Pre Duke Thoughts | Syracusefan.com

Pre Duke Thoughts

General20

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Everybody has their own reason for why they hate Duke. Mine is philosophical. Over the history of basketball there have been many players and teams who got calls they shouldn't have, but Duke is the only team I can think of (in any sport) that actually structured their game plan around getting calls other teams don't.


Its rare to find a college age player who is both an exceptional athlete and an exceptional shooter, and when you do find one, you know they are not going to stay in college very long. Generally coaches have to choose what percentage of shooters they want to recruit, and what percentage of athletes. Coach K, always recruits the shooter. You will never see a great shot blocker who brings little offense, or an athletic guard who can't shoot playing for Duke. They always have the benefit of five highly skilled offensive players on the court. This should mean that they pay for it defensively, but they haven't. So how has Duke managed to be an above average defensive team for years, with unathletic guards, little size, and no shot blockers? Of course, we all know the answer. Flopping.


We have all seen Greg Paulus or Wojo playing pressure defense and over-playing passing lanes like Gary Payton. Any time you apply that much pressure you are going to force a few turnovers. The problem, of course, is, neither Greg Paulus or Wojo (or Cook or Dawkins on this years team) are elite athletes like Gary Payton was, and opposing guards blow past them with regularity. Without the benefit of a shot blocker, Duke's response has always been to post a player in the lane and have him flop, and its worked.


For years Coach K has been able to have his cake and eat it too, by recruiting highly skilled offensive players, and having them play pressure defense they are not athletic enough excel at, because officials consistently bail them out with offensive fouls that are not really fouls but flops. I'm sure no coach in the game would turn down the advantages Duke has, but I like to think few coaches would go as far as completely structuring their defense towards exploiting those kinds of calls.


Long story short, I don't have a lot of respect for Coach K's accomplishments. I do, however, have a tremendous amount of respect for his ability to teach basketball. Whether you hate Duke (or really hate Duke) you have to admit that year in and year out their players do an exceptional job of executing the game plan Coach K has for them. As good a teacher of the game as Jamie Dixon is, Coach K is better - in fact, he is the best – and he has a week to teach his players how to best attack Syracuse.


All coaches at the college level have game plans that will work in theory. Team's lose for two reasons. Either the coach cannot teach the players what he wants them to do effectively, or the players are not able to physically execute the game plan.


There are two things I know about Duke. One, Coach K will do a great job teaching his players how to execute against Syracuse. Two, Duke's players have the skill and talent necessary to execute his game plan.


This leads me to one inescapable conclusion. Duke is almost definitely going to score a bunch of points on Syracuse. They are built perfectly for it. They are arguably the best shooting team in the country. They will have four or five shooters on the court at all times. They will spread us out. All their players are skilled enough to handle the ball, or pass, and basically make the proper play in the space they will be given (space SU will have to give them if Syracuse plans on covering all Duke's shooters).


Syracuse is going to have to score efficiently and go relatively drought free on offense, like they needed to (and did) against Pittsburgh, if they want to win. If the game is a blow out, I'm afraid Duke will be the winning team, and the cause will be poor shooting and a long offensive drought by Syracuse.


The really interesting match up in this game is Syracuse's offense against Duke's defense. This is an especially interesting year for Duke's defense in general, because fewer charges are being called. Who would have thought that boring basketball games (and low ratings) would derail Duke? For me its great to see Coach K finally pay the tab for recruiting a bunch of shooters who are not suited to play defense. I believe this is by far the most talented Duke team in decades, yet they have four losses (including two bad ones to Clemson and Notre Dame) because early in the year, they didn't play any defense at all.


But everything changed for Duke four games ago. In that four game winning streak, no team came within 15 points (their average margin of victory is 23) and nobody scored more than 65 points (their average number of points allowed is 56).


So it seems like Duke has cured their defensive woes, but after taking a close look, I am not so sure that is the case.


Pitt shot 41% from the field which is not great, but they shot 41% from three, and got to the free throw line 24 times, which makes for a good overall offensive performance. Duke won, not because of their defense, but because their offense went absolutely crazy hitting 52% from three even though they shot 25 of them.


