Polls (3/20/23): Media NR / Coaches NR | Syracusefan.com

Polls (3/20/23): Media NR / Coaches NR

OrangeXtreme

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The Irish are No. 1.

Notre Dame, the lone undefeated men’s DI team, jumps into the top spot of the Inside Lacrosse Media Poll after Maryland took down Virginia in overtime Saturday. The Irish beat the Terps, 13-12 in OT, earlier in March. Maryland is up to No. 2, where the defending champions started in the preseason.


Notre Dame and Virginia meet this weekend. If this year’s results among those top three teams are any indication, expect overtime in South Bend. Virginia had been No. 1 since preseason.

Duke took care of business vs. rival North Carolina and is in the 4 spot, and Cornell inched back up into the Top 5 after its decisive win vs. Yale combined with Penn State’s loss. The Nittany Lions dropped to 10.

Denver is the lone team to re-enter the Top 20 after they beat Ohio State on Sunday. The Buckeyes (4-4) and Princeton (2-4) are hanging in at the end of the poll in danger of falling out.

Other notable moves include:

Yale fell to No. 12 from 8 after the Cornell loss. Army is up to 13. The Black Knights keep systematically moving up after a 6-1 start to the season. On Saturday, they beat Lehigh. Villanova (7) and Johns Hopkins (8) both moved up two spots. The Wildcats had a quiet win vs. Monmouth, while the Jays beat Delaware on Sunday night.

IL Media Poll — Week 6
1. Notre Dame (23)
2. Maryland
3. Virginia
4. Duke
5. Cornell

Check out the full men’s DI Media Poll here.

FrrjeykWYAkXiwk
 
Princeton 2-4 ranked in the IL poll lol
Penn 3-3
St joes 4-3
GTown 3-3
Ohio State 4-4
 
I think I'm the only reason Cuse is still getting votes as I assume I'm one of the few if not the only guy left putting them in at 20, but I did so for the exact reason mentioned above, No way that Princeton at 2-4 should be in the poll at this stage. Their wins are over Monmouth and Manhattan. Yes, their 4 losses are to ranked teams, but I think if you've only beat 2 teams and they are both mediocre to poor, you don't get to be ranked again until you beat a Yale, Brown or Syracuse. Ala everyone knowing that Gtown would likely finished the season ranked but after starting out 0-3 they had to be removed until they got a win or two under their belts.

Oddly enough, I think Princeton has a good shot at beating Syracuse as the Orange have proven that they are susceptible to being "beat by experience". Young teams have a hard time with experienced teams, especially if talent is even.

But to a degree you gotta say, these team are all at or closer to .500 so even if the "teams they beat aren't much better", the losses, especially 4 straight losses has to count for something.

BUT AGAIN, it's America. Everyone has a different reason for putting Princeton at 20 (or not). My reason for not is that I think 4 losses in a row bumps them even if I think they would probably beat all of the teams that are right behind them.
 
Princeton 2-4 ranked in the IL poll lol
Penn 3-3
St joes 4-3
GTown 3-3
Ohio State 4-4

There really aren't enough teams out there to justify having them in the Top 20.
I can make a cse for G-town but the other four is absurd. Penn and Princeton especially look absurd.
 
I think I'm the only reason Cuse is still getting votes as I assume I'm one of the few if not the only guy left putting them in at 20, but I did so for the exact reason mentioned above, No way that Princeton at 2-4 should be in the poll at this stage. Their wins are over Monmouth and Manhattan. Yes, their 4 losses are to ranked teams, but I think if you've only beat 2 teams and they are both mediocre to poor, you don't get to be ranked again until you beat a Yale, Brown or Syracuse.
princeton being ranked is silly but by this logic you shouldnt rank syracuse either. what's their best win? the almighty vermont? there are lots of teams with good wins who are more deserving of that 20 spot: marquette (4-3, beat penn state and michigan), umass (4-3, beat army), air force (5-2, beat denver), drexel (4-3, beat st.joe's), michigan (4-3, beat delaware and harvard). all have better records and a better win than syracuse.
 
Given that Syracuse's worst loss is to #14 UNC, and that their 3 losses to top 10 teams were not blow outs, it seems reasonable to have Syracuse in the top 20.
who have they beaten? giving credit for losses is the same logic that's keeping princeton in the top 20
 
There really aren't enough teams out there to justify having them in the Top 20.
I can make a cse for G-town but the other four is absurd. Penn and Princeton especially look absurd.

