Class of 2018 PF/C Osun Osunniyi (CT) to St. Bonaventure

[reedny]

Because we have a hof coach with a reputation for not developing players, playing a star system, not using a consistent rotation, a win now approach, etc... yes I agree Coach K does the same but he doesn’t have the rep for it for whatever reason.

I wonder how losing that entire class of Buss, BJ, Joseph, etc has been perceived on the recruiting trail. If I had a kid who was a borderlin tier 1 or 2 player I’m not sure I would send him to Syracuse to develop if he had any aspirations of actually playing in games.

But judging the program by Joseph, BJ and Buss is a pretty skewed sample. A couple of those transfers were in the midst of NCAA issues when we didn't have the roster space (scholarships) to develop kids as we normally would. Other than those outliers, for every departure there's a success story like Tyler Lydon or a Malachi Richardson, going all the way back to Hak. So, while I'm not saying this is your opinion personally (I've heard this gripe before), I don't buy it.

Same with "win now". College hoops is incredibly competitive, especially in the top national conference - ACC. You can play development guys in the exhibitioin games and a few early contests. But you're not going to get very far as a coach if you don't win important OOC games. I think JB plays guys that earn their minutes. It's not hard to see why some get yanked -- stupid TO's, poor shots, failing to close out several times, allowing a lay-up or getting out-rebounded in your area. I have to say, in the vast majority of those instances, it's not only a legitimate teaching tool but it helps the team. Kids need to learn. Yes, JB yells some times. But other coaches do the same thing. Lip read Mike Brey some time. Development is a two-way street ... at this level players have to contribute at both ends to stay on the Court. If they decide to pout and transfer instead of learning and getting better, I'm not going to fault JB.

Every program at SU's level has good players and will keep getting good recruits. If you don't earn your minutes and also refuse to learn, develop and put in your time, we probably don't want you and I'm not sure any upper-tier ACC school would either.

 

[kuethstheman]

But judging the program by Joseph, BJ and Buss is a pretty small sample size. A couple of those transfers were in the midst of the NCAA issues when our roster needs became immediate and we didn't have enough scholarships to develop kids as we normally would. Other than those outliers, for every departure there's a success story like Tyler Lydon or a Malachi Richardson, going all the way back to Hak. So, while I'm not saying this is your opinion personally (I've heard this gripe before), I don't buy it.

Same with "win now". College hoops is incredibly competitive, especially in the top national conference - ACC. You can play development guys in the exhibitioin games and a few early contests. But you're not going to get very far as a coach if you don't win important OOC games. Not making the tournament will affect your reputation and limit the exposure of your players. I think JB plays guys that earn their minutes. As fans of the program, we can all see what gets guys yanked -- stupid TO's, poor shots, failing to close out several times or allowing a lay-up or getting outrebounded in your area. But pulling guys is also a teaching tool. They need to learn. JB yells some times but other coaches do the same thing. Lip read Mike Brey sometime. Development is a two-way street ... at this level players have to contribute at both ends to stay on the Court. If they decide to pout and transfer instead of learning and getting better, I'm not going to fault JB.

Every program at SU's level has good players and will keep getting good recruits. If you don't earn your minutes and also refuse to learn, develop and put in your time, we probably don't want you and I'm not sure any upper-tier ACC school would either.

Some other very successful coaches do not share JB's philosophy on developmental playing time. If given an option, some kids will want to play for a coach that uses different methods to teach.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Because we have a hof coach with a reputation for not developing players, playing a star system, not using a consistent rotation, a win now approach, etc... yes I agree Coach K does the same but he doesn’t have the rep for it for whatever reason.

I wonder how losing that entire class of Buss, BJ, Joseph, etc has been perceived on the recruiting trail. If I had a kid who was a borderlin tier 1 or 2 player I’m not sure I would send him to Syracuse to develop if he had any aspirations of actually playing in games.

Joseph was just a colossal miss at a bad time. He wasn’t going to develop here and he can’t get off the bench at Creighton. Seriously, he only plays when there is significant foul trouble to the three guards ahead of him in the rotation or if they routed someone thus getting some run in with the walkons. Patterson wasn’t very good but I doubt he was being expected to be a serious contributer.