Florida State shot 50% from the field against Duke but still managed to lose by 20 mostly because Duke shot an INSANE 43 free throws (home cooking?).


NC State lost to duke by a whopping 35 points but shot 48% from the field which is way above their season average. Again, Duke's offense went crazy, shooting 50% from the field and 46% from three.


Miami is the only team out of the four to put up poor offensive numbers, but Miami has yet to put up good offensive numbers at any point this season (including games against mid majors, several of which they lost) so I'm not sure how much credit you can give to Duke's defense.


From a superficial perspective Duke's defense looks to have improved, and it has improved from the abomination it was early in the year, but its still not very good. Their winning streak has mostly been the product of unbelievably good, record-breaking offense.


As an interesting side note, Syracuse has played unbelievably good, record-breaking defense. So what happens when an unbelievably good, record-breaking offense plays an unbelievably good, record-breaking defense? If you can figure out the answer to that question you can make a lot of money this weekend, because you will know how both the SU/Duke game and the Super Bowl play out. I see a lot of similarities between the two games.


Back to my original point, Duke still does not play very good defense. Their guards (and their forwards) are going to pressure the ball (and not get many turnovers out of it thanks to Tyler Ennis) and they can be beat to the basket where flopping does not get called like it once did and Duke has no shot blocker. I expect Ennis, Fair, and Grant to take the ball to the hole with regularity, and I expect them to draw a lot of fouls and generally have success.


Keys to the Game:


Duke's three point shooting. Its safe to say they are going to take a lot of threes and make a lot of threes, but we need to hope they only make thirty to forty percent. When you shoot close to (or over) fifty percent from three, like Duke did against Pitt, you aren't going to lose often.


Syracuse's Free Throw Shooting. Syracuse fans have been worrying about losing games at the free throw line ever since it cost us a title in '87. The funny thing is, we have lost maybe 1 or 2 games that way in the 28 years since. The best free throw shooting teams never turn out to be the best teams, and I happen to think free throw shooting causes way too much needless worry for fans. But in this game it might be very important. I am assuming that Duke scores a lot, and I am assuming Syracuse drives the lane a lot and as a result gets fouled a lot. If those two assumptions are true, Syracuse can't afford lost possessions due to missed free throws. They need to keep hitting from the line, and keep scoring, if they are going to win. Jerami Grant is especially likely to get to the line, so I see his free throw shooting as especially important.


Rebounding. Syracuse is probably going to have to win the rebounding battle to win the game. They can't afford to give Duke many second chance points, and Duke can be prone to giving up offensive boards which is something Syracuse is exceptionally good at exploiting.


Predictions:


It will take 70 points to win this game. This is a bold prediction considering nobody since Nova has even gotten into the 60's against us, and only Cal and Fordham early in the year got above 70.


Cooney spreads the defense, but doesn't get a lot of shots. Syracuse's offense will be focused on scoring around the basket.


Christmas scores in double figures.
 
On a side note I can't wait until K retires and somebody gets some ex-players t0 go on record in detail about how they were taught to flop. It has to happen right?
 
There is one thing that keeps me optimistic going into games like this, and that is, the past few years we almost always seem to play our best basketball against the better teams.

The one variable that bothers me is the officiating (Ohio State).
 
I'm very curious to see how far out JB has the zone extended to start the game.
 
There is one thing that keeps me optimistic going into games like this, and that is, the past few years we almost always seem to play our best basketball against the better teams.

The one variable that bothers me is the officiating (Ohio State).
(and we'll just forget about the 2 g'town games last year ;))
 
There is one thing that keeps me optimistic going into games like this, and that is, the past few years we almost always seem to play our best basketball against the better teams.

The one variable that bothers me is the officiating (Ohio State).

Without Fab that was going to be a tough game either way. I do feel like there is some truth to the NCAA not being pleased at the thought of us being in the FF because of the fine mess and that combined with the refs over reacting after calling a pretty bad second foul on Sullinger sunk us. Dion being off the court in foul trouble really hurt us in that game as did Baye/Rak getting zero respect from the refs. Still if they get the call right on Brandon's drive we are right there much like last year against Mich.
 