Exactly. It's fun exercise right now. Syracuse is capable of beating half those teams.

I do like seeing so much parity though. Even the the top teams with 1 loss have had scraps.

Loyola checks in at #9 with a 5-2 record and squeaked out a 1 goal win over Bucknell this weekend.

Rutgers 7-1 ...best win is over who Loyola ?
 
Exactly. It's fun exercise right now. Syracuse is capable of beating half those teams.

I do like seeing so much parity though. Even the the top teams with 1 loss have had scraps. Loyola checks in at #9 with a 5-2 record and squeaked out a 1 goal win over Bucknell this weekend.

Ya its an odd year for sure, I am seeing a lot of teams with quality wins that look like smoke and mirrors. Loyola has a great win over Maryland and then a nice win over Hop but have looked brutal the last month. Hard to watch that team now and think they're a top 10 team.

I also think the jury is still out on a lot of teams ie Rutty, Army, everyone not named Cornell in the IVY, half the B10 (Not Maryland or PSU) etc. I find the whole round robin of Army, Rutty and Umass fascinating. Each has a win over the other but honestly not sure any of them are above average teams. Army is 6-1 but has esentially played Rutgers and a bunch of nothing besides a mediocre Umass team they lost to in week 1. They do play Cornell on 4/15/2023 which will be telling.

Umass at 4-3 with a win over Army seems decent but has been blown out by Yale, Boston U and scored 5 goals against Rutgers in a 11-5 loss this weekend. They did beat Army and Vermont but I don't see much there.

Rutty is the best of the 3 teams for sure but it's hard to get a true read on them with their OOC. Their only loss is to Army which is solid but their wins against Loyola and Princeton aren't as impressive as they would be in other years. Princeton is a mess and Loyola looks nothing like the team that beat Maryland or Hop. Next two games against OSU and Hop will be fascinating to see.

I also love the Rutty board and the comments that SU ended the series to play them OOC and somehow SU was afraid because they have started winning. Good to see the delusion follows from sport to sport over there.
 
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Ya its an odd year for sure, I am seeing a lot of teams with quality wins that look like smoke and mirrors. Loyola has a great win over Maryland and then a nice win over Loyola but have looked brutal the last month. Hard to watch that team now and think there a top 10 team.

I also think the jury is still out on a lot of teams ie Rutty, Army, everyone not named Cornell in the IVY, half the B10 (Not Maryland or PSU) etc. I find the whole round robin of Army, Rutty and Umass fascinating. Each has a win over the other but honestly not sure any of them are above average teams. Army is 6-1 but has esentially played Rutgers and a bunch of nothing besides a mediocre Umass team they lost to in week 1. They do play Cornell on 4/15/2023 which will be telling.

Umass at 4-3 with a win over Army seems decent but has been blown out by Yale, Boston U and scored 5 goals against Rutgers in a 11-5 loss this weekend. They did beat Army and Vermont but I don't see much there.

Rutty is the best of the 3 teams for sure but it's hard to get a true read on them with their OOC. Their only loss is to Army which is solid but their wins against Loyola and Princeton aren't as impressive as they would be in other years. Princeton is a mess and Loyola looks nothing like the team that beat Maryland or Hop. Next two games against OSU and Hop will be fascinating to see.

I also love the Rutty board and the comments that SU ended the series to play them OOC and somehow SU was afraid because they have started winning. Good to see the delusion follows from sport to sport over there.

It's why I can get to up or down on Syracuse right now. Syracuse with a similar schedule would be 7-1 as well.

Syracuse has to win the 3 they should and then steal 1 of the power 4 and I think we're in. Take the 3 and win 2 and we're a lock.
 
It's why I can get to up or down on Syracuse right now. Syracuse with a similar schedule would be 7-1 as well.

Syracuse has to win the 3 they should and then steal 1 of the power 4 and I think we're in. Take the 3 and win 2 and we're a lock.

Syracuse has been close but right now I think being outside the top 20 is correct. Just do't have the wins. However, most of it has to be do with where you start the year off. Penn being a Top 10 team in the pre-season is why they are still ranked. SU not being able to close out the Duke game and essentially giving away the Hop one is a bad look but they have 4 games left to get some quality wins.

