Class of 2017 PG Tremont Waters (CT) to LSU

[RF2044]

I agree with this I just don't like betting the season on Howard's play at the point.

Agree 100%. But let's see how things play out. I expect him to return, but who knows? Will this year's experience be humbling for him, and will he grow from it, or will he still be the same out of control player next season? Will he improve to the point where he can be trusted as a starter, or will he just play out as a reserve for the rest of his career.

Lots of unknowns with Howard at this point.

 

[jordoo]

Agree 100%. But let's see how things play out. I expect him to return, but who knows? Will this year's experience be humbling for him, and will he grow from it, or will he still be the same out of control player next season?

In some respects I can understand the issue. If you bring in Washington (future PG backup guard) Ayala (ready to contribute combo) a grad transfer (starting PG) and you have Battle coming back. (Team offense will revolve around him) Then you are pretty much telling Frank you don't believe in him and at best he busts his but the right way to try and compete and get minutes. With his history though that could also go horribly wrong in the other direction. He's a young guy so of course he can change and improve as a player and a person. Its called growing up for a reason after all. Dashers information leads me to believe that the staff or JB thinks Howard is our starting PG the next two seasons and they or JB is OK with that and expecting him to do well. I hope they are correct but it doesn't give me the warm fussy's. Hopefully going into the season knowing he is the PG helps Frank out. And worse case scenario if we get Ayala we are starting 2 combo guards and have Washington backing them both up if the Frank thing blows up again.

 

[OrangeMaNPD]

Point being - we're not getting Tremont Waters.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Tremont wont end up at Duke according to their insiders. Duval is all theirs, so I am curious where Waters will end up.

 

[OttoMets]

Good. Don't want 5th years anymore to be honest. Would rather a true transfer kid come in.

I know I'll get killed because we wouldn't have been any good without Gillon & White - and I agree. I'm just saying, I don't think it's a winning strategy.

Agree!

Find good players, coach 'em up for four years, win games.

It worked for 40 years. No need to reinvent the wheel, just rediscover patience and player development.

 

[SoBeCuse]

All good points. Just have to be patient I guess. From what I understood; Hopkins wanted Frank out and Boeheim overruled. So even more reason to keep him around now. If Frank is being counted on playing meaningful minutes as a starter or reserve then he has a golden chance to prove himself and erase the past.

Hard to trust the staff with how they have handled guard recruiting (instinctual guards and ballhandlers especially) lately. I won't get into offensive system/structure but you watch these tournament games and even Xavier/Kansas St have guards we would kill for. Xavier loses Sumner and their guards, especially Macura step up. I think Washington will prove to be a very good get. This guy seems to already know how to play the position. Even in practice as someone not being counted on next year; he could be a valuable asset. It's clear now that when you don't have any TRUE PGs and so few good guards on the roster then even the practices won't be as effective as they should be, imo. I'm really not knocking Gillon either. He did what he could, won us some games, and am thankful for both him and White. They resonate way more to me than even a CMac or Donte Greene. They were band-aids for the wounds the staff created.

 

[Fly Rodder]

But if you need your 5th year guys to be everything that SU needed Gillon & White to be, its a losing proposition in my opinion.

And I agree. But it begs the question, is the zone the most important part of Syracuse winning basketball games?

Take away that and focus on using a simpler, or more natural defense, and rely on the natural talent to win games. It's a choice. Some of the best defenses I've seen at Syracuse is zone clicking at all levels with the right mix of talent, size, and experience. Louisville, to use your example, plays very good-to-great defense typically and mixes in pretty much everything but the kitchen sink. And they do so with mostly experienced guys who have been in the system, yet they relied on two grad transfers a season ago and had a fantastic defense. So, I'd be curious as to why they still had a great defense with two grad transfers, freshmen and sophomores and Syracuse couldn't crack the top-100 defenses this season. Maybe it's just the caliber of player, but SU had pretty good size and athleticism this season (minus Gillon, but like RF said, Howard was worse).

 

[pfister1]

Good. Don't want 5th years anymore to be honest. Would rather a true transfer kid come in.

