Positives vs the Negatives (Babers Era)

[Trueblue25]

Is help on the way or are we scared that if Dino doesn’t work Syracuse may not recover?

3 of 4 losing seasons.
Multiple terrible losses.
Year 5 and the QB/OL groups look as they do.
At times, a noticeably indiscipline product on the field.
Highly questionable in game coaching bordering embarrassing.

vs.

Returned us to the top 25.
Reengaging alumni to the program.
A potentially great 2021 class despite an awful 2019 season.
In one year added over 10,000 new season ticket holders (though likely gone for a variety of reasons).
Has JW’s confidence.
Likely gets a Syracuse face in the first two days of the 2021 draft.

I’m probably missing points on both sides but is this going to get better? I think it is.

 

[Newhouser]

I am not concerned that if Dino moves on or is moved on that we will never recover. Bad programs get rebuilt all the time.

As for my thoughts on will this get better - still undecided.

 

[SuFTW]

The counterpoint to the terrible losses is a few great wins.

 

[jgeorge322]

Is help on the way or are we scared that if Dino doesn’t work Syracuse may not recover?

3 of 4 losing seasons.
Multiple terrible losses.
Year 5 and the QB/OL groups look as they do.
At times, a noticeably indiscipline product on the field.
Highly questionable in game coaching bordering embarrassing.

vs.

Returned us to the top 25.
Reengaging alumni to the program.
A potentially great 2021 class despite an awful 2019 season.
In one year added over 10,000 new season ticket holders (though likely gone for a variety of reasons).
Has JW’s confidence.
Likely gets a Syracuse face in the first two days of the 2021 draft.

I’m probably missing points on both sides but is this going to get better? I think it is.

we went 5-7 in 2019; thats not awful based on our recent history, and we improved throughout the year.

the comment on his in game coaching is overstated.

i am not seeing the same level of horrific losses that we saw under the shafer and grob regimes

the ol group is unfortunate

 

[Alsacs]

I love Dino but this offense is so bad it’s on him.
He hasn’t gotten enough QBs into this program.
We all loved DeVito. I laid off him last year because the OL was terrible.
No excuses this year for how the QB play has been.
The OL hasn’t been great but it’s not why the offense has been this bad.

Dino finally has OL prospects in the pipes to
be part of the solution.
Our QB play has to get a lot better.
A lot.

We are already mocked by Herbstreit on the national level it can’t get any worse.

 

[cuse10]

If it doesn't work out, Syracuse is further behind the 8 ball than before he started. The reputation has been that SU is a difficult school to recruit. He'll have proved it right again. SU isn't in a position to hire and fire, but if there isn't a bowl game in 2021, what do you do?

Positives:

1. The University actually invested in the football program. This was something they weren't willing to do under Marrone.
2. Donations and big gifts have increased.
3. A likeable face to the program. Even with the poor records in 3/4 years, he is someone that people like. A trait that people don't understand the importance of.
4. Despite having losing records his first two years, it looked like progress was being made and it was a matter of when they would turn the corner (2018).

Negatives:

1. The ACC still proves to be difficult to recruit, most notably where it counts; the offensive line. It's a unit that makes or breaks a coach in college football. Can't buy your way to a good line without risking NCAA violations.
2. Losing records in three of four seasons.
3. Loyal to a fault. Only made changes with his staff when he was forced to.
4. There are times where it looks like he's being lapped by the other coach. I don't know if he refuses to make adjustments in real-time or can't because of the personnel he has which goes back to point 1.

 

[cuse10]

I love Dino but this offense is so bad it’s on him.
He hasn’t gotten enough QBs into this program.
We all loved DeVito. I laid off him last year because the OL was terrible.
No excuses this year for how the QB play has been.
The OL hasn’t been great but it’s not why the offense has been this bad.

Dino finally has OL prospects in the pipes to
be part of the solution.
Our QB play has to get a lot better.
A lot.

We are already mocked by Herbstreit on the national level it can’t get any worse.

Yes it is. They can't run either. If they were able to win those battles, you would be able to pin all of the problems on him.

 

[sufandu]

Is help on the way or are we scared that if Dino doesn’t work Syracuse may not recover?

3 of 4 losing seasons.
Multiple terrible losses.
Year 5 and the QB/OL groups look as they do.
At times, a noticeably indiscipline product on the field.
Highly questionable in game coaching bordering embarrassing.

vs.

Returned us to the top 25.
Reengaging alumni to the program.
A potentially great 2021 class despite an awful 2019 season.
In one year added over 10,000 new season ticket holders (though likely gone for a variety of reasons).
Has JW’s confidence.
Likely gets a Syracuse face in the first two days of the 2021 draft.

