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Post SU-BC thoughts

orangepassion

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  • Great win for what must be an exhausted team
  • How many games have we won in our history passing for 65 yards? Pretty crazy
  • All the credit in the world to the Defense, particularly on the goal line stand
  • More Kingsley Jonathan, please. I've thought it before this game, but he is definitely one of our 2 best DE's.
  • I would like to see our DL do a little bit more in the run game.
  • Stefon Thompson with another big game.
  • Hope Wax is okay, but if not, feel good having GCA out there. Think he's now had 2 games in a row w/o a 15-yard penalty : )
  • Great having Garrett Williams back there. Our CB's can really tackle
  • Interesting OL alignment with Vet out-Will be worth watching how they hold up in pass blocking when we need more points in future games. Definitely a good lineup for run blocking.
  • Tucker is a no-doubt stud, but I do wish we were a bit less predictable on 1st downs with the repeated Tucker runs up the middle. It seems our game plan every game is establish Tucker in the 1st half and open it up in the 2nd half if unsuccessful, but every team is gunning for him and he's usually more successful in the 2nd half when we're less predictable. It was fine against a team like BC that has trouble putting up points, but think we will need to be more aggressive against future opponents. Would like to utilize Shrader in the running game a little more in the 1st half on 1st downs to keep them honest. Utilizing the man in motion for the end around and slant passes there would also be nice.
  • This is an old story, but would like to see us get Benson involved in the passing game. Had one pass to him that was very off, but if we get it to him with a LB covering, think he can go a far way
  • I hold my breath every time James Williams punts the ball-Just very little hang time. Felt excited when their punter had one similar type of punt and Courtney took it the distance. Kudos to our punt coverage team for a fine job under difficult circumstances, but I'm nervous it's going to cost us in the future if we don't fix it.
  • Block of the game to the German Shepherd on Shrader's TD run
  • Had to have this game-BC is pretty bad w/o their QB. Just need 1 of 3 to bowl and Louisville looked vulnerable yesterday. Go Orange!
 
Last edited:
  • Great win for what must be an exhausted team
  • How many games have we won in our history passing for 65 yards? Pretty crazy
  • All the credit in the world to the Defense, particularly on the goal line stand
  • More Kingsley Jonathan, please. I've thought it before this game, but he is definitely one of our 2 best DE's.
  • I would like to see our DL due a little bit more in the run game.
  • Stefon Thompson with another big game.
  • Hope Wax is okay, but if not, feel good having GCA out there. Think he's now had 2 games in a row w/o a 15-yard penalty :)
  • Great having Garrett Williams back there. Our CB's can really tackle
  • Interesting OL alignment with Vet out-Will be worth watching how they hold up in pass blocking when we need more points in future games. Definitely a good lineup for run blocking.
  • Tucker is a no-doubt stud, but I do wish we were a bit less predictable on 1st downs with the repeated Tucker runs up the middle. It seems our game plan every game is establish Tucker in the 1st half and open it up in the 2nd half if unsuccessful, but every team is gunning for him and he's usually more successful in the 2nd half when we're less predictable. It was fine against a team like BC that has trouble putting up points, but think we will need to be more aggressive against future opponents. Would like to utilize Shrader in the running game a little more in the 1st half on 1st downs to keep them honest. Utilizing the man in motion for the end around and slant passes there would also be nice.
  • This is an old story, but would like to see us get Benson involved in the passing game. Had one pass to him that was very off, but if we get it to him with a LB covering, think he can go a far way
  • I hold my breath every time James Williams punts the ball-Just very little hang time. Felt excited when their punter had one similar type of punt and Courtney took it the distance. Kudos to our punt coverage team for a fine job under difficult circumstances, but I'm nervous it's going to cost us in the future if we can't fix it up.
  • Block of the game to the German Shepherd on Shrader's TD run
  • Had to have this game-BC is pretty bad w/o their QB. Just need 1 of 3 to bowl and Louisville looked vulnerable yesterday. Go Orange!
Great point regarding Benson. It simply blows my mind that they don't use him at all. He has tremendous speed and could easily turn a short pitch and catch into a home run.
 
Laces in, is still very much a thing.
Really need to work on this during the break.

Benson has to be the most selfless kid on the team.
 
Plays we used to run successfully but no longer try: middle screen and throwback to TE.
 
Would love to see a bootleg pass on 1st down. Shrader seems to be able to throw on the run. Seems like with two running threats, the pass would be open.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it down the stretch. Coaches sometimes hold things like that back while building strong tendencies (like Tucker up the middle on 1st down, 90% of the time).
 