I know I'll get killed because we wouldn't have been any good without Gillon & White - and I agree. I'm just saying, I don't think it's a winning strategy.

You'll get killed on your comment because it completely ignores the fact that a traditional transfer is not immediately available to play. The reason to pursue a grad transfer is because we have an immediate need at a position and weren't able to fill it through the traditional route with an incoming freshman. In the absence of an immediate need, I don't think JB would spend much time on grad transfers because they are likely to be somewhat hit or miss and only have one year of eligibility.

I think just about everyone's preference would be to fill all of our needs with incoming freshman that are capable of filling the need. They provide the most upside both because they have developmental upside and because they have the potential to be a part of the program for 4 years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

And I agree. But it begs the question, is the zone the most important part of Syracuse winning basketball games?

Take away that and focus on using a simpler, or more natural defense, and rely on the natural talent to win games. It's a choice. Some of the best defenses I've seen at Syracuse is zone clicking at all levels with the right mix of talent, size, and experience. Louisville, to use your example, plays very good-to-great defense typically and mixes in pretty much everything but the kitchen sink. And they do so with mostly experienced guys who have been in the system, yet they relied on two grad transfers a season ago and had a fantastic defense. So, I'd be curious as to why they still had a great defense with two grad transfers, freshmen and sophomores and Syracuse couldn't crack the top-100 defenses this season. Maybe it's just the caliber of player, but SU had pretty good size and athleticism this season (minus Gillon, but like RF said, Howard was worse).

It's a small sample size (one year), and there are a few variables (youth at other positions, players not stepping up/regressing, injuries. ) I just don't see how you can condemn grad transfers accross the board.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Good. Don't want 5th years anymore to be honest. Would rather a true transfer kid come in.

I know I'll get killed because we wouldn't have been any good without Gillon & White - and I agree. I'm just saying, I don't think it's a winning strategy.

It's not a strategy. It's a way to fix issues that were created by not recruiting well enough to have a complete and competitive roster.

And since we're in the same boat as last year, we better find some players to come in and contribute right away, especially scoring.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Even with Frank, Washington, Battle and Ayala for next year, I wish we would grab a 5th year..even for depth purposes...what if Frank stays regressed by the time regular season hits and we're stuck

 

[Jasoncuse]

Even with Frank, Washington, Battle and Ayala for next year, I wish we would grab a 5th year..even for depth purposes...what if Frank stays regressed by the time regular season hits and we're stuck

And where is our outside shooting and scoring? That's my biggest issue with not adding a proven college player.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

And where is our outside shooting and scoring? That's my biggest issue with not adding a proven college player.

100% agree. Idc if it's a combo or sg that we bring in..just someone who can help bring the ball up and can shoot...Mobley from St. Bonnie would be perfect

 

[Cuse'91]

I love how the staff is supposedly not even trying for Waters. All in on Ayala; to some posters, he is already a "done deal."
What's the old saying? Fool me once, shame on...

 

[jordoo]

And where is our outside shooting and scoring? That's my biggest issue with not adding a proven college player.

I feel like all those guys can knock down open 3's (even Frank started the season taking and making good 3's) but I'm not sure any of them are going to be lights out shooters from deep. White was a great shooter, Tyler was a very good shooter and Gillon and Battle made teams pay. Its going to be hard to match that no matter who we have. We will have to drive and slash a lot more next year IMO. I also hope that we utilize TT in the post often.

 

[jordoo]

I love how the staff is supposedly not even trying for Waters. All in on Ayala; to some posters, he is already a "done deal."
What's the old saying? Fool me once, shame on...

Yep, that is certainly a big concern. You have to learn from your mistakes and I'd hope we have already contacted a few backup plans.

 

[Cuse'91]

Yep, that is certainly a big concern. You have to learn from your mistakes and I'd hope we have already contacted a few backup plans.

Back in the day, the strategy worked for Cuse, zero in on a guy and get him. Times change, adapt or die...