I’m probably missing points on both sides but is this going to get better? I think it is.

I think so too. It's clear he sees problems and addresses them. It may not be on the time table the fans want, but they get addressed. We saw that with the defense after last year. I think he'll do that with qb and the oline. The oline has clearly been an emphasis in this recruiting class. Missing on qb can linger for a program unless you're bringing them in comsistently. Surprisingly, that has been a negative so far in Dino's tenure. Hopefully that's where Gilbert can help. Does anyone know his recruiting track record?

As frustrated as I am, I'm not ready to move on from Dino. There was a thread that somebody posted about how long it took Cutcliffe to get things going at Duke and think of other guys that took a while to get rolling like Beamer and even Mac. I think Dino can be that guy for us.

 

[pacusewife]

Probably over optimistic but I feel like the big wins we’ve had with Dino so far kind of help me get through this crap I’m seeing now. Almost like, hey it’s possible, and I can obviously see the differences in those teams but that’s been mentioned a zillion times over various threads. I’m incapable of giving up, every game is a potential win no matter what my logical brain tells me.

What this program can’t handle is another coaching change, imo. Even if it stinks longer than it should.

 

[orangecuse]

I find it quite interesting that a coach with absolutely no track record of sustained success at the HC position is viewed here as some end all be all for the football program. He only had 4 years as a head coach prior to arriving at Syracuse. At Eastern Illinois he rode the coat tails of a future star NFL quarterback, and after he graduated, immediately left for Bowling Green. There, he simply maintained that status quo for two years of what Dave Claussen built. He has been a head coach at Syracuse at this stage longer than his totality of prior head coaching experience...at nearly 60 years of age. So again, absolutely zero track record of sustained success/building a program.

His overall record here is under .500 and it appears he is well on his way in YEAR 5 to further enhance that mark. So, for me, his "belief without evidence" has long worn off, as his record here speaks for itself, in that to date, he/his team has been consistently poor vs. "consistently good and occasionally great."

 

[ForeverOrange]

• OL, seems like we have had OL problems on and off since even Mcnabb's time. Just like Dungey, Mcnabb was able to hide the inefficiencies with the scrambles out of the pocket. I think the best line i've seen in a while was when we had Nassib. Baber's obviously knows the OL problems, as he has recruited to address this issue in the next class.
• So far, it appears he missed on his QB pick. Still time to change that but right now, it hasn't panned out.

We are like Cereal with no milk. We have a lot of talent spread throughout the team, but just not enough to make it complete. After 5 years, that falls on him. All that said, i'm still willing to hang in with him because one, Devito was a 4 star qb, so on paper he looked like the future. Secondly, I believe if given time, he will find the QB that will move this offense, and if we can keep our new defensive coordinator, things could change in the way we originally envisioned.

 

[44cuse]

I am not concerned that if Dino moves on or is moved on that we will never recover. Bad programs get rebuilt all the time.

As for my thoughts on will this get better - still undecided.

We've had 5 winning seasons in 20 years (approximately right)...I think that is evidence that, at least for us, it's difficult to rebuild a bad program.

44cuse

 

[SoBristol]

The O-line was bad & too young in 2019 and still too young in 2020, except for Servais. Add in Bleich and Dakota Davis in 2021, we at least have veterans in most spots. Need a L-OT but that line will have the maturity and size typical of ACC lines, and that alone is a big change for us (talent is another thing, obviously). The current class brings addition numbers and possibly some quality.

‘So, I would not focus as much on the OL problems (lack of veterans and size) that have plagued this unit.

‘We need a QB and a star WR with size. Do we have that in the pipeline, to be factors in 2021?

 

[baggerbob]

• OL, seems like we have had OL problems on and off since even Mcnabb's time. Just like Dungey, Mcnabb was able to hide the inefficiencies with the scrambles out of the pocket. I think the best line i've seen in a while was when we had Nassib. Baber's obviously knows the OL problems, as he has recruited to address this issue in the next class.
• So far, it appears he missed on his QB pick. Still time to change that but right now, it hasn't panned out.

We are like Cereal with no milk. We have a lot of talent spread throughout the team, but just not enough to make it complete. After 5 years, that falls on him. All that said, i'm still willing to hang in with him because one, Devito was a 4 star qb, so on paper he looked like the future. Secondly, I believe if given time, he will find the QB that will move this offense, and if we can keep our new defensive coordinator, things could change in the way we originally envisioned.

McNabb also had a fullback who was probably the best blocker on the team. Konrad also was a good outlet when McNabb scrambled.

