Howard Washington | Page 16 | Syracusefan.com

Howard Washington

We need a program guard. They're not supposed to be great in the first 2 years. But you develop and build with them. We've completely forgotten the developmental aspect and building of a top 10 basketball team. We need legs for stars to stand on. We can't survive playing Kentucky's and Kansas' one n done game, especially with JB leaving.
 
I'm not completely disagreeing, but, I dunno. "Program Guy" sounds like a guy who won't be very good for the first two years. Franklin Howard and BJ Johnson were Program Guys. Who plays next year? Well enough to not have us posting "miss me yet" with pictures of Gillon (and Howard?).

It just kinda sickens me that we are at the point in this program where we are going to have to be grateful for signing the baseball equivalent to "a lottery ticket."

I'm gonna go re-watch Washington videos to try to convince myself you're right.

I don't agree with that--some program guys contribute from the very beginning of their careers. See: CJ Fair. Others might take a year to crack the rotation, which is more about team depth than their talent level.

But I don't agree with the notion that program guys necessarily = "less talented." Some of the program guys we've had were pretty good players.
 
This is the thing I don't get.

WE NEED GUARDS. Guard-zzzzzzz. Plural.
This. They don't all work out, remember? 5th year transfer PG, Washington, Upper Tier Fr PG. We need 2 of the 3 and I'm not picky at this point. Washington could be Kaleb Joseph or he could be Scoop Jardine. If we get him and a 5th year guy he gets a year to adjust to college. If we get him and a "better" Fr PG then hopefully one of them can help Howard next year.
 
I don't agree with that--some program guys contribute from the very beginning of their careers. See: CJ Fair. Others might take a year to crack the rotation, which is more about team depth than their talent level.

But I don't agree with the notion that program guys necessarily = "less talented." Some of the program guys we've had were pretty good players.
Agreed, and you never know, I don't think Moten was brought in to be a star, but he was pretty good from the start. It is very hard to tell which guys will make the transition. That is why we should trust the staff's evaluations and allow them their mistakes. Obviously we want every guy to surpass expectations, but that is unrealistic. BTW, not calling you out RF, just piggy backing on your point.
 
Why's this kid considered a lottery ticket, he was just committed to a team that's seen the 'ship two times to our 0 in the past 10 years.
 
We need a program guard. They're not supposed to be great in the first 2 years. But you develop and build with them. We've completely forgotten the developmental aspect and building of a top 10 basketball team. We need legs for stars to stand on. We can't survive playing Kentucky's and Kansas' one n done game, especially with JB leaving.

I think there's a lot of validity to what you are saying. Our program was at its best not long ago when we had a solid foundation of quality four year program players who had game, supplemented by a dose of upper echelon talent to [hopefully] take things to the next level. That was the formula that was used to build both the 2010 and the 2012 squads.

Where we seemed to get in trouble / off track in terms of our roster balance / talent / experience / depth was when we went in more on guys who had the capacity to leave earlier at the exclusionary expense of guys who might have helped us long term. Ennis instead of Monte Morris [just as an example].

Not to mention, many of the "one and doners" we get aren't elite, transcendent caliber talents. They are good enough to jump early, but not good enough to make a huge impact on the program before they do. So while we've landed some of those guys, they are often gone before the program gets the true benefit of them having chosen to come here. And then we're scrambling to replace them. Meanwhile, guys who might have had a lengthier career here are left by the wayside.

It isn't cut and dry. Who made a bigger impact--Flynn or Scoop? Greene or Jackson? Not easy to answer.
 
I want Ayala, Duerte, and Washington. Forget the grad transfer guards. Put the ball in Battle's hands next year. Look for a grad transfer SF that can shoot.

Agree with the first and fourth sentence, not the second or third [if it can be avoided].

But that's part of the problem--we need to come out of this recruiting class with TWO [not just one] starters at the three wing positions. If we land a true PG who can start next year, then that covers one of those spots.

If we land a 2, then that might push a kid like Battle to the 3 since he's got the physical capabilities to play there.

And if we land a starting caliber 3 [per your last sentence] then that might facilitate a situation where we have to play two combo guards.

No matter what the combination, we have lots of question marks heading into next year, and roster issues that aren't easily solved.

BTW, I agree--would like to land all three, but I think we'll be lucky to land two of them. I would feel a helluva lot better if we already had Duarte and / or Ayala in the fold, which at the current time we do not.
 
I think there's a lot of validity to what you are saying. Our program was at its best not long ago when we had a solid foundation of quality four year program players who had game, supplemented by a dose of upper echelon talent to [hopefully] take things to the next level. That was the formula that was used to build both the 2010 and the 2012 squads.

Where we seemed to get in trouble / off track in terms of our roster balance / talent / experience / depth was when we went in more on guys who had the capacity to leave earlier at the exclusionary expense of guys who might have helped us long term. Ennis instead of Monte Morris [just as an example].

Not to mention, many of the "one and doners" we get aren't elite, transcendent caliber talents. They are good enough to jump early, but not good enough to make a huge impact on the program before they do. So while we've landed some of those guys, they are often gone before the program gets the true benefit of them having chosen to come here. And then we're scrambling to replace them. Meanwhile, guys who might have had a lengthier career here are left by the wayside.

It isn't cut and dry. Who made a bigger impact--Flynn or Scoop? Greene or Jackson? Not easy to answer.