2 keys -

1- extend the zone. guard the 3 pt line from the opening tip. dont collapse on parker, make him beat us with 2s. stay with the shooters.

2 - hustle plays. we were all over the court in the north carolina game. diving on the floor, crashing the boards, fighting for every loose ball/rebound. i wanna see that same type of aggression and urgency.
 
I'm very curious to see how far out JB has the zone extended to start the game.

I think Syracuse starts the game the way they always start the game, with their guys extending to the three point line but no further. They won't extend deeper unless somebody gets hot from deep and they need to. There is no doubt that somebody from Duke is going to make a bunch of shots against us. I just hope multiple guys don't.

I should have wrote this in the predictions, but when Syracuse does extend out on shoots their center is going to have to cover some pretty great offensive players in space. Keita is better suited to do this, but it would be nice if Christmas could, because we can definitely use his scoring and rebounding. It will be interesting to see who gets more minutes between Keita and Christmas.
 
Keys to the game:

Duke's three point shooting. Its safe to say they are going to take a lot of threes and make a lot of threes, but we need to hope they only make thirty to forty percent. When you shoot close to (or over) fifty percent from three, like Duke did against Pitt, you aren't going to lose often.


Syracuse's Free Throw Shooting. Syracuse fans have been worrying about losing games at the free throw line ever since it cost us a title in '87.

Rebounding. Syracuse is probably going to have to win the rebounding battle to win the game. They can't afford to give Duke many second chance points, and Duke can be prone to giving up offensive boards which is something Syracuse is exceptionally good at exploiting.


Predictions:

It will take 70 points to win this game. This is a bold prediction considering nobody since Nova has even gotten into the 60's against us, and only Cal and Fordham early in the year got above 70.

Cooney spreads the defense, but doesn't get a lot of shots. Syracuse's offense will be focused on scoring around the basket.

Christmas scores in double figures.


I agree. Duke is going to score against us, and Parker is probably going to score a lot inside once they get the zone extended to cover Quinn and their other shooters. I think Duke starts out with 3 forwards so we don't kill them on the boards, like they did at the start of the Pitt game. Later on, if they get a lead, they will revert to their preferred 3 guard offense to try to kill us off.

In my opinion, the keys to the game are (1) Cooney hitting some shots, like 4 or 5 threes; and (b) Christmas staying out of foul trouble against Parker's drives along the baseline.

I also hope they call fouls on Duke when they impede players on the pick and roll. They do that every game and it never gets called.
 
Keys to the Game:


Duke's three point shooting. Its safe to say they are going to take a lot of threes and make a lot of threes, but we need to hope they only make thirty to forty percent. When you shoot close to (or over) fifty percent from three, like Duke did against Pitt, you aren't going to lose often.


Syracuse's Free Throw Shooting. Syracuse fans have been worrying about losing games at the free throw line ever since it cost us a title in '87. The funny thing is, we have lost maybe 1 or 2 games that way in the 28 years since. The best free throw shooting teams never turn out to be the best teams, and I happen to think free throw shooting causes way too much needless worry for fans. But in this game it might be very important. I am assuming that Duke scores a lot, and I am assuming Syracuse drives the lane a lot and as a result gets fouled a lot. If those two assumptions are true, Syracuse can't afford lost possessions due to missed free throws. They need to keep hitting from the line, and keep scoring, if they are going to win. Jerami Grant is especially likely to get to the line, so I see his free throw shooting as especially important.


Rebounding. Syracuse is probably going to have to win the rebounding battle to win the game. They can't afford to give Duke many second chance points, and Duke can be prone to giving up offensive boards which is something Syracuse is exceptionally good at exploiting.

Several points:

1. We lost games at the foul line before '87. We were well known for it. I have vivid memories of sitting in the Super Dome with a fomer roommate when DC went to the foul line with :19 left.
We both knew what would happen. And it did. I was also at the infamous Ron Rowan game when we shot 7 of 12 from the line. It wasn't just Walter Berry's last second bock that cost us that one.

