Player's coach

[HRE Otto IV]

I wonder how much this style is part of our problems. I have no issue with it but you also need someone to take the kids to task. We clearly are an undisciplined team. Which isn't all that surprising for a player's coach. It also explains Taj getting away with his antics. Who is providing the stern leadership? Who is holding players accountable?

Dino's first 3 seasons we had on the field leaders (Dungey and Franklin) who held the team in check. So you had accountability, even with a player's coach.

The last 3 years we seem to be rudderless. Who is holding players accountable? Is there a disciplinarian on the staff? When players mess up time and again or commit penalties, who is the bad cop?

I think with Mikel, Shrader, and Tucker we will have the leadership in place for next season. They are developing into the role this season. But the leadership in 2019, 2020, and going into this year was lacking. This is those 3 guy's team now and gives added hope for next season.

 

[JRHEETER]

I wonder how much this style is part of our problems. I have no issue with it but you also need someone to take the kids to task. We clearly are an undisciplined team. Which isn't all that surprising for a player's coach. It also explains Taj getting away with his antics. Who is providing the stern leadership? Who is holding players accountable?

Dino's first 3 seasons we had on the field leaders (Dungey and Franklin) who held the team in check. So you had accountability, even with a player's coach.

The last 3 years we seem to be rudderless. Who is holding players accountable? Is there a disciplinarian on the staff? When players mess up time and again or commit penalties, who is the bad cop?

I think with Mikel, Shrader, and Tucker we will have the leadership in place for next season. They are developing into the role this season. But the leadership in 2019, 2020, and going into this year was lacking. This is those 3 guy's team now and gives added hope for next season.

Can we just pick all season captains and have it be those three already? Shooooot

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I would imagine the 5th and 6th year seniors provide some leadership no? Kinglsey?

Leadership doesn't always mean more wins either

 

[syrBossHogg]

We had penalty problems in 2016-18 too, clearly it's not a emphasis by Dino.

 

[RF2044]

I don't think it is a problem -- at all.

But no leaders are good at everything. They all have different styles, and not every style is going to cover everything or resonate with everyone.

So recognizing that, leaders have to surround themselves with people who can help fill in the gaps, or who compensate for an area that the leader isn't strong. A leader who is a visionary and / or an inspirational leader might need help with operations [or in football, the X's and the O's]. So it is up to the leader to surround himself with the right supplementary talent.

Dino looks like he did that on the defensive side of the ball, with White. Not sure about Gilbert, and not sure about things running smoothly operationally, given the miscues we've seen unfold all year.

 

[TheCusian]

I wonder how much this style is part of our problems. I have no issue with it but you also need someone to take the kids to task. We clearly are an undisciplined team. Which isn't all that surprising for a player's coach. It also explains Taj getting away with his antics. Who is providing the stern leadership? Who is holding players accountable?

Dino's first 3 seasons we had on the field leaders (Dungey and Franklin) who held the team in check. So you had accountability, even with a player's coach.

The last 3 years we seem to be rudderless. Who is holding players accountable? Is there a disciplinarian on the staff? When players mess up time and again or commit penalties, who is the bad cop?

I think with Mikel, Shrader, and Tucker we will have the leadership in place for next season. They are developing into the role this season. But the leadership in 2019, 2020, and going into this year was lacking. This is those 3 guy's team now and gives added hope for next season.

We’re entering a lot one where HC that are old school, tyrant types will be flushed out of the game. The portal, NIL will make them obsolete. See the former TCU HC.

Don’t mistake Dino’s player coach identity as a lack of accountability or leadership, either.

Honestly, I think this topic is one born of outside perception and just what gets dredged up when you lose.

 

[SUDadx2]

The last 3 years we seem to be rudderless. Who is holding players accountable? Is there a disciplinarian on the staff? When players mess up time and again or commit penalties, who is the bad cop?

We had penalty problems in 2016-18 too, clearly it's not a emphasis by Dino.

I keep seeing posts implying that penalties are major problem for this team. I didn’t think that was the case so I looked it up. Keep in mind, the only thing worse than the officiating in the ACC is the in game television announcers.