I've always thought (and I think I've said this before on the board) that I thought that recruiting class was like a perfect recruiting class for us. Obviously you'd like to get an Anthony Davis every year or whatever, but that's not realistic. So, if memory serves, that was a 4 player class that basically gave you 2 elite level talents who stuck around for a year or two (granted you'd like to have gotten a little more out of Greene but bear with me) and 2 4 year guys who were strong contributors to very good teams by the second half of their career.


Also totally agree on the first thing I bolded, our top level recruiting seems to max out, more often than not, at getting high level prospects who have a good chance to be one and done, but aren't the elite of the elite (Davis, Towns, Melo); the guys who really drive you to titles. It can be a tough needle to thread.
 
Again, I've been very impressed with how he keeps getting tremendous rebounding numbers for a guard.
His numbers have been great, but has it been confirmed what kind of competition they are playing? With Brissett getting 29 rebounds and Washington getting damn near a triple double every game, it would mean that they are both 5 stars or they are playing in a CYO league.
 
I think there's a lot of validity to what you are saying. Our program was at its best not long ago when we had a solid foundation of quality four year program players who had game, supplemented by a dose of upper echelon talent to [hopefully] take things to the next level. That was the formula that was used to build both the 2010 and the 2012 squads.

Where we seemed to get in trouble / off track in terms of our roster balance / talent / experience / depth was when we went in more on guys who had the capacity to leave earlier at the exclusionary expense of guys who might have helped us long term. Ennis instead of Monte Morris [just as an example].

Not to mention, many of the "one and doners" we get aren't elite, transcendent caliber talents. They are good enough to jump early, but not good enough to make a huge impact on the program before they do. So while we've landed some of those guys, they are often gone before the program gets the true benefit of them having chosen to come here. And then we're scrambling to replace them. Meanwhile, guys who might have had a lengthier career here are left by the wayside.

It isn't cut and dry. Who made a bigger impact--Flynn or Scoop? Greene or Jackson? Not easy to answer.

Good point. It isn't cut and dry, because my answers would be Flynn and Jackson.
 
His numbers have been great, but has it been confirmed what kind of competition they are playing? With Brissett getting 29 rebounds and Washington getting damn near a triple double every game, it would mean that they are both 5 stars or they are playing in a CYO league.

Did bjorn move to Canada and does he have any high school eligibility left?
 
Did bjorn move to Canada and does he have any high school eligibility left?
He is tearing up the Northern Eskimo league. Unfortunately, he turned pro. He gets paid in fish and blubber. He is a local celebrity and fathered many illegitimate children. Much of his blubber is dispersed among the mothers of his children.
 
Seriously, though. I think Lincoln Prep (the team A.I. just played) is pretty good, for example. They are another one of those basketball factories, similar to A.I. They are 26-5 overall (13-1 in their district). I think they're pretty good competition. They travel all over Canada and play games in the U.S. too.
Ok, so 15 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists are good against a good opponent. I think I agree with those that want to bring in Washington, just to have a true point guard on the roster. Then if we get Ayala and/or Duarte, we can try them at PG and if it doesn't work Washington will be right there. Although, maybe he beats them out from the get go.
 
I want Ayala, Duerte, and Washington. Forget the grad transfer guards. Put the ball in Battle's hands next year. Look for a grad transfer SF that can shoot.
I have wanted this all season. I think regardless if Frank is here or not, that this should be the team's thought unless we somehow find a better option(don't think we're even recruiting one).
 
Is it possible we snag Duarte and Washington this class and Ayala commits for 18? It would leave a spot for a (hopwfullt) high scoring grad transfer SF. Would be nice right?
 
I have wanted this all season. I think regardless if Frank is here or not, that this should be the team's thought unless we somehow find a better option(don't think we're even recruiting one).

There is zero evidence to suggest that Battle would thrive in that role. JB also gave a hard thumbs down to the idea of him playing lead guard last week.

I don't understand why everyone is always so eager to change everybody's position, and have them in roles that they aren't well suited for.
 

Looks like Washington's 15/5/5 stat line was only in the first half. No clue why he didn't play in the first half.
 
There is zero evidence to suggest that Battle would thrive in that role. JB also gave a hard thumbs down to the idea of him playing lead guard last week.

I don't understand why everyone is always so eager to change everybody's position, and have them in roles that they aren't well suited for.
I'm not shouting for everyone to change positions, and let's not pretend that just cus JB said it, that there's no way it could work. I say it strictly off the idea that he has shown time and time again to be the best ball handler on the team. Unless we pick up an actual point guard that's not going to change. I'd prefer we find someone else since Battle would be best in the exact role he's in now. I don't want to change him, but if what we are looking at right now happens, it should at least be considered.
 
I'm not shouting for everyone to change positions, and let's not pretend that just cus JB said it, that there's no way it could work. I say it strictly off the idea that he has shown time and time again to be the best ball handler on the team. Unless we pick up an actual point guard that's not going to change. I'd prefer we find someone else since Battle would be best in the exact role he's in now. I don't want to change him, but if what we are looking at right now happens, it should at least be considered.

Problem is, he hasn't shown that. Nor has he shown much of an aptitude for creating offense for others.

He's pretty good at creating his own shot. Let's have him keep doing that, where he could be exceptional and a transcendent offensive talent next year.
 

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