Roberson was an enigma and it’s fair to say he didn’t develop like most expected. BJ’s situation was unfortunate because he probably would’ve been pretty good here. Moyer is another miss. Really too bad about Diagne. He seemed like he would be physically ready for ACC from day 1 and pretty skilled.

Who knows re: Malachi, Lydon, McCullough, etc. Most if not all would’ve improved some. The more pressing question is, besides the money, why leave when you have lots of work to do improving as a player? Who knows how much they liked playing in this system, JB, etc. Valid questions to ask of course.

As far as recruiting questions and head scratchers goes; I suppose some kids/coaches could question some of the ‘eggs-all-in-one’ basket approach which has backfired a few times.

 

[SUFan44]

Wouldn’t have harmed on court chemistry.

You cannot say that with certainty. There have been a couple seasons that I know off court chemistry damaged on-court performance.

 

[Shark58]

Joseph was just a colossal miss at a bad time. He wasn’t going to develop here and he can’t get off the bench at Creighton. Seriously, he only plays when there is significant foul trouble to the three guards ahead of him in the rotation or if they routed someone thus getting some run in with the walkons. Patterson wasn’t very good but I doubt he was being expected to be a serious contributer.

Roberson was an enigma and it’s fair to say he didn’t develop like most expected. BJ’s situation was unfortunate because he probably would’ve been pretty good here. Moyer is another miss. Really too bad about Diagne. He seemed physically ready for ACC from day 1 and pretty skilled.

Who knows re: Malachi, Lydon, McCullough, etc. Most if not all would’ve improved some. The more pressing question is, besides the money, why leave when you have lots of work to do improving as a player? Who knows how much they liked playing in this system, JB, etc. Valid questions to ask of course.

As far as recruiting questions and head scratchers goes; I suppose some kids/coaches could question some of the ‘eggs-all-in-one’ basket approach which has backfired a few times.

because the NBA drafts on potential and upside, not polish

 

[SoBeCuse]

because the NBA drafts on potential and upside, not polish

Right. They have certain measurables and such as well. I guess kudos to them for fooling these GMs and NBA personnel. Personally I never saw Lydon or Mali as NBA type players beyond the G-League. I had the opposite views about Rozier and Donovan Mitchell. Now, I didn’t think they would be blowing up like this but I thought they would be good and solid NBA players for awhile.

 

[Shark58]

Right. They have certain measurables and such as well. I guess kudos to them for fooling these GMs and NBA personnel. Personally I never saw Lydon or Mali as NBA type players beyond the G-League. I had the opposite views about Rozier and Donovan Mitchell. Now, I didn’t think they would be blowing up like this but I thought they would be good and solid NBA players for awhile.

I used to be in the camp that players should come back for that next year to get them more ready for the next level but the truth is they should jump when the contract is there. recently we've had a couple of years where we had 2 players who would play similar positions in the NBA go pro and in both cases the young player with upside who didn't come close to maxing his potential during his freshman year went well above the upperclassman who was a far superior player at that same moment in time.

 

[Day2]

Because we have a hof coach with a reputation for not developing players...

What?

 

[Cuseball]

What?

Exactly. What is this person talking about? Although to give the poster credit you hear this uneducated view parroted by a lot of people. There is no doubt that Jimmy B finds talent and develops it.

 

[Lucid]

to give the poster credit you hear this uneducated view parroted by a lot of people

Giving credit.*

*I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[moqui]

I wonder how losing that entire class of Buss, BJ, Joseph, etc has been perceived on the recruiting trail.

well joseph was not in the same class, but given that, since that class, jb & co have closed on nationally ranked recruits like
malachi richardson, moustapha diagne, tyler lydon, tyus battle, matthew moyer, oshae brissett, darius bazley, and jalen carey
i'd say the answer is "not an ephing bit"

 

[Cusefan0307]

Right. They have certain measurables and such as well. I guess kudos to them for fooling these GMs and NBA personnel. Personally I never saw Lydon or Mali as NBA type players beyond the G-League. I had the opposite views about Rozier and Donovan Mitchell. Now, I didn’t think they would be blowing up like this but I thought they would be good and solid NBA players for awhile.

Hard to write off Mali and Lydon one and two years in. The Celtics didn’t even know what they had in Rozier until they had about 4 injuries to guards. His first two years in the league he shot 35% and wasn’t even part of the rotation.