We cannot shoot 66% from the foul line as we did against Wake and expect to win. Our bigs should be drawing a lot of fouls and they need to make the shots.

2. Your key points are correct. I would add a couple.

4. We clobbered Wake on the glass and they went 3 of 20 on 3-pointers. Yes, stats can be misleading. But we should have buried them based on those numbers alone. So we must shoot better and go to the hoop.

5. Turnovers: We must win this battle. We must force some Duke turnovers. We only got 8 against Wake. And Duke likely will pressure the ball more than any team we've seen this season.
TE must handle the pressure...avoid foul trouble and go to the hoop more often earlier in the game. I think that could open up our offense considerably.
 
It will be interesting to see who gets more minutes between Keita and Christmas.
This will be an interesting metric. I think more Xmas if we're on top, more Keita if we need to adjust to them (due to offensive efficiency a/o foul trouble on Xmas).

I also believe Jerami could have a monster game given what I understand is an absence of athletic / otherwise impressive post defenders.
 
Excellent write up. I'm just not optimistic we can the offense going enough to overcome that many good shooters (e.g. Creighton vs Nova) as I don't see the urgency that will be necessary to win this game. This will probably be the beginning of a slump that we were bound to hit with such a limited rotation. However I'm still confident that we will, worst case, we wind up with the 2 seed in east where the contracted lineup will not be issue .. we will save the best for last.

Once again I salute the General!
 
This was a fun read and nice analysis of Duke's success this year. The only thing I would add ... is that Duke's devastating outside shooting against Pitt opened up the inside -- and Duke started running pick and rolls and scoring inside in the second half.

I agree that Duke will ball-pressure and play TC to shoot. So .. if as expected Cooney's not getting a lot of good looks, MG might get more minutes b/c of his height on Duke's shooters. His handle's not perfect but he'll be sky high to play well against Duke.

I also like the idea of turning the 'foul' strategy against Duke ... and constantly driving the lane to exploit their lack of a shot-blocker. And I don't think a slower pace will hurt SU .. since limiting Duke's possessions means fewer points and scoring opportunities. A grinder suits us better.
 
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I know it will be in a limited role, but I'm VERY concerned about G handling the ball against their pressure. When G is in the game we need to clear the rebounds (or makes) out as quickly as possible and get the ball across half court. G can't get his pocket picked, leading to easy Duke runouts.

I love your writeups every time but I wish you'd make an actual prediction as to which team will win.
 
I know it will be in a limited role, but I'm VERY concerned about G handling the ball against their pressure. When G is in the game we need to clear the rebounds (or makes) out as quickly as possible and get the ball across half court. G can't get his pocket picked, leading to easy Duke runouts.

I agree, and my guess is Cooney does more ball handling than Gbinije when they are in the game together (which I think will only be about two minutes tops).
 
Luke Winn had some real nice screen caps awhile ago that showed teams defending the three (and failing) because the defenders were within the arc. Then he showed SU against UNC where an SU defender was on or beyond the arc (with hands up) on nearly every three that UNC shot. It'd be interesting to see where Pitt, FSU, and NC State were defending Duke's shooters.

Duke has good shooters, but if teams aren't pushing them out, then they're going to continue to make a high percentage of shots. Rak, Grant, and Keita have to be exceptionally careful with their shot blocking to not commit 12 fouls before the end of the game. If Duke gets free shots in the paint through either free throws or timid defense (to prevent fouls), they're going to win even if Ennis, Cooney and Fair are pushing the shooters out to half court.
 
I agree. Duke is going to score against us, and Parker is probably going to score a lot inside once they get the zone extended to cover Quinn and their other shooters.

I agree. I think Parker is going to have a monster game as their shooters open up tons of scoring opportunities for Parker. With that said, in the past we have had reasonable success by letting one player on the opposing team go off while keeping the rest of the team fairly quiet.
 
There's a lot of silly threads going on so just wanted to bump this one to make sure people saw it. Great job General!
 