I am very interested to see how SU plays Sat vs Hobart and at Princeton. Both games SU "should win" but so far under Gait have been far from locks.
 
You know what is crazy is that with all these dubs that Hop is racking up, the only team they have beat who beat a ranked team is Jacksonville in their first game of the season, who went on to beat Duke in their second game. That is unless you count GTown beating princeton who is clinging onto the top 20. Delaware's best win is UMBC who just lost to Bryant, St Joes best win is...Providence? Navy's best win is Hofstra, Cuse UVM, Utah's best win is Marquette but they also have 4 losses and Marquette has a Bellarmine loss under their belt.

Nobody would question Hops place in the top 10. I don't either at this point as the D/face off is rock solid and they clearly have the ability to close out wins, but the "gauntlet" schedule has proven to be not as "gauntlety" as it appeared on paper at the start of the season. Mainly could be blamed on St Joes and GTown not living up to the hype this year. Hop is somehow one Febuary Duke performance away from not having a win that is considered "quality" despite the start with their schedule.

Rutgers gets their biggest boost from that Loyola game, but Loyola has looked so darn mid down the stretch that it feels like a lame reason to rank them highly. That MD win is a 1 way ticket to an RPI boost for anyone that plays them, but they may lose enough down the stretch where it matters a lot less. Rutgers did at least take care of Princeton at home. We could not do the same against Hop or we would be top 20.

Weird year in the pols. Penn State and Loyola have some major wins, but don't think they have the overall talent to back it up in the second half of the season. Princeton, Gtown, and struggles for the Ivey league in general, have changed the RPI landscape from what many expected. Now there are less opportunities for those teams to turn it around as conference play begins.
 
You know what is crazy is that with all these dubs that Hop is racking up, the only team they have beat who beat a ranked team is Jacksonville in their first game of the season, who went on to beat Duke in their second game. That is unless you count GTown beating princeton who is clinging onto the top 20. Delaware's best win is UMBC who just lost to Bryant, St Joes best win is...Providence? Navy's best win is Hofstra, Cuse UVM, Utah's best win is Marquette but they also have 4 losses and Marquette has a Bellarmine loss under their belt.

Nobody would question Hops place in the top 10. I don't either at this point as the D/face off is rock solid and they clearly have the ability to close out wins, but the "gauntlet" schedule has proven to be not as "gauntlety" as it appeared on paper at the start of the season. Mainly could be blamed on St Joes and GTown not living up to the hype this year. Hop is somehow one Febuary Duke performance away from not having a win that is considered "quality" despite the start with their schedule.

Rutgers gets their biggest boost from that Loyola game, but Loyola has looked so darn mid down the stretch that it feels like a lame reason to rank them highly. That MD win is a 1 way ticket to an RPI boost for anyone that plays them, but they may lose enough down the stretch where it matters a lot less. Rutgers did at least take care of Princeton at home. We could not do the same against Hop or we would be top 20.

Weird year in the pols. Penn State and Loyola have some major wins, but don't think they have the overall talent to back it up in the second half of the season. Princeton, Gtown, and struggles for the Ivey league in general, have changed the RPI landscape from what many expected. Now there are less opportunities for those teamd to turn it around as conference play begins.

I think its clear its Maryland, UVA ND at the top and then a pretty good drop to Duke and Cornell and then a very large drop to Nova, Rutty, Hop, UNC etc.

Hopkins this year reminds me of some of the late Desko teams that was solid in most facets and closed out a lot of close games. Like those squads both had pretty godo midfields with decent attacks that lack an elite level dodger. If Hop can keep their main FOGO healthy (way easier said then done) they can cause some trouble as they can win a majority of faceoffs and try to grind teams down with their D and midfield. As you saw in the UVA game though, they clearly get outclassed against top level teams, hard to see them beating a ND, Maryland, or UVA at this point.

I think Rutty is solid but they don't have the defense or O depth against a ND, UVA, or Maryland. A team with a few good poles with give them a lot of trouble as they are very attack oriented.
 