  • Great win for what must be an exhausted team
  • How many games have we won in our history passing for 65 yards? Pretty crazy
  • All the credit in the world to the Defense, particularly on the goal line stand
  • More Kingsley Jonathan, please. I've thought it before this game, but he is definitely one of our 2 best DE's.
  • I would like to see our DL due a little bit more in the run game.
  • Stefon Thompson with another big game.
  • Hope Wax is okay, but if not, feel good having GCA out there. Think he's now had 2 games in a row w/o a 15-yard penalty :)
  • Great having Garrett Williams back there. Our CB's can really tackle
  • Interesting OL alignment with Vet out-Will be worth watching how they hold up in pass blocking when we need more points in future games. Definitely a good lineup for run blocking.
  • Tucker is a no-doubt stud, but I do wish we were a bit less predictable on 1st downs with the repeated Tucker runs up the middle. It seems our game plan every game is establish Tucker in the 1st half and open it up in the 2nd half if unsuccessful, but every team is gunning for him and he's usually more successful in the 2nd half when we're less predictable. It was fine against a team like BC that has trouble putting up points, but think we will need to be more aggressive against future opponents. Would like to utilize Shrader in the running game a little more in the 1st half on 1st downs to keep them honest. Utilizing the man in motion for the end around and slant passes there would also be nice.
  • This is an old story, but would like to see us get Benson involved in the passing game. Had one pass to him that was very off, but if we get it to him with a LB covering, think he can go a far way
  • I hold my breath every time James Williams punts the ball-Just very little hang time. Felt excited when their punter had one similar type of punt and Courtney took it the distance. Kudos to our punt coverage team for a fine job under difficult circumstances, but I'm nervous it's going to cost us in the future if we can't fix it up.
  • Block of the game to the German Shepherd on Shrader's TD run
  • Had to have this game-BC is pretty bad w/o their QB. Just need 1 of 3 to bowl and Louisville looked vulnerable yesterday. Go Orange!
Agree some with the first down predictability but I think we are seeing also a change in mindset. I think we are looking to impose our running "will " on teams. Maybe wrong but I like the physical mentality. Bergeron, Ellis, Servais, Bleich and Davis. With Elmore and Mang. That is a physical group and it's been a long time coming.
 
Laces in, is still very much a thing.
Really need to work on this during the break.

Benson has to be the most selfless kid on the team.
He also made a great (mostly unnoticed) play on the fumble at the goal line. He sprinted past the ball carrier and his caravan of blockers and helped turn the play back in where team mates could make the tackle.
 
I'm not too concerned with other teams focusing on Tucker. It hasn't worked yet. Plus, I recall BC had a really good RB a couple years ago. Everyone knew it. Everyone tried to stop him. No one could.
 
Agree some with the first down predictability but I think we are seeing also a change in mindset. I think we are looking to impose our running "will " on teams. Maybe wrong but I like the physical mentality. Bergeron, Ellis, Servais, Bleich and Davis. With Elmore and Mang. That is a physical group and it's been a long time coming.

No offense, but - we are nowhere near good enough to “impose our will” on an ACC opponent for an entire game.

We failed miserably at that for the entire 1st half yesterday.
At one point they put up a stat -
We had 11 rushes for… 11 yards. Total.

It was really only at the end of the 4th where we got to the “we’re gonna run it every down, and you can’t stop us” mode.

Why bludgeon ourselves against a brick wall, when with a little misdirection we can get better results?

Play-action passing or RPO off of fakes to Tucker should be like taking candy from a baby.
We did some of this vs. Wake - with Tucker and the whole OL going Student Body Left, while Shrader bootlegged around to the right, and was often all alone, with room to run OR pass off of that action.

And then once Wake was like Oh SHTT, we’d better cover that!, then we still showed that action, only Tucker had the ball with a caravan of blockers in front.

Also - one failed pass attempt to Benson per game is criminal.
Dude is WIDE OPEN, and if Shrader didn’t overthrow him so badly Shaq couldn’t catch that, he’d have gotten BIG yardage.
 
No offense, but - we are nowhere near good enough to “impose our will” on an ACC opponent for an entire game.

We failed miserably at that for the entire 1st half yesterday.
At one point they put up a stat -
We had 11 rushes for… 11 yards. Total.

It was really only at the end of the 4th where we got to the “we’re gonna run it every down, and you can’t stop us” mode.

Why bludgeon ourselves against a brick wall, when with a little misdirection we can get better results?

Play-action passing or RPO off of fakes to Tucker should be like taking candy from a baby.
We did some of this vs. Wake - with Tucker and the whole OL going Student Body Left, while Shrader bootlegged around to the right, and was often all alone, with room to run OR pass off of that action.

And then once Wake was like Oh SHTT, we’d better cover that!, then we still showed that action, only Tucker had the ball with a caravan of blockers in front.