 

[Orangejet]

Before we bail on Dino, let’s see what kind of job Hadley does at BC for he seems like something we may need moving forward...a young coach with an offensive mind who can recruit, say a Sean Lewis type head coach.

 

[721Comstock]

Before we bail on Dino, let’s see what kind of job Hadley does at BC for he seems like something we may need moving forward...a young coach with an offensive mind who can recruit, say a Sean Lewis type head coach.

BC isn’t rebuilding from a dumpster fire like what Dino started with.
As much grief as Dazzler got, they made bowl games almost every year, recruited decently, and routinely put guys into the NFL.
There’s talent and experience there.

We do exactly none of that.

As for BC’s ‘crootin - they are sorta Notre Dame East Lite, where they always get the Irish and/or Catholic kids who aren’t quite good enough for ND.
(example - QB Delaportas is a Catholic school kid we liked a lot, now a BC verbal)

 

[UelSU]

At this point, all I want from Syracuse football is to be bowl eligible every year. Surely, we can get a coach that can do that.

 

[RandomGuy]

BC isn’t rebuilding from a dumpster fire like what Dino started with.
As much grief as Dazzler got, they made bowl games almost every year, recruited decently, and routinely put guys into the NFL.
There’s talent and experience there.

We do exactly none of that.

As for BC’s ‘crootin - they are sorta Notre Dame East Lite, where they always get the Irish and/or Catholic kids who aren’t quite good enough for ND.
(example - QB Delaportas is a Catholic school kid we liked a lot, now a BC verbal)

At least for me, BC's "success" was from playing, and teaching fundamental football. If you can't get the top recruits, you can do all right by focusing on fundamental OLine play. (Yes. I'm a meat head...lol)

 

[721Comstock]

At this point, all I want from Syracuse football is to be bowl eligible every year. Surely, we can get a coach that can do that.

The past 2 decades say it ain’t that easy.

More so - since WWII, Syracuse Football has had 2 “golden eras” of about 15 years each:
Mid-50’s - late 60’s, and ‘87-‘01.

So - over 75 years we were very good for 30 years, and meh (at best) for 45 years.

Maybe we’re due?

 

[RandomGuy]

Positive. When tempo is functioning, it requires less skill to beat an opponent.

Negative. When tempo isn't functioning, it reveals shortcomings in basic fundamentals.

Per the linked article:

"This trend has stunted the progression of linemen from a technical standpoint—guys in spread offenses constantly line up in a two-point stance, almost regardless of the situation—and, more crucially, it’s eliminated the complexity that’s long been inherent to line play. By operating at such a ridiculously fast clip, college offenses have negated the importance of the blockers up front making specific identifications and picking up intricate blitzes, which are skills that continue to be vital in the pros.

“If you’re running a spread offense in the college game, almost nothing translates to the NFL,” former NFL offensive linemen and current SiriusXM and SB Nation analyst Geoff Schwartz says. “You’re running at such a high tempo that teams aren’t going to twist and blitz because you’re moving so fast. Defenders are so tired.”

Titans general manager Jon Robinson says that the goal of many college practices is “going for quantity,” with teams using that time as a way to hone their ability to move lightning fast come game day. "

The NFL’s Offensive Line Crisis Has No Single Diagnosis

Why has the league’s on-field product seemed lackluster at times in 2017? Look no further than a problem with multiple causes, and no easy solution.

www.google.com

 

[syrBossHogg]

Personally I want to wait til end of the season before doing a State of the Program evaluation. I admit things don't look good now, but sometimes all it takes is one great performance to feel confident again.

 

[sufandu]

I am not concerned that if Dino moves on or is moved on that we will never recover. Bad programs get rebuilt all the time.

As for my thoughts on will this get better - still undecided.

And formerly respected programs fall into oblivion.

 

[44cuse]

BC isn’t rebuilding from a dumpster fire like what Dino started with.
and routinely put guys into the NFL.
There’s talent and experience there.

We do exactly none of that.

Well...Riley Dixon is currently 3rd in the NFL in punts inside the 20 and is 5th in RETYDS allowed. And I'm sure Sterling Hofrichter would have known to dive on the onside kick yesterday against the Cowboys.

Wait...I guess I'm making your point.

44cuse

 

[jgeorge322]

i think were all foolish if we want to follow what every other bad program has done forever and fire a guy after 5 years. i say give him 10 and see what he can do. i honestly think it takes that long to build depth. i am confident dino is the guy that can get it done. he is willing to switch philosophies, if needed. he is a good role model. he spots talent well. this takes time.

 

[Newhouser]

And formerly respected programs fall into oblivion.

We are in oblivion.