We are averaging 5.6 penalties per game. This is down from 7.1 last season. This ranks 41st in the country. One fewer a game (4.6) and Syracuse would be in the top ten in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

We are averaging 42.4 penalty yards per game. This ranks 21st in the country. Last season we averaged 67.3 yards per game which ranked 105th in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalty Yards per Game | TeamRankings.com

Year	Pen/Gm	Rank	Pen Yds/Gm	Rank	Opp 1st Downs by Pen	Rank
2021	5.6​	41​	42.2​	21​	1.2​	16​
2020	7.1​	103​	67.3​	105​	1.1​	11​
2019	9.1​	129​	73.9​	126​	2.2​	106​

According to the statistics that are available out there, it looks like Syracuse isn't as undisciplined or out as control as some here would have you believe.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I keep seeing posts implying that penalties are major problem for this team. I didn’t think that was the case so I looked it up. Keep in mind, the only thing worse than the officiating in the ACC is the in game television announcers.


We are averaging 5.6 penalties per game. This is down from 7.1 last season. This ranks 41st in the country. One fewer a game (4.6) and Syracuse would be in the top ten in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

We are averaging 42.4 penalty yards per game. This ranks 21st in the country. Last season we averaged 67.3 yards per game which ranked 105th in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalty Yards per Game | TeamRankings.com

Year	Pen/Gm	Rank	Pen Yds/Gm	Rank	Opp 1st Downs by Pen	Rank
2021	​ 5.6​	41​	​ 42.2​	21​	​ 1.2​	16​
2020	​ 7.1​	103​	​ 67.3​	105​	​ 1.1​	11​
2019	​ 9.1​	129​	​ 73.9​	126​	​ 2.2​	106​

According to the statistics that are available out there, it looks like Syracuse isn't as undisciplined or out as control as some here would have you believe.

It's gotten better this year but it's still middle of the pack. With the talent level we have, needed to play more disciplined

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I keep seeing posts implying that penalties are major problem for this team. I didn’t think that was the case so I looked it up. Keep in mind, the only thing worse than the officiating in the ACC is the in game television announcers.


We are averaging 5.6 penalties per game. This is down from 7.1 last season. This ranks 41st in the country. One fewer a game (4.6) and Syracuse would be in the top ten in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

We are averaging 42.4 penalty yards per game. This ranks 21st in the country. Last season we averaged 67.3 yards per game which ranked 105th in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalty Yards per Game | TeamRankings.com

Year	Pen/Gm	Rank	Pen Yds/Gm	Rank	Opp 1st Downs by Pen	Rank
2021	​ 5.6​	41​	​ 42.2​	21​	​ 1.2​	16​
2020	​ 7.1​	103​	​ 67.3​	105​	​ 1.1​	11​
2019	​ 9.1​	129​	​ 73.9​	126​	​ 2.2​	106​

According to the statistics that are available out there, it looks like Syracuse isn't as undisciplined or out as control as some here would have you believe.

Overall we have cleaned things up a lot this year. Per game our best finish from 2016-19 was 12th in ACC play. Currently we are tied for 3rd in ACC play. That is a huge improvement and kudos to the staff for finally fixing the issue, so it seems.

 

[SUDadx2]

We had penalty problems in 2016-18 too, clearly it's not a emphasis by Dino.

It's gotten better this year but it's still middle of the pack. With the talent level we have, needed to play more disciplined

Steady improvement would indicate Coach Babers and his staff do care about penalties.


Since when is being ranked 41st (one less penalty a game and we would be ranked 11th) in the number of penalties per game, 21st in penalty yards per game and 16th in opponents first down due to penalty out of 130 teams considered middle of the pack?


Where does this undisciplined, out of control team stand in the conference with penalties?

2021 ACC	Pen/Gm		Team	Pen Yds/Gm		Team	Opp 1st Downs by Pen
Va Tech	5.1		Syracuse	42.4		Syracuse	1.2
Syracuse	5.6		Va Tech	43.1		Duke	1.7
FSU	5.6		FSU	47.4		BC	1.7
BC	5.6		BC	48.7		Va Tech	1.7
Wake	5.9		Clemson	54.1		NC St	1.8
Ga Tech	6.4		Wake	54.3		L'ville	1.9
Duke	6.6		Ga Tech	55.6		Virginia	2.1
Clemson	6.7		Virginia	58.8		FSU	2.2
L'ville	6.8		Duke	61.6		Pitt	2.2
Virginia	6.8		L'ville	62.4		Ga Tech	2.3
Pitt	7.1		NC St	66.3		Clemson	2.6
NC St	7.3		Pitt	68.6		UNC	2.6
UNC	8.1		Miami	72		Wake	3.4
Miami	8.2		UNC	77		Miami	3.6

 

[syrBossHogg]

Steady improvement would indicate Coach Babers and his staff do care about penalties.


Since when is being ranked 41st (one less penalty a game and we would be ranked 11th) in the number of penalties per game, 21st in penalty yards per game and 16th in opponents first down due to penalty out of 130 teams considered middle of the pack?