Also - one failed pass attempt to Benson per game is criminal.
Dude is WIDE OPEN, and if Shrader didn’t overthrow him so badly Shaq couldn’t catch that, he’d have gotten BIG yardage.
Very first snap of UM-MSU game yesterday was a Spartans play action pass; and they have a good running back too.
 
No offense, but - we are nowhere near good enough to “impose our will” on an ACC opponent for an entire game.

We failed miserably at that for the entire 1st half yesterday.
At one point they put up a stat -
We had 11 rushes for… 11 yards. Total.

It was really only at the end of the 4th where we got to the “we’re gonna run it every down, and you can’t stop us” mode.

Why bludgeon ourselves against a brick wall, when with a little misdirection we can get better results?

Play-action passing or RPO off of fakes to Tucker should be like taking candy from a baby.
We did some of this vs. Wake - with Tucker and the whole OL going Student Body Left, while Shrader bootlegged around to the right, and was often all alone, with room to run OR pass off of that action.

And then once Wake was like Oh SHTT, we’d better cover that!, then we still showed that action, only Tucker had the ball with a caravan of blockers in front.

Also - one failed pass attempt to Benson per game is criminal.
Dude is WIDE OPEN, and if Shrader didn’t overthrow him so badly Shaq couldn’t catch that, he’d have gotten BIG yardage.

To be fair, that rushing total counted sacks. Tucker had a pretty strong line at that point of the game.

The biggest thing is, when you have a strong running game, you do have to take some 2 and 3 yard runs early. You are trying to tire the defense so those same 2-3 yard runs become 6 and 7 yard runs later in the game. This OL was 100 % designed to run block. I think the pass blocking struggles showed themselves when Shrader set back to pass.

Struggles with the run game against BC in the 1st half were due to 2 factors:

1) OL with players playing new positions
2) No Chris Elmore

OL adjusted and was much better in the 2nd half, as Dino alluded to. With no Elmore, you can tell they struggled to design the 2 v 2 plays that Shrader got a lot of his yards on. Mang has come along, but isn't yet to where Elmore is in 1 v 1 blocking (and wouldn't have expected him to be either).

I agree with the lack of moving the pocket against BC. I wonder if that was due to Davis inexperience at RT and didn't want him to be the only guy to seal the edge to let Shrader roll that way and find Alford on the crossing route? Elmore was also a big factor in them sealing the edge on the roll outs to the right we saw against Wake.

Benson is tough in this offense. He is a downfield threat, but the worst blocker of the 3 TE's. For as much as the fan base loves Benson, he hasn't consistently created that separation against ACC caliber defenders to show up in the stats (at some point, it becomes more than a QB issue). I liked the play action to him in the flat with the QB rolling out to his side, but that play has seemed to have gone away with Shrader taking over at QB.

If Benson has to be on the field in 2 TE looks with Mang and Elmore's injury is serious, I do wonder if the bye week lets them come up with something for Benson in the pass game.
 
  • I would like to see our DL do a little bit more in the run game.
I think the DL is designed to be invisible against the run. I could be wrong, but I think the purpose of them is to take a double teams and let LB's fly into their lanes to get the stops. Unsung heroes if you will.

You saw McKinley blow up a few plays with his initial "get" off the ball. I do like the stunts they do up front to get Stefon and Marlowe pass rush opportunities.

With the DL designed to handle double teams, I am 100 % shocked that Fuentes has not jumped Darton. Maybe a redshirt issue or Darton is doing the things the coaching staff want in the DL rotation, just surprising to me.
 
No offense, but - we are nowhere near good enough to “impose our will” on an ACC opponent for an entire game.

We failed miserably at that for the entire 1st half yesterday.
At one point they put up a stat -
We had 11 rushes for… 11 yards. Total.

It was really only at the end of the 4th where we got to the “we’re gonna run it every down, and you can’t stop us” mode.

Why bludgeon ourselves against a brick wall, when with a little misdirection we can get better results?

Play-action passing or RPO off of fakes to Tucker should be like taking candy from a baby.
We did some of this vs. Wake - with Tucker and the whole OL going Student Body Left, while Shrader bootlegged around to the right, and was often all alone, with room to run OR pass off of that action.

And then once Wake was like Oh SHTT, we’d better cover that!, then we still showed that action, only Tucker had the ball with a caravan of blockers in front.

Also - one failed pass attempt to Benson per game is criminal.
Dude is WIDE OPEN, and if Shrader didn’t overthrow him so badly Shaq couldn’t catch that, he’d have gotten BIG yardage.
No offense taken. I thought the post I was responding to was around how predictable our first down calls were early in the game. Early in the game when you have one of the best running games in the country, it's not possible to play your game and try to be the more physical team? Based on what I was responding to, I absolutely believe we may have been doing that.
In regards to misdirection I one hundred percent agree with you. Some misdirection is always helpful.
 

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