This is not really related to anything, and I will always love Galloway, but how LAME is the out of conference schedule for Jacksonville outside of Hop and Duke?? They are in a stupid easy conference and they chose to add on UMass Lowell, St. John's, and Marist, just about the only cupcakes that are so bad that they could be in the ASUN conference. Will give a pass for adding High Point but they have been pretty garbage recently too. Almost makes you wish Duke would just figure it out and eliminate them from relevance in the pols by just beating them in February. So lame to see them sitting at 11 in the pols with that garbage schedule. Should be playing tough teams EVERY WEEK until conference play if you want to be taken seriously in the beyond pathetic ASUN conference. They will probably win out and get into the top 10, but literally every team they play going forward is trash.
 
This is not really related to anything, and I will always love Galloway, but how LAME is the out of conference schedule for Jacksonville outside of Hop and Duke?? They are in a stupid easy conference and they chose to add on UMass Lowell, St. John's, and Marist, just about the only cupcakes that are so bad that they could be in the ASUN conference. Will give a pass for adding High Point but they have been pretty garbage recently too. Almost makes you wish Duke would just figure it out and eliminate them from relevance in the pols by just beating them in February. So lame to see them sitting at 11 in the pols with that garbage schedule. Should be playing tough teams EVERY WEEK until conference play if you want to be taken seriously in the beyond pathetic ASUN conference. They will probably win out and get into the top 10, but literally every team they play going forward is trash.
I don't know for sure but it could be that he has tried to schedule up out of conference and teams won't play them. Give Hop and Duke credit for playing them considering that they can easily lose the game.
 
This is not really related to anything, and I will always love Galloway, but how LAME is the out of conference schedule for Jacksonville outside of Hop and Duke?? They are in a stupid easy conference and they chose to add on UMass Lowell, St. John's, and Marist, just about the only cupcakes that are so bad that they could be in the ASUN conference. Will give a pass for adding High Point but they have been pretty garbage recently too. Almost makes you wish Duke would just figure it out and eliminate them from relevance in the pols by just beating them in February. So lame to see them sitting at 11 in the pols with that garbage schedule. Should be playing tough teams EVERY WEEK until conference play if you want to be taken seriously in the beyond pathetic ASUN conference. They will probably win out and get into the top 10, but literally every team they play going forward is trash.

Ya Duke and Loyola are two really good OOC opponents but if your Jax you need another upper level team or a few mid and Power teams mixed in like Nova and Penn State or Army and Denver etc. Like last year if they don't win the conf tourney they will probably be out. The next 8 games are pretty much an abomination save for Air Force and Utah and their not exactly murders row.
 
I don't know for sure but it could be that he has tried to schedule up out of conference and teams won't play them. Give Hop and Duke credit for playing them considering that they can easily lose the game.
It could be the case with some teams, but there simply has to be a higher quality option than St. Johns, Marist, and UMass Lowell. Those are confirmed victories for any serious team. They are currently 2-19 on the year and were equally abysmal the two previous years. There are several options out there, and when you schedule three OOC teams like that it seems like an intentional move.
 
Who has Princeton beaten?
are you ok? read what i wrote. i said ranking princeton is silly. NEITHER princeton nor syracuse should be ranked
 
are you ok? read what i wrote. i said ranking princeton is silly. NEITHER princeton nor syracuse should be ranked
Who are you putting at #20?
 
Ya Duke and Loyola are two really good OOC opponents but if your Jax you need another upper level team or a few mid and Power teams mixed in like Nova and Penn State or Army and Denver etc. Like last year if they don't win the conf tourney they will probably be out. The next 8 games are pretty much an abomination save for Air Force and Utah and their not exactly murders row.
Even if they win out and win their conference tourney, they will have completely forgotten what it is like to play a good team come tourney time. The competition jump upon entering the tourney will be insane. Good luck beating MD UVA or ND after playing Lindonwoods and Detriot Mercys for months.
 
We are just at the point where teams have play 7-8 games. That is not a lot of data, particularly if you just go by wins and losses. Some teams that we are considering near the top have very few games against other top teams (Army, Rutgers, ...).
We actually have more data than just wins and losses, that is, how much teams won or lost by. Syracuse is very good in this qualitative measure, having played the 3 of the 4 top teams it has lost too fairly closely, and beating 3 of the 4 weak teams it played by large margins.

When one goes fully into this goal margin idea, one gets into a power ranking situation, looking at the power rankings:
not surprisingly Syracuse does fairly well at #16 currently. Power rankings like this have their flaws and one does not totally want to go by them, but they can show things also.
 

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