Anyway this kid can hopefully sit and develop this year behind Chukwu and Sidibe.

 

[pearl31]

Wouldn’t have harmed on court chemistry.

not so sure.
but we can only speculate now

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

But judging the program by Joseph, BJ and Buss is a pretty small sample size. A couple of those transfers were in the midst of NCAA issues when we didn't have the roster space (scholarships) to develop kids as we normally would. Other than those outliers, for every departure there's a success story like Tyler Lydon or a Malachi Richardson, going all the way back to Hak. So, while I'm not saying this is your opinion personally (I've heard this gripe before), I don't buy it.

Same with "win now". College hoops is incredibly competitive, especially in the top national conference - ACC. You can play development guys in the exhibitioin games and a few early contests. But you're not going to get very far as a coach if you don't win important OOC games. I think JB plays guys that earn their minutes. It's not hard to see why some get yanked -- stupid TO's, poor shots, failing to close out several times, allowing a lay-up or getting out-rebounded in your area. I have to say, in the vast majority of those instances, it's not only a legitimate teaching tool but it helps the team. Kids need to learn. Yes, JB yells some times. But other coaches do the same thing. Lip read Mike Brey some time. Development is a two-way street ... at this level players have to contribute at both ends to stay on the Court. If they decide to pout and transfer instead of learning and getting better, I'm not going to fault JB.

Every program at SU's level has good players and will keep getting good recruits. If you don't earn your minutes and also refuse to learn, develop and put in your time, we probably don't want you and I'm not sure any upper-tier ACC school would either.

Except one of the ex Carolina players turned commentator once asked on national TV, why do Syracuse players develop so much between their first and second years? I disagree that JB doesn't develop players. He may be the best at it.
Warrick, Lydon, Rautins, Christmas, Dion, MCW, etc. I think the (relatively) lack of high level NBA stardom is a testament to JB: he developed lesser talent into NBA draft choices. Once there, their overall lack of elite ability renders them just another guy.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

But judging the program by Joseph, BJ and Buss is a pretty skewed sample. A couple of those transfers were in the midst of NCAA issues when we didn't have the roster space (scholarships) to develop kids as we normally would. Other than those outliers, for every departure there's a success story like Tyler Lydon or a Malachi Richardson, going all the way back to Hak. So, while I'm not saying this is your opinion personally (I've heard this gripe before), I don't buy it.

Same with "win now". College hoops is incredibly competitive, especially in the top national conference - ACC. You can play development guys in the exhibitioin games and a few early contests. But you're not going to get very far as a coach if you don't win important OOC games. I think JB plays guys that earn their minutes. It's not hard to see why some get yanked -- stupid TO's, poor shots, failing to close out several times, allowing a lay-up or getting out-rebounded in your area. I have to say, in the vast majority of those instances, it's not only a legitimate teaching tool but it helps the team. Kids need to learn. Yes, JB yells some times. But other coaches do the same thing. Lip read Mike Brey some time. Development is a two-way street ... at this level players have to contribute at both ends to stay on the Court. If they decide to pout and transfer instead of learning and getting better, I'm not going to fault JB.

Every program at SU's level has good players and will keep getting good recruits. If you don't earn your minutes and also refuse to learn, develop and put in your time, we probably don't want you and I'm not sure any upper-tier ACC school would either.

IMO, only BJ from that group was a basketball loss. Kid would have been a good player from SU. The other 2 could not play at an ACC/SU level.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Hard to write off Mali and Lydon one and two years in. The Celtics didn’t even know what they had in Rozier until they had about 4 injuries to guards. His first two years in the league he shot 35% and wasn’t even part of the rotation.

Anyway this kid can hopefully sit and develop this year behind Chukwu and Sidibe.

Yeah, I cant really tell how good this current kid is. Not that high on Braswell either. More of a project IMO but he could be good down the road.

But, yeah, that’s fair re: Mali/Lydon. I will say that Rozier was still getting 17mpg LAST year for Boston. Mali and Lydon have been exiled to the G-League. Who knows if they’ll get out of there.

 

[20Plus]

So he’s visiting Thursday!

 

[Day2]

Yeah, I cant really tell how good this current kid is. Not that high on Braswell either. More of a project IMO but he could be good down the road.