Everybody has their own reason for why they hate Duke. Mine is philosophical. Over the history of basketball there have been many players and teams who got calls they shouldn't have, but Duke is the only team I can think of (in any sport) that actually structured their game plan around getting calls other teams don't.


Its rare to find a college age player who is both an exceptional athlete and an exceptional shooter, and when you do find one, you know they are not going to stay in college very long. Generally coaches have to choose what percentage of shooters they want to recruit, and what percentage of athletes. Coach K, always recruits the shooter. You will never see a great shot blocker who brings little offense, or an athletic guard who can't shoot playing for Duke. They always have the benefit of five highly skilled offensive players on the court. This should mean that they pay for it defensively, but they haven't. So how has Duke managed to be an above average defensive team for years, with unathletic guards, little size, and no shot blockers? Of course, we all know the answer. Flopping.


We have all seen Greg Paulus or Wojo playing pressure defense and over-playing passing lanes like Gary Payton. Any time you apply that much pressure you are going to force a few turnovers. The problem, of course, is, neither Greg Paulus or Wojo (or Cook or Dawkins on this years team) are elite athletes like Gary Payton was, and opposing guards blow past them with regularity. Without the benefit of a shot blocker, Duke's response has always been to post a player in the lane and have him flop, and its worked.


For years Coach K has been able to have his cake and eat it too, by recruiting highly skilled offensive players, and having them play pressure defense they are not athletic enough excel at, because officials consistently bail them out with offensive fouls that are not really fouls but flops. I'm sure no coach in the game would turn down the advantages Duke has, but I like to think few coaches would go as far as completely structuring their defense towards exploiting those kinds of calls.


Long story short, I don't have a lot of respect for Coach K's accomplishments. I do, however, have a tremendous amount of respect for his ability to teach basketball. Whether you hate Duke (or really hate Duke) you have to admit that year in and year out their players do an exceptional job of executing the game plan Coach K has for them. As good a teacher of the game as Jamie Dixon is, Coach K is better - in fact, he is the best – and he has a week to teach his players how to best attack Syracuse.


All coaches at the college level have game plans that will work in theory. Team's lose for two reasons. Either the coach cannot teach the players what he wants them to do effectively, or the players are not able to physically execute the game plan.


There are two things I know about Duke. One, Coach K will do a great job teaching his players how to execute against Syracuse. Two, Duke's players have the skill and talent necessary to execute his game plan.


This leads me to one inescapable conclusion. Duke is almost definitely going to score a bunch of points on Syracuse. They are built perfectly for it. They are arguably the best shooting team in the country. They will have four or five shooters on the court at all times. They will spread us out. All their players are skilled enough to handle the ball, or pass, and basically make the proper play in the space they will be given (space SU will have to give them if Syracuse plans on covering all Duke's shooters).


Syracuse is going to have to score efficiently and go relatively drought free on offense, like they needed to (and did) against Pittsburgh, if they want to win. If the game is a blow out, I'm afraid Duke will be the winning team, and the cause will be poor shooting and a long offensive drought by Syracuse.


The really interesting match up in this game is Syracuse's offense against Duke's defense. This is an especially interesting year for Duke's defense in general, because fewer charges are being called. Who would have thought that boring basketball games (and low ratings) would derail Duke? For me its great to see Coach K finally pay the tab for recruiting a bunch of shooters who are not suited to play defense. I believe this is by far the most talented Duke team in decades, yet they have four losses (including two bad ones to Clemson and Notre Dame) because early in the year, they didn't play any defense at all.


But everything changed for Duke four games ago. In that four game winning streak, no team came within 15 points (their average margin of victory is 23) and nobody scored more than 65 points (their average number of points allowed is 56).


So it seems like Duke has cured their defensive woes, but after taking a close look, I am not so sure that is the case.


Pitt shot 41% from the field which is not great, but they shot 41% from three, and got to the free throw line 24 times, which makes for a good overall offensive performance. Duke won, not because of their defense, but because their offense went absolutely crazy hitting 52% from three even though they shot 25 of them.