Where does this undisciplined, out of control team stand in the conference with penalties?

2021 ACC	Pen/Gm		Team	Pen Yds/Gm		Team	Opp 1st Downs by Pen
Va Tech	5.1		Syracuse	42.4		Syracuse	1.2
Syracuse	5.6		Va Tech	43.1		Duke	1.7
FSU	5.6		FSU	47.4		BC	1.7
BC	5.6		BC	48.7		Va Tech	1.7
Wake	5.9		Clemson	54.1		NC St	1.8
Ga Tech	6.4		Wake	54.3		L'ville	1.9
Duke	6.6		Ga Tech	55.6		Virginia	2.1
Clemson	6.7		Virginia	58.8		FSU	2.2
L'ville	6.8		Duke	61.6		Pitt	2.2
Virginia	6.8		L'ville	62.4		Ga Tech	2.3
Pitt	7.1		NC St	66.3		Clemson	2.6
NC St	7.3		Pitt	68.6		UNC	2.6
UNC	8.1		Miami	72		Wake	3.4
Miami	8.2		UNC	77		Miami	3.6

I care more about how that compares to just the P5 and there's still two games left against two tough ACC teams. Also, there's no mention of how many penalties were declined cause the actual play was a better result.

 

[Newhouser]

Players coach seems like a vague term for fans who really have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Guys who seem likeable in the media often get dubbed players coaches, but a guy who may be a players coach for Player A may not fit the same definition for Player B.

 

[GeauxSU]

Just came across this…

Can he play in the secondary?

 

[rrlbees]

It's gotten better this year but it's still middle of the pack. With the talent level we have, needed to play more disciplined

41st and 21st of 130 teams and being at the top of the ACC isn’t middle of the pack.

 

[RandomGuy]

I keep seeing posts implying that penalties are major problem for this team. I didn’t think that was the case so I looked it up. Keep in mind, the only thing worse than the officiating in the ACC is the in game television announcers.


We are averaging 5.6 penalties per game. This is down from 7.1 last season. This ranks 41st in the country. One fewer a game (4.6) and Syracuse would be in the top ten in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

We are averaging 42.4 penalty yards per game. This ranks 21st in the country. Last season we averaged 67.3 yards per game which ranked 105th in the country.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalty Yards per Game | TeamRankings.com

Year	Pen/Gm	Rank	Pen Yds/Gm	Rank	Opp 1st Downs by Pen	Rank
2021	5.6​	41​	42.2​	21​	1.2​	16​
2020	7.1​	103​	67.3​	105​	1.1​	11​
2019	9.1​	129​	73.9​	126​	2.2​	106​

According to the statistics that are available out there, it looks like Syracuse isn't as undisciplined or out as control as some here would have you believe.

We had 16 Against Albany. 163 yards. That stuff is hard to forget. Over the past few years, it always seems like we get the penalties at the WORST times. Not that there is a good time. Its like we FINALLY have a good play... whoops. Penalty. We MUST get a 1st down, or stop. Whoops. Penalty. They're all painful, but we have a knack for making them hurt worse.

 

[SUDadx2]

We had 16 Against Albany. 163 yards. That stuff is hard to forget. Over the past few years, it always seems like we get the penalties at the WORST times. Not that there is a good time. Its like we FINALLY have a good play... whoops. Penalty. We MUST get a 1st down, or stop. Whoops. Penalty. They're all painful, but we have a knack for making them hurt worse.

Penalties always hurt. I'm sure every fan feels like the penalties against their team comes at the worst time. It certainly felt that way at both the Rutgers game and the Albany game. But, as you said, there isn't a good time for a penalty.

But, I think the data shows 1) this team is not undisciplined or out of control, and 2) the coaches do emphasize the need to reduce penalties.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We had penalty problems in 2016-18 too, clearly it's not a emphasis by Dino.

You are right clearly Dino doesn't care about penalties!!!

41st and 21st of 130 teams and being at the top of the ACC isn’t middle of the pack.

It's just another thing fans always bitch about without really looking into much. Penalties, play calling, clock management, scheme!!!! Few others as well.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You are right clearly Dino doesn't care about penalties!!!




It's just another thing fans always bitch about without really looking into much. Penalties, play calling, clock management, scheme!!!! Few others as well.

So this is ok?

Penalties per game:

2016 123rd out of 128
2017 72nd out of 130
2018 102nd out of 130
2019 128th out of 130
2020 97th out of 127
2021 74th out of 130

 

[David332]

So this is ok?