 

[orange44]

100% agree. Idc if it's a combo or sg that we bring in..just someone who can help bring the ball up and can shoot...Mobley from St. Bonnie would be perfect

Agree.

 

[dyedorange]

I feel like all those guys can knock down open 3's (even Frank started the season taking and making good 3's) but I'm not sure any of them are going to be lights out shooters from deep. White was a great shooter, Tyler was a very good shooter and Gillon and Battle made teams pay. Its going to be hard to match that no matter who we have. We will have to drive and slash a lot more next year IMO. I also hope that we utilize TT in the post often.

I'd like to see TT used more often next year too. We know he can do something when given the ball down low, but there were times he seemed a little over-determined to score when he touched the ball. What would be really great to see out of him, from an offensive development standpoint, is learning when to pass back out to an open shooter. Being able to have a reliable post threat that can draw defenders could open things up for us bit, and facilitate better outside shooting.

 

[721Comstock]

I'd like to see TT used more often next year too. We know he can do something when given the ball down low, but there were times he seemed a little over-determined to score when he touched the ball. What would be really great to see out of him, from an offensive development standpoint, is learning when to pass back out to an open shooter. Being able to have a reliable post threat that can draw defenders could open things up for us bit, and facilitate better outside shooting.

TT seemed to do a better job of this earlier in the season - he and Lydon had some nice high-low action working.
As the season progressed, he became a bigger and bigger black hole, and almost always put up a shot whenever he had the ball, regardless of how well defended he was. Now, a good many of those went in, but they're still not our best looks.

 

[OttoMets]

I'd like to see TT used more often next year too. We know he can do something when given the ball down low, but there were times he seemed a little over-determined to score when he touched the ball. What would be really great to see out of him, from an offensive development standpoint, is learning when to pass back out to an open shooter. Being able to have a reliable post threat that can draw defenders could open things up for us bit, and facilitate better outside shooting.

Or find an open teammate on the opposite block.

Thompson's a really skilled passer, but we saw almost none of that after conference play started. Hope it comes back.

 

[upperdeck]

TT seemed to do a better job of this earlier in the season - he and Lydon had some nice high-low action working.
As the season progressed, he became a bigger and bigger black hole, and almost always put up a shot whenever he had the ball, regardless of how well defended he was. Now, a good many of those went in, but they're still not our best looks.

at least TT took shots that hit the rim most of the time. unlike our other 2 bigs.

 

[jordoo]

TT's favorite pass was to the rim . . . . . . and he was pretty good at it.

 

[dyedorange]

Or find an open teammate on the opposite block.

Thompson's a really skilled passer, but we saw almost none of that after conference play started. Hope it comes back.

Yeah, he's definitely a capable passer, just didn't do a ton of it. But then again, this year's team needed offense badly, and he was one of the few people that could deliver some points inside the 3 point line, so maybe he was instructed to take more shots.

I'm sensing an imminent 'ahem, Tremont Waters, people' post from an admin, so I'll stop my TT Talk now.

 

[cuseinseattle]

When we lost out on Quade Green -- which was a devastating blow for the staff -- they quickly regrouped and focused upon Ayala as the fall back option [it was too late to try to get back involved with Coleman, Washington, etc.]. This was a creative approach, because it would require Ayala to reclassify [which was no sure thing] and qualify a year earlier than expected.

It seems like we're all in on Ayala. The staff believes that they are in a strongly favorable position to land him. I wish we would have pursued Waters, too, because blue chip point guards don't grow on trees. And I don't think that Ayala is a real point guard -- he's a combo who can handle and pass a bit, and I believe that the staff believes that with Battle being the focal point of the offense, that the ball will be in his hands a lot and the two in tandem will be adequate. Time will tell.

What we really need to have happen is for Howard to take this year as a learning experience and step up. If he does that, Battle makes the jump we all expect, and Ayala is talented enough to play, then we'll have some nice components in the back court to work with.

I agree with what the staff is doing in this case. I would have liked to go after Waters too but I think if we had a 3 had Ayala and Battle with Howard we would be ok next year. Then the year after we could go after a elite PG to play with Ayala as the 2.