild companies make billions in profits? it has all trickled down, owners make more so players make more so costs go up for fans. movie tickets cost $15 and companies make millions imagine what attendance would be if tickets to pro sports cost $20 and not $200..

now we want to do the same thing to college sports. where is the extra money going to come from to pay players

I'm a pretty liberal guy, but if companies are following the law I'm not comfortable capping their "profits" because of feelings. If people want to change laws (e.g. higher taxes) that's one thing, but I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting here?

LeBron shouldn't be able to make what the Lakers can pay him, within the boundaries of the salary cap? No endorsements past a certain financial threshold?

Ticket prices are a function of supply-and-demand. It doesn't cost $200 to attend an SU football game. It does to attend a New England Patriots game, but they also fill a 68K seat stadium every week because people are willing to pay that.

 

[Chip]

Or maybe they can do what most college students do and get a job and be paid while they go to school.

It's a pretty big leap from a minimum wage job in the dining hall vs sharing in the multi-million dollar inequity scheme that college football has going. You should probably pick a lane on that one.

I agree with you that players should get their piece of the pie, but everyone needs to be ready to accept that it's probably a major shift and SU could get even further squeezed from the top levels of the sport.

I also just hate when free education, while not equitable, is considered nothing at all. But someday all student loans will probably go away anyway, so I'm sure I won't care at that point.

 

[bnoro]

It's a pretty big leap from a minimum wage job in the dining hall vs sharing in the multi-million dollar inequity scheme that college football has going. You should probably pick a lane on that one.

I agree with you that players should get their piece of the pie, but everyone needs to be ready to accept that it's probably a major shift and SU could get even further squeezed from the top levels of the sport.

I also just hate when free education, while not equitable, is considered nothing at all. But someday all student loans will probably go away anyway, so I'm sure I won't care at that point.

SU is already squeezed away from the top levels of sport.

SU football will continue to be a lower level P5 program with NIL. SU Basketball will continue to be a top tier power conference program with NIL. If colleges pay players a certain percentage of revenue the same thing will happen.

Also, a free education for a bachelor's degree, in 2021, doesn't mean a ton in the fields these guys end up majoring in. If they were coming here for engineering degrees maybe they would be a liberal arts degree at SU is the same as a liberal arts degree at SUNY Plattsburg.