Penalties per game:

2016 123rd out of 128
2017 72nd out of 130
2018 102nd out of 130
2019 128th out of 130
2020 97th out of 127
2021 74th out of 130

Whoa! Never realized it was this bad during his entire tenure. You make a strong argument.

 

[qdawgg]

We’re entering a lot one where HC that are old school, tyrant types will be flushed out of the game. The portal, NIL will make them obsolete. See the former TCU HC.

Don’t mistake Dino’s player coach identity as a lack of accountability or leadership, either.

Honestly, I think this topic is one born of outside perception and just what gets dredged up when you lose.

That’s weird b/c Saban seems to do ok

 

[CbusCuse]

I'm sure the pace at which we play is part of the additional penalties we have seen in Dino's tenure. Both because of additional snap counts and also just the pace in general. I'd also be curious to know what the number of penalties against us were but don't they have that stat available. Although I wouldn't think us moving at a faster pace would effect the defensive penalties as much.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I'm sure the pace at which we play is part of the additional penalties we have seen in Dino's tenure. Both because of additional snap counts and also just the pace in general. I'd also be curious to know what the number of penalties against us were but don't they have that stat available. Although I wouldn't think us moving at a faster pace would effect the defensive penalties as much.

I am sure it didn't help in years 1-3 but we have been slow years 4-6.

Also, Wake goes as fast as anyone but the last 6 years they have ranked:

2016 14th
2017 39th
2018 6th
2019 8th
2020 34th
2021 49th

O plays
2021 Wake 762 SU 670
2020 Wake 690 (2 less games) SU 656
2019 Wake 1055 (1 more game) SU 909
2018 Wake 1067 SU 1063
2017 Wake 963 (1 more game) SU 1027
2016 Wake 886 (1 more game) SU 971

Kinda crazy how fast we went in 2017 with 85.6 plays per game. We are at 67 per game this year.

D plays
2021 Wake 739 SU 650
2020 Wake 663 (2 less games) SU 877
2019 Wake 936 (1 more game) 918
2018 Wake 1015 SU 951
2017 Wake 1069 (1 more game) SU 832
2016 Wake 903 (1 more game) SU 870

They have faced a lot more plays per game in 2021. They had a lot more O but a lot less D plays per game in 2020. In 2018 and 2019 they faced a lot more plays. 2017 they had less on O but a lot more on D. In 2016 SU had more plays.

We cannot overcome penalties. We need to be more like Wake and less like 80s U.

 

[SUDadx2]

So this is ok?

Penalties per game:

2016 123rd out of 128
2017 72nd out of 130
2018 102nd out of 130
2019 128th out of 130
2020 97th out of 127
2021 74th out of 130

What source are you using? I'm curious why there appears to be such a discrepancy between the sources.

According to www.teamranking.com, as of today, Syracuse is ranked 43rd with 5.6 penalties per game. We dropped two places after the games last night.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football penalties per game, by team.

www.teamrankings.com

I only went back three years in my previous post because, quite frankly, I don't care about 2016, 2017, or 2018 nor do those years show that this team is disciplined or undisciplined.

My previous posts with data from www.teamranking.com clearly showed this team is not undisciplined.

We clearly are an undisciplined team.

Your original post in this thread claimed "we clearly are an undisciplined team."

Other than penalties can you share why you think this team is undisciplined?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

What source are you using? I'm curious why there appears to be such a discrepancy between the sources.

According to www.teamranking.com, as of today, Syracuse is ranked 43rd with 5.6 penalties per game. We dropped two places after the games last night.

College Football Stats - College FB Team Penalties per Game | TeamRankings.com

College Football penalties per game, by team.

www.teamrankings.com

I only went back three years in my previous post because, quite frankly, I don't care about 2016, 2017, or 2018 nor do those years show that this team is disciplined or undisciplined.

My previous posts with data from www.teamranking.com clearly showed this team is not undisciplined.



Your original post in this thread claimed "we clearly are an undisciplined team."

Other than penalties can you share why you think this team is undisciplined?

Any free source will give you the info and we are at 6.5 per game. If you take away the Albany game we are at 5.4 per game which is still not the same as your pay site. Unless your site is only using ACC games and not national, you might want to get your money back.

 

[SUDadx2]

Any free source will give you the info and we are at 6.5 per game. If you take away the Albany game we are at 5.4 per game which is still not the same as your pay site. Unless your site is only using ACC games and not national, you might want to get your money back.

View attachment 210743

View attachment 210741

I didn't pay anything. But thanks for sharing. I'll look at this.