Florida State shot 50% from the field against Duke but still managed to lose by 20 mostly because Duke shot an INSANE 43 free throws (home cooking?).


NC State lost to duke by a whopping 35 points but shot 48% from the field which is way above their season average. Again, Duke's offense went crazy, shooting 50% from the field and 46% from three.


Miami is the only team out of the four to put up poor offensive numbers, but Miami has yet to put up good offensive numbers at any point this season (including games against mid majors, several of which they lost) so I'm not sure how much credit you can give to Duke's defense.


From a superficial perspective Duke's defense looks to have improved, and it has improved from the abomination it was early in the year, but its still not very good. Their winning streak has mostly been the product of unbelievably good, record-breaking offense.


As an interesting side note, Syracuse has played unbelievably good, record-breaking defense. So what happens when an unbelievably good, record-breaking offense plays an unbelievably good, record-breaking defense? If you can figure out the answer to that question you can make a lot of money this weekend, because you will know how both the SU/Duke game and the Super Bowl play out. I see a lot of similarities between the two games.


Back to my original point, Duke still does not play very good defense. Their guards (and their forwards) are going to pressure the ball (and not get many turnovers out of it thanks to Tyler Ennis) and they can be beat to the basket where flopping does not get called like it once did and Duke has no shot blocker. I expect Ennis, Fair, and Grant to take the ball to the hole with regularity, and I expect them to draw a lot of fouls and generally have success.


Keys to the Game:


Duke's three point shooting. Its safe to say they are going to take a lot of threes and make a lot of threes, but we need to hope they only make thirty to forty percent. When you shoot close to (or over) fifty percent from three, like Duke did against Pitt, you aren't going to lose often.


Syracuse's Free Throw Shooting. Syracuse fans have been worrying about losing games at the free throw line ever since it cost us a title in '87. The funny thing is, we have lost maybe 1 or 2 games that way in the 28 years since. The best free throw shooting teams never turn out to be the best teams, and I happen to think free throw shooting causes way too much needless worry for fans. But in this game it might be very important. I am assuming that Duke scores a lot, and I am assuming Syracuse drives the lane a lot and as a result gets fouled a lot. If those two assumptions are true, Syracuse can't afford lost possessions due to missed free throws. They need to keep hitting from the line, and keep scoring, if they are going to win. Jerami Grant is especially likely to get to the line, so I see his free throw shooting as especially important.


Rebounding. Syracuse is probably going to have to win the rebounding battle to win the game. They can't afford to give Duke many second chance points, and Duke can be prone to giving up offensive boards which is something Syracuse is exceptionally good at exploiting.


Predictions:


It will take 70 points to win this game. This is a bold prediction considering nobody since Nova has even gotten into the 60's against us, and only Cal and Fordham early in the year got above 70.


Cooney spreads the defense, but doesn't get a lot of shots. Syracuse's offense will be focused on scoring around the basket.


Christmas scores in double figures.
Thanks for the analysis! I really enjoy your breakdown of these games! I've been waiting for it since the WakeF victory. Please keep it up. Thank you again!
 
"I believe this is by far the most talented Duke team in decades."

How many decades? Their national titles came in 1991, 1992, 2001 and 2010.
 
SWC75 said:
"I believe this is by far the most talented Duke team in decades."

How many decades? Their national titles came in 1991, 1992, 2001 and 2010.

I don't agree with that assessment either. And to say you have no respect for Coach K accomplishments because they have been earned by flopping?! Sure, none of us like the flopping that Duke has done but that is minor when it comes to how their teams have done overall. And we have only lost 1 or 2 times since the '87 game due to poor free throw shooting?! I'm certain poor free throw shooting has been involved in many more losses than that. I enjoy your writeups General but gotta disagree with those points.

One of my biggest concerns tomorrow is Grant's 3 point defense. It has been horrible often this year as he is continually out of position. We can't afford that tomorrow. I think we need to drive the basket over and over again as they don't have the shot blocker as you pointed out. That is their one main area of weakness - we need to take advantage of it. This is a game Ennis needs to look to score. We win with De though and we can do it again tomorrow. Let's Go Orange!
 

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