Pickup Game - Forth or Chukwu?

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#1
Centers don't get much love on this board.

The job is harder than it looks and the most critical position for a zone defense.

Sure, they look goofy when they can't finish a bunny.
Don't put up many points.
But we can't win without them.

For all the crap Craig and Pascal take here, they were/are good players who play a key role in team success.

That being said
Who would you take in a pickup game?
 

SUFan44

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#6
Come on. This is ridiculous. Forth may have missed a few layups and not been overly athletic, but his defense and screening was tremendous and a big piece of our success. He was also a much better offensive threat than given credit for despite his paltry scoring average. He is light years better than Chukwu
 
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#8
I remember Craig as a solid screener and good at clogging the lane.

He never had all that impressive numbers as a rebounder.
He didn't block shots.
He didn't get to the FT line.
He often sat in favor of McNeil.

Craig was a part of the championship team. But he wasn't all that.
Craig turned the ball over at a much higher rate.
And he did not improve in any facet of the game; at least not statistically.

I would take Chukwu. When he is on, he has a much bigger upside.
He catches the ball.
He makes his FTs.
He doesn't throw the ball away (i.e. make bad outlet passes).
He hustles.
He gets out to the wings.
He understands his role in the zone (most of the time).
He blocks shots.
He is not agile but he moves fairly well for a guy his size.

The point is not that Craig was overated; Chukwu is underappreciated.
 
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721Comstock

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#14
Agree can someone show us the tape of when this alleged catch if the ball occurred?
He had one nice OOOP finish vs Duke in the NCAA's.
Of course, Frank tried going to him again like 5 more times, and none worked, at all -
but that one time it was pretty sweet.
 

kuethstheman

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#16
People were pretty equally down on Forth when he was playing. During his senior year, JB pointed out that everyone on the team appreciated Forth's ability to set good picks. That was the first (only?) positive comment I remember hearing about him (aside from CTO and others pointing out what a great person he was).

I don't know which player was better but Forth wasn't nearly as frustrating as PC is. I don't remember him panicking every time he touched the ball. I'd take him over PC, if only for that reason.
 

Newhouser

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#18
In a pick-up game? PC by a mile. He covers so much ground and is such a better athlete than Forth. Pick up he won't get passed to at all which is rreally how SU should treat him at this point.
 

OttoMets

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#20
Forth. Though I'm surprised to see the difference in field-goal percentage for the two players - I know all Chukwu's shots are within three feet, but my memory says that Forth had the same range...so was he really that inefficient?

Forth was a fine defender and a good dude. But the "he was an excellent screener" compliment always cracks me up, it's like the "he's a great blocker" praise for the wide receiver who can't catch the ball or get open. It's another way of saying 'this kid's really not so good at the game, but he's nice people and we shouldn't crap on him, so here's something he does well.'
 
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#21
I must have missed that one time...
He catches most passes. He often looks lost when he gets it, often bobbles it, but the pass does not sail through his hands out of bounds. Most SU Centers over the last 30+ years couldn't even catch the pass.
 

OrangeDW

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#22
I remember Craig as a solid screener and good at clogging the lane.

He never had all that impressive numbers as a rebounder.
He didn't block shots.
He didn't get to the FT line.
He often sat in favor of McNeil.

Craig was a part of the championship team. But he wasn't all that.
Craig turned the ball over at a much higher rate.
And he did not improve in any facet of the game; at least not statistically.

I would take Chukwu. When he is on, he has a much bigger upside.
He catches the ball.
He makes his FTs.
He doesn't throw the ball away (i.e. make bad outlet passes).
He hustles.
He gets out to the wings.
He understands his role in the zone (most of the time).
He blocks shots.
He is not agile but he moves fairly well for a guy his size.

The point is not that Craig was overated; Chukwu is underappreciated.
Turnovers and FT’s were basically the exact same for both of them, looking at the years that Chukwu got PT.
 
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#23
Turnovers and FT’s were basically the exact same for both of them, looking at the years that Chukwu got PT.
Chukwu committed 40 TO compared to Craigs 39 for a full season.
But Chukwu played over 50% more minutes.

Chukwu is a much better FT shooter. He improved dramatically after a dismal first year.
Craig never improved hovering around 60%..
Chukwu will finish his SU career with more made FT than Craig despite playing fewer seasons.
He is only 25 behind as of now ( 101 vs 76 ).
 

PeteCalvin

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#24
Come on. This is ridiculous. Forth may have missed a few layups and not been overly athletic, but his defense and screening was tremendous and a big piece of our success. He was also a much better offensive threat than given credit for despite his paltry scoring average. He is light years better than Chukwu
We don’t have a trophy in 2003 without Forth. He had his best game of the season in NO on the night we needed every point. He had a key dunk late in the game off a feed from Edelin. Chukwu doesn’t catch that pass or finish that play.
 
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#25
Centers don't get much love on this board.

The job is harder than it looks and the most critical position for a zone defense.

Sure, they look goofy when they can't finish a bunny.
Don't put up many points.
But we can't win without them.

For all the crap Craig and Pascal take here, they were/are good players who play a key role in team success.

That being said
Who would you take in a pickup game?
Forth
 
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