But, yeah, that’s fair re: Mali/Lydon. I will say that Rozier was still getting 17mpg LAST year for Boston. Mali and Lydon have been exiled to the G-League. Who knows if they’ll get out of there.

I think it takes more than 1-2 years before you can say a player has been exiled.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah, I cant really tell how good this current kid is. Not that high on Braswell either. More of a project IMO but he could be good down the road.

But, yeah, that’s fair re: Mali/Lydon. I will say that Rozier was still getting 17mpg LAST year for Boston. Mali and Lydon have been exiled to the G-League. Who knows if they’ll get out of there.

Curious as to why you are down on Braswell. There isn't a lot of tape on him. I know some are bigger fans of the guys everybody is in love with but guys with limited tape have worked out well for us. Braswell is kind of a foreign kid in some ways in that regard...

 

[pfister1]

Because we have a hof coach with a reputation for not developing players, playing a star system, not using a consistent rotation, a win now approach, etc... yes I agree Coach K does the same but he doesn’t have the rep for it for whatever reason.

I wonder how losing that entire class of Buss, BJ, Joseph, etc has been perceived on the recruiting trail. If I had a kid who was a borderlin tier 1 or 2 player I’m not sure I would send him to Syracuse to develop if he had any aspirations of actually playing in games.

I wonder how many players we lost back in the day before social media allowed us to know every offer that was made, follow every AAU game that the staff attends and basically know every time they even become aware of a kid?? I mean I remember 25 or 30 years ago being lucky to get a single offseason article talking about recruiting. I bet we had a lot of swings and misses back in the day too, we just didn't follow them in real time like we do today.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Curious as to why you are down on Braswell. There isn't a lot of tape on him. I know some are bigger fans of the guys everybody is in love with but guys with limited tape have worked out well for us. Braswell is kind of a foreign kid in some ways in that regard...

True. I don’t know. Somebody said he would be another Southerland or a better version of him. Southerland was also a bit of a project who developed for sure. I don’t know. I think Southerland’s competition in high school was a lot better. This kid does have a nice stroke for sure but takes a long time to get his shot off. Southerland seemed quicker in general and a much quicker/explosive leaper. This kid seems a bit clunky but some upside for sure.

 

[Orangezoo]

True. I don’t know. Somebody said he would be another Southerland or a better version of him. Southerland was also a bit of a project who developed for sure. I don’t know. I think Southerland’s competition in high school was a lot better. This kid does have a nice stroke for sure but takes a long time to get his shot off. Southerland seemed quicker in general and a much quicker/explosive leaper. This kid seems a bit clunky but some upside for sure.

From the limited looks his reaction time in both finding the open man and around the rim looks good. Definitely slow getting his shot off for sure. I do see some Southerland comparisons but he definitely is more advanced around the rim and as a passer. Also as a high jumper, the strides are longer and can make his playing speed deceiving. Interesting to see what he looks like when on campus if we land him for sure.

Having played overseas I would bet his learning curve is not as steep given the bball iq but that is simply my speculation.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Because we have a hof coach with a reputation for not developing players, playing a star system, not using a consistent rotation, a win now approach, etc... yes I agree Coach K does the same but he doesn’t have the rep for it for whatever reason.

I wonder how losing that entire class of Buss, BJ, Joseph, etc has been perceived on the recruiting trail. If I had a kid who was a borderlin tier 1 or 2 player I’m not sure I would send him to Syracuse to develop if he had any aspirations of actually playing in games.

Buss, BJ, and Joseph were in two different recruiting classes (2013 and 2014). Also in those two classes are three NBA players and SU's starting point guard. Not bad for what's considered a rough stretch in recent SU hoops history. It all depends on how you look at things I suppose.

 

[SUFan44]

Buss, BJ, and Joseph were in two different recruiting classes (2013 and 2014). Also in those two classes are three NBA players and SU's starting point guard. Not bad for what's considered a rough stretch in recent SU hoops history. It all depends on how you look at things I suppose.

If not for the scholarship crunch, my opinion is that BJ could have and would have stayed at SU.

 

[SUFan44]

There's a good article from McAllister on Osunniyi. Call it a hunch or a gut feeling, but I think we may get two commitments from this weekend.